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Why is everyone so quiet? Why is the average user so uninvolved?

TaoOfSatoshi said:
Seriously? I think you need to watch this (my segment starts at 5min:30sec):
Click to expand...

Ha, I had no idea Red Sox Nation was one of the influences for your idea, it was the first thing I thought of though when I first heard the term "Dash Nation". Being from the northeast US myself, and a baseball fan, it's a term I'm quite familiar with.
 
Dash and dash nation is not the same thing.

There is already a bitnation.

Nation states are bringing doom wherever they are. Being alternative for them is only a good thing.
 
Comodore said:
Dash and dash nation is not the same thing.

There is already a bitnation.

Nation states are bringing doom wherever they are. Being alternative for them is only a good thing.
Click to expand...


You are wrong. States may bring doom whenever they are.
But the lack of state will bring doom.

Nations are the result of a state, but you cannot blame nations for the doom that is caused by states.

P.S. please someone to fix the javascript errors occuring in my profile.
 
@GreyGhost You take issue with the word 'nation' but 'sovereign' and 'collective' pass muster?

@demo How can the Dash budget system be a tax if nobody puts a gun to my head if I decide to opt out?

@rustycase Do you really think use of a word would incur 'decisive action' from a nation state or would it more likely be a convenient pretext for punishment of disobedient slaves that dared to abandon their paper currency? Although... The people that do business as 'government' *did* get pretty tetchy about use of the word 'dollar'... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_von_NotHaus

But, to get back on topic, I think there can be a positive aspect to forum quietness - everyone is going about their business without issue.
 
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Voluntary said:
@demo How can the Dash budget system be a tax if nobody puts a gun to my head if I decide to opt out?
Click to expand...

You can also opt out from your state, if you want to avoid taxes. But as long as you live into an area that your state controls, you are obliged to pay taxes, and the same happens to dash also.

If you dont pay taxes and you live in a state, the state has to put a gun in your head to take them. If you live in dash nation they dont put the gun in you head, simply because they take the taxes anyway, and you are unable to avoid taxation because taxation is written in the protocol of dash.

The problem is not that dash has taxes, the problem is that dash dont let masternode owners to decide the amount of taxes (means dash prohibits voting with numbers and the 10% tax is a hardcoded number)
 
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@demo Are you honestly arguing that MN owners should decide how much they're paid? What do you think that would achieve?

Also, as I don't mine Dash, what you refer to as a tax doesn't have any impact on me. But, if I did mine, any income I received would have been generated by the Dash protocol, so this is quite unlike the parasitic nation state.
 
"Why is the average user so uninvolved?"

Because getting involved means you're no longer an average user. And that means you're a target for those who then have a guilt fetish about being lazy, but want to knock down the useful, instead of get off their asses. It's the popular attitude to be a Social Justice Warrior Victim-Status whiner who just sits around getting free shit, declaring it sexist/racist/ageist/whatever that the free shit is insufficient buy them a new Mercedes every week....

Realize what an "average user" of crypto is, and it's not confusing at all. SJW + Ponzi.

Speaking of, what's with the moon getting closer?
 
TroyDASH said:
The idea of the terminology inviting action by actual nation-states might be a valid point. We all know that "DASH Nation" is not referring to an actual nation, but there is the possibility for misconception especially if DASH actually gains ground in its long term goal. I definitely don't see it as an immediate problem anywhere in the short term though, and the concept of it being "allowed" isn't really applicable since it hasn't been endorsed by the development team and nothing has been funded under that name from the blockchain. If anyone can think of a better terminology I'm all ears, but "Dash Nation" I think works just about as well as Red Sox Nation does, which is pretty good.
Click to expand...

IMO... a newbie opinion, at that ! ... IF someone takes such great pride in DASH participation, request permission from the MN's and print up DASH T-shirts and market them. For profit, or at cost, no matter... It's actually a darn catchy logo !
My own opinion is objection to the 'nation' qualifier whether it's a simile to the Sox or not. We've all seen msm presentations on the football hooligans, and that behaviour would be quite detrimental and, possibility of that could be deaalt with with pre-emptive action in certain and specific Very populous mega-manufacturing nation states where, IMO again, DASH should endeavor to expand.
It is my position, for consideration by those interested, that anything which might constitute any sort of impediment to DASH should be avoided like the plague.
Best
rc
 
TaoOfSatoshi said:
Seriously? I think you need to watch this (my segment starts at 5min:30sec):
Click to expand...

OK, tos, I watched it, and your segment, specifically...
Wow!
What can I say ?
What a creepy azz bow tie and I am conflicted by 582 subs, with 1k views and only 38 likes.
I can see you are excited and exuberant over DASH. I'll give you points for that.
I did mark the vid, and may go back and pick it apart, but I'm NOT a sports fan.
As a DASH proponent, I'll take Amanda B. Johnson @ Daily Decrypt, AnyDay ! Yet now, she's departed... My loss.
< I > work. I work for others. It's a P2P relationship.
I do competent work. I expect to be compensated upon satisfactory completion of whatever task I have been assigned by contract.
P2P works fine for me, without involving some cartel that manipulates the purchasing power of whatever nomenclature I am paid for my labor with.
Peachy to see you are elated and a cheerful sort of fellow. I like that.
To make any allegation of remuneration for the effort I put into laboring away at any project, in the same light as the diversion of entertainment value achieved by those who follow a corporate owned professional sports team is a perversion of P2P inter-action, where the rubber meets the road... real life.
I <think> you mentioned religion... Gosh, tos... would you really think it wise to promote any sort of correlation between the payment method we wish to employ when we inter-act with other persons and personal theological concepts ?
I looked up the accepted definition of "tao" to see what you are about... Do you really feel this is 'the path' ? ...That DASH should take ???
I just wanna get compensation for construction work and take that to the market place and buy a turnip !
tos, this is shooting from the hip, and not a prepared response to your video representation, or other topics you have presented.
You are certainly worthy of a response, and my credential as newbie speaks for itself... rc
 
Voluntary said:
@GreyGhost You take issue with the word 'nation' but 'sovereign' and 'collective' pass muster?

@demo How can the Dash budget system be a tax if nobody puts a gun to my head if I decide to opt out?

@rustycase Do you really think use of a word would incur 'decisive action' from a nation state or would it more likely be a convenient pretext for punishment of disobedient slaves that dared to abandon their paper currency? Although... The people that do business as 'government' *did* get pretty tetchy about use of the word 'dollar'... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_von_NotHaus

But, to get back on topic, I think there can be a positive aspect to forum quietness - everyone is going about their business without issue.
Click to expand...

Decisive action ?
One word... well, two...
Falun Gong.

But yes, V... I agree with you... 'everyone is going about their business without issue.'
This is how it should be. Use DASH and make it stronger !
...and don't confuze it with other things like political implications...

Best
rc
 
rustycase said:
OK, tos, I watched it, and your segment, specifically...
Wow!
What can I say ?
What a creepy azz bow tie and I am conflicted by 582 subs, with 1k views and only 38 likes.
I can see you are excited and exuberant over DASH. I'll give you points for that.
I did mark the vid, and may go back and pick it apart, but I'm NOT a sports fan.
As a DASH proponent, I'll take Amanda B. Johnson @ Daily Decrypt, AnyDay ! Yet now, she's departed... My loss.
< I > work. I work for others. It's a P2P relationship.
I do competent work. I expect to be compensated upon satisfactory completion of whatever task I have been assigned by contract.
P2P works fine for me, without involving some cartel that manipulates the purchasing power of whatever nomenclature I am paid for my labor with.
Peachy to see you are elated and a cheerful sort of fellow. I like that.
To make any allegation of remuneration for the effort I put into laboring away at any project, in the same light as the diversion of entertainment value achieved by those who follow a corporate owned professional sports team is a perversion of P2P inter-action, where the rubber meets the road... real life.
I <think> you mentioned religion... Gosh, tos... would you really think it wise to promote any sort of correlation between the payment method we wish to employ when we inter-act with other persons and personal theological concepts ?
I looked up the accepted definition of "tao" to see what you are about... Do you really feel this is 'the path' ? ...That DASH should take ???
I just wanna get compensation for construction work and take that to the market place and buy a turnip !
tos, this is shooting from the hip, and not a prepared response to your video representation, or other topics you have presented.
You are certainly worthy of a response, and my credential as newbie speaks for itself... rc
Click to expand...
Irrelevant criticism of Bitcoin Rush and his style and level of success aside, I'm happy you watched my video and provided me feedback. I'm not arguing with you, I'd prefer AJ as well, she's much cuter than me... ;) It's funny that you mention her, though, because the same night when that video was released, she tweeted me to say I did a good job. She is a believer in the Dash Nation concept as it incorporates a powerful message of belonging and promoting privacy and financial freedom.

This is not your style? That's OK, there are many different people in this world, who would be drawn to different aspects of Dash. The Dash Nation campaign has welcomed many people to our community that may not have joined if we didn't present this way of thinking. You think that we should engage outsiders in a different way? That's great! You can cater to the people that you are trying to attract with your own style, and I will continue doing what I'm doing. You will get people here, and so will I. I will be behind you every step of the way.

And you know what? The people we bring in with our different styles will all use Dash. And isn't that the point?
 
camosoul said:
Speaking of, what's with the moon getting closer?
Click to expand...

It's your animal magnetism, the moon can't resist you!

RE: the budget being a tax, I don't get that at all. The budget system funds are never touched by MN owners or Miners, thus they never had to pay it out of their funds. And besides that, MN owners and community members gave overwhelming support for the budget system. Not only that, they "voted" by switching over to it. If the MN network were to vote now, "should we eliminate the 10% budget and take the funds for ourselves" I'm sure more than 95% would say no because they know that those funds help with development, and development ultimately gives Dash far more value.

To the people that have been complaining lately, where do you come from? Are you really so short-sighted and greedy? Or are you our new Dash.org forum trolls? I suspect the latter.
 
Voluntary said:
@demo Are you honestly arguing that MN owners should decide how much they're paid? What do you think that would achieve?

Also, as I don't mine Dash, what you refer to as a tax doesn't have any impact on me. But, if I did mine, any income I received would have been generated by the Dash protocol, so this is quite unlike the parasitic nation state.
Click to expand...

Because something is generated by a protocol, this does not mean that it is not a tax. It is a protocol generated tax.

What I mainly argue is that 10% is a hardcoded number, thus a wrong number. This is not correct, it should be a number that fits to the will of the active members of the community. If you have a theory explaining why 10% is the correct number for the community of today, then it is ok. But you have not. So in the case a number has no theory, then this number should vary in order to fit best into the community's current needs (and vary again in order to fit to the future needs of course).

And who is about to decide the change of that number? It is either Evan, or the core team, or the MN owners, or the miners, or the wallet owners. I am in favor of the third or fourth option. I dont think the fifth option (wallet owners) is appropriate, because wallet owners get benefits from the budget (for example they hope the basic income to be written in the budget).

So lets inspect the decision tree to be voted, and how polls are dependant eachother. More dependent polls could occur of course, this is just the simpliest decision tree example about this subject.

Poll:Should 10% budget be a constant number for the present and the future?(yes/no/other)
---Voted yes/other---> end
---Voted no-------------> Poll:Should Evan decide the change of this number? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should core team decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should MN owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
------ Voted no/other--->end
-------Voted yes -----------> Poll: Should MN owners decide that change by voting with numbers? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should miners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should wallet owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
​
And who is allowed to vote into this decision tree? Evan and the core team currently.

But I claim that at least MN owners should also be allowed to vote on it. Not by voting a simple yes or no for a proposed budget percentage, but by voting with a number, a number between 0% and 100%. And then the poll result should be the average of all the number votes.
 
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demo said:
Because something is generated by a protocol, this does not mean that it is not a tax. It is a protocol generated tax.

What I mainly argue is that 10% is a hardcoded number, thus a wrong number. This is not correct, it should be a number that fits to the will of the active members of the community. If you have a theory explaining why 10% is the correct number for the community of today, then it is ok. But you have not. So in the case a number has no theory, then this number should vary in order to fit best into the community's current needs (and vary again in order to fit to the future needs of course).

And who is about to decide the change of that number? It is either Evan, or the core team, or the MN owners, or the miners, or the wallet owners. I am in favor of the third or fourth option. I dont think the fifth option (wallet owners) is appropriate, because wallet owners get benefits from the budget (for example they hope the basic income to be written in the budget).

So lets inspect the decision tree to be voted, and how polls are dependant eachother. More dependent polls could occur of course, this is just the simpliest decision tree example about this subject.

Poll:Should 10% budget be a constant number for the present and the future?(yes/no/other)
---Voted yes/other---> end
---Voted no-------------> Poll:Should Evan decide the change of this number? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should core team decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should MN owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
------ Voted no/other--->end
-------Voted yes -----------> Poll: Should MN owners decide that change by voting with numbers? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should miners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should wallet owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
​
And who is allowed to vote into this decision tree? Evan and the core team currently.

But I claim that at least MN owners should also be allowed to vote on it. Not by voting a simple yes or no for a proposed budget percentage, but by voting with a number, a number between 0% and 100%. And then the poll result should be the average of all the number votes.
Click to expand...

There has been a lot of discussion on who is/should be/will be in charge of decisions like this, buried in the Dash Nation Consensus thread.
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-nation-consensus-discussion.8759/

There was also oaxaca's idea regarding dynamically allocated budgeting:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dynamically-allocated-budgeting.8501/

It's a really good thing to talk about, IMO, but keep in mind the distinctions between what the network is capable of right now, versus what it might be capable of in the future, and what is or isn't technically feasible to implement. Right now the reality is as an open-source decentralized network, the method for how protocol changes are accepted by the DASH network is very similar if not the same as Bitcoin.
 
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