Which masternodes voted and what exactly voted on various proposals.

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I made some changes in https://mnowatch.godaddysites.com/

Unfortunately as long as it is a free host, there is a limit on how big the html should be, so I can not post the full table. You cannot also sort the table by clicking in the headers because the javascript for sorting is also a lot of code and the free host does not allow it. So if you want to see the full table, and sort it , dowload the zip file and run it in a Chrome browser (the table is huge, and only Chrome is able to sort it smoothly)

The https://mnowatch.godaddysites.com/ free host expires in 4 days .
If you know any other place where I could host my site for free, tell me.
 
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New results 19-12-2017
Use chrome browser for smooth sorting and filtering.
If you know any place where I could host the below html file (for free), tell me.
 

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demo said:
You are right, "Confiscate all their coins" may be considered as equivalent to "kill". But "confiscate some of their coins" cannot be considered as "killing", it is just a change to the social convention that money represents.

There is not only black and white. There is also the gray. Lets vote the numbers. And lets use the mean average in our case, because if we use another average, this will oppress the minorities more.

Lets take the extreme case, where 4663 MNOs vote to confiscate all the money of the richest wallet, and 155 Masternodes (that belong to the richest wallet) vote to confiscate nothing. The result is:
(4663*155000+155*0)/(4663+155) = 150013.
The richest address preserves that way 5000 Dash. If they allow you to own 5000 dash ($4595000) this cannot be considered as killing. You can live a whole life with this money!

Confiscating money from rich wallets or from MNOs that do not vote at all (how much money I don't know, lets vote the numbers about it), can be a good measure, in order to force the rich wallets to run Masternodes (and thus become useful to the community), and in order to force the MNOs to vote into the budget system (and thus reveal their agenda and/or/xor the level of their stupidity/cleverness)
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What a terrible idea. I lived under communism for a time. It wasn't pretty... I would never go back to any system that works like that

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Dandy said:
What a terrible idea. I lived under communism for a time. It wasn't pretty... I would never go back to any system that works like that

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This is not communism! This is democracy. If you dont understand the difference, it is because you are a slave!
 
demo said:
This is not communism! This is democracy. If you dont understand the difference, it is because you are a slave!
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No, it is communism. I know, I lived it.
When you start taking from some people because "it's for the benefit of the many", you start going toward communism / fascism path.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I got into crypto to get away from that kind of system.

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Dandy said:
No, it is communism. I know, I lived it.
When you start taking from some people because "it's for the benefit of the many", you start going toward communism / fascism path.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I got into crypto to get away from that kind of system.
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No, it is democracy, and you havent lived it!
demo said:
In Athenian Democracy rich people were forced by community decisions to give money to the city. Rich people could refuse to give money to the city only if they could prove that there was another person richer than them. And of course the taxation of the non rich citizens was considered as offensive. Everyone, rich or poor, who behaved against the common good in a malicious way, was ostracized and all his fortune was confiscated. Athenians and the rest Greeks (who invented the community money in contrast to the money issued by priests and/or kings) knew that money is/can be a social convention, while the barbarians (and the born to be slaves) who copied the money idea the following centuries, just forgot this important property of money, and (until today) consider money as a religion and/or as a property.

Money is not a property, it is a social contract and social convention, and has to be signed and to be accepted by all involved parties. We are talking about free parties of course, not about masters and (by nature or by necessity) slaves .
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Dandy said:
Taxation is theft. I only accept taxation if it gives me the voting power and if it's voluntary.
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Taxation is not a theft, when you take bits and bytes from someone who owns a lot of them, and who earned them because of a social convention (that money represents). The community gave these bits and bytes, and the community is allowed (by a majority vote) to take them back.

demo said:
Those who believe that money is a religion or a property issued by a king, priest, president, god, old generation or satoshi. Those who do not understand that money is a social convention. Those are the born to be slaves, or the uneducated barbarians.
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You can decide to not take my money and then invent some new form of money that you think is more to your liking.
But I can also decide to not let you take my money away from me for no other reason than that you think you should and if you try to take it by force, I will fight you.
 
Dandy said:
I can also decide to not let you take my money away from me for no other reason than that you think you should and if you try to take it by force, I will fight you.
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You may fight, but you cannot win majority. Only God can.


"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To the victorious will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white vote, and in the vote a new name written, which nobody knoweth saving he that receiveth it."
 
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You can kiss my behind, thanks to the blockchain and cryptocurrencies.
You can kill me, but you can't make me give you my private key.
 
Dandy said:
You can kiss my behind, thanks to the blockchain and cryptocurrencies.
You can kill me, but you can't make me give you my private key.
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There are many private keys into the testnet, but nobody takes them seriously.
Beware, your private key may be considered by the majority as an original until now, but if the majority decides to reject it then it will become like the testnet ones.
 
demo said:
Furthermore I would like to discover the info by using sql queries in your database, but unfortunately sentinel database does not exist when running a simple dash wallet, does it?
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Yah, I know that you need to have a functioning masternode running for sentinel to work. I've thought about forking sentinel and removing that requirement just to take advantage of the SQLite database that it makes but it's not something I've done yet.



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Hi @demo . I don't have much time. I personally do not support taking money away from people in general. I don't exclude one day there might be a system such as this in place as the way distributed juries might punish specific individuals that broke some laws. This could be the way the DAO manages Justice. But taking away money from people because they have too much, without even knowing who an address belongs to is not just politically wrong, it is somethink not very smart. As someone mentioned, what if you take away the money from exchanges, or from corporations, which represent hundreds of individuals. Beside who would want to use a currency where the money is handled in this capricious way. No sir.

Said that I support voting with the numbers and taking the median. But a democracy is not just based upon voting. In a democracy you also should have a constitution, and check and balances. Even if everybody votes for something, this does not make it legal. There are things that are not under the control of the rule of the many. For example if 51% of the people voted to keep the other 49% as slaves this would not make it legal, because it would go against the basics of the constitution. Different countries have different constitutions, but this is pretty much in every constitution. There are 4, I think, countries with no constitution: Israel, the UK, and a couple of others. And while I am not sure Israel is a bastion of Democracy, the case in the UK is that older rules from judges become part of the law, so the system is very different. In any case you NEVER have a situation where people can just vote whatever they want. I would suggest you to read some basic texts about democracy. Not so much texts from any ideologue but from some professors that tries to give an overview of it, and how the different parts connect to each other.

I am sorry if I don't have the time to participate in this very interesting conversation. But Christmas is family time, and my time at the keyboard is very limited. So please forgive me if I don't respond again.
 
Pietro Speroni said:
Said that I support voting with the numbers and taking the median. But a democracy is not just based upon voting. In a democracy you also should have a constitution, and check and balances. Even if everybody votes for something, this does not make it legal. There are things that are not under the control of the rule of the many. For example if 51% of the people voted to keep the other 49% as slaves this would not make it legal, because it would go against the basics of the constitution. Different countries have different constitutions, but this is pretty much in every constitution. There are 4, I think, countries with no constitution: Israel, the UK, and a couple of others. And while I am not sure Israel is a bastion of Democracy, the case in the UK is that older rules from judges become part of the law, so the system is very different. In any case you NEVER have a situation where people can just vote whatever they want. I would suggest you to read some basic texts about democracy. Not so much texts from any ideologue but from some professors that tries to give an overview of it, and how the different parts connect to each other.
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You are talking about Republic. I am talking about Democracy, the way it worked in ancient Greece. Please do not confuse the political regimes, and do not change the meaning of the words, this is what they did in Babel Tower.

Democracy != Republic.

Democracy has no constitution. There is only one thing that should be respected in democracy. Respect the vote of every citizent. So in democracy you cannot turn 49% into slaves. because slaves do not vote.

For an in depth discussion, read here.
 
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Democracy in Greece had slaves.

In any case, I wouldn't want to live in your kind of democracy.
 
Dandy said:
Democracy in Greece had slaves.
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You are also changing the meaning of the words, in order to confuse. The "athenian slaves" were similar to what we call nowdays "immigrants" or "workers". You are brain-washed by the parliament advocates. They are also calling their filthy republic regime as "democracy", in order to confuse.

Read the facts, read the historical truth:

demo said:
If Dash is designed to be the digital cash of the future, and if it will succeed its final goal, then everyone will be forced to use it similar to the way we are nowdays forced to use fiat money.

You have a different definition of slavery than I have. According to my definition slaves are just the people who are not citizents, and citizents are just the people who have voting rights (in order to decide issues of the state, not just elect representatives once every 4 years).

Read the below quote from wikipedia (especially what I marked with bold), and you will understand that the definition of slavery in a ancient athens was similar to what we call nowdays citizenship.

"Athenian slaves
Athenian slaves were the property of their master (or of the state), who could dispose of them as he saw fit. He could give, sell, rent, or bequeath them. A slave could have a spouse and children, but the slave family was not recognized by the state, and the master could scatter the family members at any time.[87] Slaves had fewer judicial rights than citizens and were represented by their master in all judicial proceedings.[88] A misdemeanour that would result in a fine for the free man would result in a flogging for the slave; the ratio seems to have been one lash for one drachma.[84] With several minor exceptions, the testimony of a slave was not admissible except under torture.[89] Slaves were tortured in trials because they often remained loyal to their master. A famous example of trusty slave was Themistocles's Persian slave Sicinnus (the counterpart of Ephialtes of Trachis), who, despite his Persian origin, betrayed Xerxes and helped Athenians in the Battle of Salamis. Despite torture in trials, the Athenian slave was protected in an indirect way: if he was mistreated, the master could initiate litigation for damages and interest (δίκη βλάβης / dikē blabēs).[84] Conversely, a master who excessively mistreated a slave could be prosecuted by any citizen (γραφὴ ὕβρεως / graphē hybreōs); this was not enacted for the sake of the slave, but to avoid violent excess (ὕβρις / hubris).[90]
Isocrates claimed that "not even the most worthless slave can be put to death without trial";[91] the master's power over his slave was not absolute.[92] Draco's law apparently punished with death the murder of a slave; the underlying principle was: "was the crime such that, if it became more widespread, it would do serious harm to society?"[93] The suit that could be brought against a slave's killer was not a suit for damages, as would be the case for the killing of cattle, but a δίκη φονική (dikē phonikē), demanding punishment for the religious pollution brought by the shedding of blood.[94] In the 4th century BC, the suspect was judged by the Palladion, a court which had jurisdiction over unintentional homicide;[95] the imposed penalty seems to have been more than a fine but less than death—maybe exile, as was the case in the murder of a Metic.[94]
However, slaves did belong to their master's household. A newly-bought slave was welcomed with nuts and fruits, just like a newly-wed wife.[87] Slaves took part in most of the civic and family cults; they were expressly invited to join the banquet of the Choes, second day of the Anthesteria,[96] and were allowed initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries.[87] A slave could claim asylum in a temple or at an altar, just like a free man. The slaves shared the gods of their masters and could keep their own religious customs if any.[96]
Slaves could not own property, but their masters often let them save up to purchase their freedom,[97] and records survive of slaves operating businesses by themselves, making only a fixed tax-payment to their masters. Athens also had a law forbidding the striking of slaves: if a person struck what appeared to be a slave in Athens, that person might find himself hitting a fellow-citizen, because many citizens dressed no better than slaves. It astonished other Greeks that Athenians tolerated back-chat from slaves.[98] Athenian slaves fought together with Athenian freemen at the battle of Marathon, and the monuments memorialize them.[99] It was formally decreed before the battle of Salamis that the citizens should "save themselves, their women, children, and slaves".[100]
Slaves had special sexual restrictions and obligations. For example, a slave could not engage free boys in pederastic relationships ("A slave shall not be the lover of a free boy nor follow after him, or else he shall receive fifty blows of the public lash."), and they were forbidden from the palaestrae ("A slave shall not take exercise or anoint himself in the wrestling-schools."). Both laws are attributed to Solon.[101] Fathers wanting to protect their sons from unwanted advances provided them with a slave guard, called a paidagogos, to escort the boy in his travels.
The sons of vanquished foes would be enslaved and often forced to work in male brothels, as in the case of Phaedo of Elis, who at the request of Socrates was bought and freed from such an enterprise by the philosopher's rich friends.[102] On the other hand, it is attested in sources that the rape of slaves was persecuted, at least occasionally.[103] "

Lets summarize it
  1. Slaves were the property of their master (or of the state) <-- public servants!
  2. Slaves were tortured in trials because they often remained loyal to their master. <-- same behavior the today's employees, who remain loyal in their companies in front of a court.
  3. a master who excessively mistreated a slave could be prosecuted by any citizen
  4. "not even the most worthless slave can be put to death without trial"
  5. law apparently punished with death the murder of a slave
  6. a slave's killer was not a suit for damages, as would be the case for the killing of cattle, but a δίκη φονική (dikē phonikē)
  7. A newly-bought slave was welcomed with nuts and fruits, just like a newly-wed wife
  8. A slave could claim asylum in a temple or at an altar, just like a free man.
  9. The slaves shared the gods of their masters and could keep their own religious customs if any
  10. records survive of slaves operating businesses by themselves, making only a fixed tax-payment to their masters. <-- The right to do businesses. Today's taxpayers are regarded as slaves?
  11. a law forbidding the striking of slaves.
  12. many citizens dressed no better than slaves
  13. Athenians tolerated back-chat from slaves. <--- free speech!!!
  14. Athenian slaves fought together with Athenian freemen at the battle of Marathon, and the monuments memorialize them
  15. It was formally decreed before the battle of Salamis that the citizens should "save themselves, their women, children, and slaves". <-- From this quote it seems that the slaves were part of their family, similar to the today's house keepers or butlers.
  16. Fathers wanting to protect their sons from unwanted advances provided them with a slave guard, called a paidagogos, to escort the boy in his travels. <--- Are the today's teachers slaves?
  17. it is attested in sources that the rape of slaves was persecuted


This is how I define slaves. I define slavery with ancient athenian terms: Slaves are the people who, althought they are protected by the state, they are not allowed to vote and decide for state's issues.

The ancient athenian slaves were almost what we nowdays call as "workers" or "servants".
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UdjinM6 said:
You can always host static sites for free on GitHub Pages https://help.github.com/articles/what-is-github-pages/
Proof: https://github.com/UdjinM6/bitlisten/ -> https://udjinm6.github.io/bitlisten/
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I noticed that you are using insight.dash.org for bitlisten. I was wondering, is there any credible online api where I could get all the info I need for my mnowatch site? Can I use this api? I can pass parameters there so maybe I could use this.

Unfortunately github pages allows only javascript calls, you cannot run a dashd in github pages! And javascript calls means that all the heavy process needed to create this, should be performed in the client side!

So I prefer to get the info from my own dash node. Do you know any (free) host that allows me to run dashd there (or something similar to dashd) ?
 
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