drkrooster
Member
more hiring != betterThanks Core. Lots of interesting things going on. I notice more dev hiring.
there have been more hiring, with little result
their progress have been much slower than when they were a smaller team.
What's Going on at Dash?
- Thread starter Alexander Chopan
- Start date
- Status
there have been more hiring, with little result
their progress have been much slower than when they were a smaller team.
drkrooster
Member
Evolution? 2019 or maybe 2020 if we progress as we are on 1st half of 2018!
Agreed. Unfortunately not only the roadmap is suffering for huge delays. Everyone who get a job should understand that delays are an integral part of any project for many reasons , but we have to admit that the release date of any deliverable at the moment is completely off the predictions.
I am particularly thinking about guests from DCG invited months ago in the (excellent) weekly dash force news show, who estimated the release of the roadmap "in a couple of weeks", like "12.3" (testnet I suppose).
I can understand all the difficulties that are currently facing DCG but these recurring huge delays negatively and inevitably impact the overall credibility of the project. This is making me sad because I always talk about Dash to my friends around me and this is the first time I have some kind of doubts about the efficiency of the team. Hope this is only a bad phase and everything gets better when evolution is released before the end of the year (well, I hope.....)
I am particularly thinking about guests from DCG invited months ago in the (excellent) weekly dash force news show, who estimated the release of the roadmap "in a couple of weeks", like "12.3" (testnet I suppose).
I can understand all the difficulties that are currently facing DCG but these recurring huge delays negatively and inevitably impact the overall credibility of the project. This is making me sad because I always talk about Dash to my friends around me and this is the first time I have some kind of doubts about the efficiency of the team. Hope this is only a bad phase and everything gets better when evolution is released before the end of the year (well, I hope.....)
JZA
Active member
I think the issue is not the delayed but lack of information on what caused the delay (or whom) and what will be the new projection with an actual deadline. Also wonder how some of these employees have been performing (or not employees but lets call it departments). Mock scenario: we know mobile is behind, but what has the web team done in the last 6 months or 1 month or 2 weeks?
The way the slides present themselves, it seems that HR is as big or important as Software Development.
Yeah its started to make me wonder about how the Dash Team Leads, the CEO and other heads of Core actually track progress, if at all. I think delays go unnoticed for long periods of time without any repercussions in the team. i.e. someone says we need "xyz" delivered by this date. When that date passes nobody asks questions if its not done, and if the responsible person says "just didn't get around to it" the response is "ohh ok, let me know when you do, in the mean time I will just twiddle my thumbs and play some solitaire". We have many project managers, what are they doing? When there is an issue like with Bamboo, are there escalations where people can be re-assigned and all hands on deck to ensure things are dealt with swiftly or left to be delayed for 3 months like 12.3 has been?
If I was managing a project of this scale, after I saw this many delays I would start digging deeper to understand the root cause and see where the bottlenecks are, and who is not performing.
Wonder how long before MNOs start to cut funding to Core? Already happening with the PR budget.....
Obusco
Member
If I may, I would like to disagree and explain my rationale. I'm helping the network at DCG for the last two years, and as a Lead Dev (Backend, Dashpay), I had quite a nice overview and I would love to disagree. What happen is that our work process has improved in quality (at every level, from infrastructure to internal tech communication), this happen to reduce the time as we do have more meeting (where we share who did what, and other sprint retrospectives, resulting in the doc above) and the time spent (running all the test carefully, .
This actually is a good thing as it make me way more confident about the future than I ever was. What happen is that now, we actually can handle a lot.
For instance, which coin has a decentralised organisation who offer help to companies for the integration of Dash, I mean, talking with a lot of people, and entrepreneur, basically this is a major thing that we created and provide that distinguish from a lot.
I even heard thing from bitcoin maximalist about the fact that we actually have good libraries and we actually work on it (adding features, fixing, improving) while usually (and us included 2 years ago), we just provided basic dash handling but nothing no added value in there from bitcoin (I'm talking about InstantSend for instance). We (devs) have support from PO/ScrumMaster helping us a freaking lot, which is not a luxury that we had before. It allow this way devs to more effectively.
So no, Dash Core is not too big to work effectively.
Edit : Obviously, I'm far from making a exhaustive list here and just stated my general rationale, details to cover 2 years would request a medium article about organisation scalability and this as exemple
Last edited:
Alexander Chopan
Member
The feedback here is valid.
We at DCG are working on all these issues the community is raising. We cannot change the past. We can only focus on the present and the future. What we don’t want to do is run w/ scissors — for example, we wouldn’t publish an updated roadmap w/o our new CTO’s guidance and shaping... and he just started last week. The problems the community raises do take time to address and correct.
Evolution is not just an upgrade to our protocol, it required an upgrade to our entire organization. We scaled the team fast with mostly developers and little management, our teams were not integrated, our delivery processes were not the same among the teams, and we struggled to stay aligned as the Evolution design evolved (no pun intended). We realized our problems late and took corrective action late. We can’t change that. Yes, we failed hitting milestones. Failing is part of growth. Learning from failure is how we improve.
We hired a CFO, Business Development Director, CMO, COO, and CTO in recent months. Each is building out their teams and already improving our organization’s ability to deliver and to grow the network. Robert hired a consultant team to coach us through implementing agile across the software dev side. Nathan let go people who were underperforming.
We did the rebrand, updated our value proposition and goals in the last quarterly, are working on the website facelift, hired product managers, and improved our external communication. The community now has transparency into what all elements of DCG are up to on a biweekly basis from the What’s Going on at DCG, and also has insight into the future budget from Glenn. Now with a CFO on board, Ryan has time to engage more externally wearing only one hat as CEO instead of several hats, spent the last two weeks in New York educating investors, and you are starting to see some elevated exposure (e.g. Ryan’s most recent press spot was in Entrepreneur magazine, and last week he was at the BCI investor summit). Biz Dev built out its Americas team, updated the escrow process so they can focus on their actual job - busines development, launched several partnerships this year, and Brad himself is now starting to get more media exposure (thanks to Wachsman). Now Fernando is also starting to build out his team and marketing efforts. We aren’t there yet, but we do think we are improving, getting there, and we will deliver Evolution.
We welcome the community holding us accountable and ask you to continue doing so.
We at DCG are working on all these issues the community is raising. We cannot change the past. We can only focus on the present and the future. What we don’t want to do is run w/ scissors — for example, we wouldn’t publish an updated roadmap w/o our new CTO’s guidance and shaping... and he just started last week. The problems the community raises do take time to address and correct.
Evolution is not just an upgrade to our protocol, it required an upgrade to our entire organization. We scaled the team fast with mostly developers and little management, our teams were not integrated, our delivery processes were not the same among the teams, and we struggled to stay aligned as the Evolution design evolved (no pun intended). We realized our problems late and took corrective action late. We can’t change that. Yes, we failed hitting milestones. Failing is part of growth. Learning from failure is how we improve.
We hired a CFO, Business Development Director, CMO, COO, and CTO in recent months. Each is building out their teams and already improving our organization’s ability to deliver and to grow the network. Robert hired a consultant team to coach us through implementing agile across the software dev side. Nathan let go people who were underperforming.
We did the rebrand, updated our value proposition and goals in the last quarterly, are working on the website facelift, hired product managers, and improved our external communication. The community now has transparency into what all elements of DCG are up to on a biweekly basis from the What’s Going on at DCG, and also has insight into the future budget from Glenn. Now with a CFO on board, Ryan has time to engage more externally wearing only one hat as CEO instead of several hats, spent the last two weeks in New York educating investors, and you are starting to see some elevated exposure (e.g. Ryan’s most recent press spot was in Entrepreneur magazine, and last week he was at the BCI investor summit). Biz Dev built out its Americas team, updated the escrow process so they can focus on their actual job - busines development, launched several partnerships this year, and Brad himself is now starting to get more media exposure (thanks to Wachsman). Now Fernando is also starting to build out his team and marketing efforts. We aren’t there yet, but we do think we are improving, getting there, and we will deliver Evolution.
We welcome the community holding us accountable and ask you to continue doing so.
randomalbum
Member
@Alexander Chopan The problem is the market will not wait for you guys. The window of opportunity for usernames and passwords was mid 2017. Try releasing it now and it won't make a difference on the price or transaction count. Whatever it is you guys are building, it won't matter if you got the timing wrong. I see no sense of urgency whatsoever here and it's maybe because you all get paid no matter what and have no bonus.
foxtrot
New member
Core are pioneering a radically transformative platform, and they need our ongoing support. They are diligent individuals and want to get it right the first time as much anybody else. Yes it’s a big deal, which also translates to a big job, and big jobs will always be easier said than done. There have also been some acknowledged setbacks, however it seems that things are shaping up well as of late.
Look at the team at DCG, key strategic positions have only recently been filled, and oh boy do we have some talent onboard now. Bob Carroll, their most recent recruit will be an absolute blessing for product development. Let’s give Bob enough leeway to settle in with the team, soon enough he’ll contribute tremendously to the performance and quality assurance of the Evolution rollout and beyond.
Look at the team at DCG, key strategic positions have only recently been filled, and oh boy do we have some talent onboard now. Bob Carroll, their most recent recruit will be an absolute blessing for product development. Let’s give Bob enough leeway to settle in with the team, soon enough he’ll contribute tremendously to the performance and quality assurance of the Evolution rollout and beyond.
TroyDASH
Well-known member
What would be examples of some things you are looking for with respect to a sense of urgency?
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
I think @Alexander Chopan hit the nail on the head here. Mistakes were admittedly made, but the team that is rounding into shape now should prevent these mistakes from happening in the future. Running a decentralized business is not easy. What the Dash Core Group is doing has never been done before, both from an organizational and technological standpoint. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, here! Patience is a virtue.
The first step in fixing a problem, is to first admit that you have one. I am a long timer at Dash and the post by @Alexander Chopan is the first communication I have seen that acknowledges and takes responsibility for the problems that exist in Core.
Most of the time its been smoke and mirrors with DCG making out that everything is fine, when the reality is, its plagued with growing pains, delays and performance issues. The best approach is rather to be open and honest and not pretend like everything is fine. I would rather see you have problems, and be on your journey and see how you go about fixing them....that INCREASES confidence and ultimately your reputation in the market. Being a wall of silence and not delivering is the biggest recipe for disaster which Dash has been for the last year, and rightly shows.
Saying the roadmap is almost done for months and months, saying the DIPs are almost completed, when communications from certain team members are that they arent written or haven't even started, people close to the project see right through this and the truth usually comes to the surface eventually.
I am happy to be patient to ensure Evolution gets the launch that it deserves. We are damn lucky that there is no competing project in the payments space with their own version of Evolution or you can bet that this project would dead.
Off the back of this, I am also happy to see Core has taken the right steps to ensure these issues are fixed properly and that things are done to ensure Dash survives for the long term.
If anything I would expect investors to see the post from @Alexander Chopan as a breath of fresh air and renewed enthusiasm.
Only thing left is to start delivering something solid in 2018, other than a late re-brand and some repeated updates every few weeks.
@Ryan Taylor @fernando @glennaustin
Most of the time its been smoke and mirrors with DCG making out that everything is fine, when the reality is, its plagued with growing pains, delays and performance issues. The best approach is rather to be open and honest and not pretend like everything is fine. I would rather see you have problems, and be on your journey and see how you go about fixing them....that INCREASES confidence and ultimately your reputation in the market. Being a wall of silence and not delivering is the biggest recipe for disaster which Dash has been for the last year, and rightly shows.
Saying the roadmap is almost done for months and months, saying the DIPs are almost completed, when communications from certain team members are that they arent written or haven't even started, people close to the project see right through this and the truth usually comes to the surface eventually.
I am happy to be patient to ensure Evolution gets the launch that it deserves. We are damn lucky that there is no competing project in the payments space with their own version of Evolution or you can bet that this project would dead.
Off the back of this, I am also happy to see Core has taken the right steps to ensure these issues are fixed properly and that things are done to ensure Dash survives for the long term.
If anything I would expect investors to see the post from @Alexander Chopan as a breath of fresh air and renewed enthusiasm.
Only thing left is to start delivering something solid in 2018, other than a late re-brand and some repeated updates every few weeks.
@Ryan Taylor @fernando @glennaustin
Last edited:
The philosofers coin
Member
I am assuming that these means that there also dev's that where under-performing ?
I am glad that changes are being made but I also would like to believe that the Dash dev's are some of the best in crypto-town, but hearing this that not completely true
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
Valid points. Worthy of discussion at least.
Arthyron
Active member
One thing I would point out, is that most of the other projects in this space that are making progress in their development goals are centralized projects, or at least centralized in their present, early state of development. It's much easier for a centralized development team who controls all of the funding and has it all upfront. Dash has been decentralized from the beginning, and is only just now starting to develop structures and organization parallel to those a centralized development team might have, and Dash is doing this in a decentralized way. If we want to maintain our commitment to decentralization and administration by the DAO, it's going to be a longer, harder road to get where we're going. This would be the case even if we were producing very simple, run-of-the-mill products, but we're not. We're doing unique, unprecedented things, and the extent to which other projects have copied or borrowed from Dash and been met to more or less of a degree with their own successes is a testament to the fact that we're on the right track. We're going to get where we're going, and it sounds like Core is adjusting and honing their methodology and praxis accordingly, but I'm not sure what people expect from a decentralized team that is in the midst of a huge expansion and reorganization effort while simultaneously working on enormous projects in the middle of a market downturn.
What I see right now is precisely what *I* would expect in such a situation, and I'm not the least bit concerned about Core's present progress, pace, or scope. The features I've seen that have or are going to be added for the Evolution MVP developed organically and procedurally out of what it would take to best facilitate the other features already planned. For example, if you implement "names" on chain, then you're going to need a system for how those names are obtained and how these new "addresses" and "account" relate to one another. If you're going to have a DAPI, then you're going to need a framework wherein other developers are able to interface with and utilize it. Etc, etc. These are synergies that are necessary for proper functioning that are born out of testing and usability study. I wouldn't want a half-baked product to reach the market. I would rather have a solid, functioning, feature-rich one. If Evolution is delayed beyond this year, then I would feel there is cause for concern, but I think Core has demonstrated so far that they are able and willing to adapt and do what it takes to produce world-class products and I have not been given any reason to lack confidence in this outcome.
What I see right now is precisely what *I* would expect in such a situation, and I'm not the least bit concerned about Core's present progress, pace, or scope. The features I've seen that have or are going to be added for the Evolution MVP developed organically and procedurally out of what it would take to best facilitate the other features already planned. For example, if you implement "names" on chain, then you're going to need a system for how those names are obtained and how these new "addresses" and "account" relate to one another. If you're going to have a DAPI, then you're going to need a framework wherein other developers are able to interface with and utilize it. Etc, etc. These are synergies that are necessary for proper functioning that are born out of testing and usability study. I wouldn't want a half-baked product to reach the market. I would rather have a solid, functioning, feature-rich one. If Evolution is delayed beyond this year, then I would feel there is cause for concern, but I think Core has demonstrated so far that they are able and willing to adapt and do what it takes to produce world-class products and I have not been given any reason to lack confidence in this outcome.
JZA
Active member
That said I really think there were more DASH organizations doing development beside DASH Inc and core be develop by comission similar like Bitcoin Cash, they have the ABC team they have bitpay team and other organizations contributing code to the ecosystem. Something like 'bcoin' (a nodejs node alternative to the c++ node from core), and mantain that node and produce software on top of it like frameworks, solutions and promote protocols that increase the functionality of masternodes.
I can see 5 or 6 organizations eating out of the treasury, what I really wish that doesnt happen is these C-level and managers and others positions to make a 'cathedral type' structures that are solely feeding off the treasury.
Arthyron
Active member
Seems like a workable model when the time comes, but that would definitely be expensive for us, because people know that we *can* fund them, so they won't want to work without commensurate funding as they might be amenable to in other situations. We do fund quite a few independent developments like different wallets, the masternode tool, and other parts of the ecosystem, it's just currently heavily skewed toward Core over independent developers at the moment. I agree, though, cathedrals or silos or whatever are probably antithetical to the values that have propelled Dash to this point and I hope we'll be able to resist that temptation.
JZA
Active member
Yes maybe when we are big, but thats really not something that might matter... I think there is enough funds going to marketing that honestly we dont need.
Also I think this will motivate other organizations to keep producing at the expense of having the risk of secrecy or just keeping the community uninformed for long periods of time like we are seen right now. Competition is always the best way to keep companies agile and open.
The philosofers coin
Member
It come under my attention that dASHBREAKER
Is both active on this forum, and that there is a dASHBREAKER_ active on /r/monero reddit, actively attempting to discredit Dash in a disingenuous way.
I does seem likely to me that this means we are perhaps dealing with a "concern troll"
Is both active on this forum, and that there is a dASHBREAKER_ active on /r/monero reddit, actively attempting to discredit Dash in a disingenuous way.
I does seem likely to me that this means we are perhaps dealing with a "concern troll"
- Status