What the hell is wrong with this picture? i thought we were a decentralized project?

[Solarminer]

Off-topic? You really should read that thread again from top to bottom.

This is my point about off topic. You did not address the topic of the thread, the Dash Nation website. If you have a problem with something else thedashguy was doing, address it personally, or in another thread.

I get that you are frustrated by some previous history. Now you post again a long history about problems with thedashguy....which is debatable if 2 months is a long time for 1 guy to redesign a website for in his own time for free. Supposedly we paid a few web design companies to redesign dash.org and gave them 6+ months to do the work and we still don't have anything. Web design isn't always easy or fast.

This comment is considered an attack. https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashnation-com-soft-launch.9181/#post-97151

You guys are on a vendetta against guys like @tungfa that bleeds more Dash than all of your collective demagogue nonsense. Soon, Confluence will have more chapters than Encyclopdeia Britannica, and that is what is going to bring in serious infrastructural partnership/investments. Always constantly directing cheap shots at him whenever you can. The work he is doing nothing short of amazing, and if you only knew how to look you would recognise it from a mile away.

You guys insult @AndyDark who only just got here, and as key player for Evolution, instead ping-pong'ing around him to discredit him, why not instead find a ways to make our project grow instead of inflating your massive ego's ?

You challenge @kot all the time, and project all your Project Management and DAO philosophies and this and that, and how we're all wrong, and are arrogant and negative, insinuating we're doing thing our way because we have some oligarchic attitude ... when all we are doing in actively implementing @eduffield's vision and roadmap.​

Can you see how you associated everything I did with thedashguy?
The statements you make are twisted. I don't have a vendetta against tungfa. Do I think he needs to act more positive and provide less disrespectful posts? yes. Andydark lashed out at me and called me a troll and some other inappropriate things because of a misunderstanding. Did I react in the same manner - no. I kept my cool. Now Andy has apologized. I have also given him several ideas to think about with Evolution. I challenge Kot and everyone I think is going down the wrong path. Everyone else should do the same. A message board is supposed be a place to discuss opposing views. This is what this community should be about.

 

[TheDashGuy]

@Solarminer stop putting your neck out for me before these cunts target you to.

I'm done here anyways. And @yidakee is lucky ill never meet his little bitch ass in real life. Fuck this place.

The whole goddamn project is going to get ruined due to twats like @yidakee. Be warned. Good luck to everyone here, don't forget to kiss the core teams ass if you don't wanna be made a target! TO everyone who thinks I'm a troll, go jump off a cliff. And to everyone else, its been real guys, hope to see you around the crypto space.

Delete my goddamn forum account please. i'm sick of this place, these people, and this shit drama.

You are getting youre way good fuckin job @yidakee. I'm literally leaving because of YOU. Grats bitch.

 

[Alexy]

Guys~ If you noticed, the topic of this thread is changed from Tao's proposal to confrontation, personal attack, or whatever it is.
Okay, let's say you guys disagree with each other. So what? isn't the goal here to Take DASH project into the next level? isn't the way to solve the problem is by Decentralized governance?
As to the proposal, please allow me to quote what Evan said in the video series about Dash.

A user has an idea so they document it. They write down a very detailed explanation of how much money they need, how they're going to spend the money,what the community should expect from them,and this is some kind of contract between the proposer and the community. And then they'll go around and they lobby the network.So they first reach out to the community itself ,and they ask, is this something that the community will support? And then the Masternode network they reach out to next.After they start reaching out to all of the people within the community, they gauge support and if they have enough support then they submit the proposal to the network.After they submit the proposal to the network. everything else is actually done completely transparently.

So as far as i know, Tao already submit the proposal to the network, isn't it the time to wait for the result? The decision isn't made by single person, or several people. It is made by the network, aka ALL the MNs.
All mn holders have seen the proposal, give them a time. Please~
IF the proposal passed in the end, cheers, the majority agree with it. IF not, continues to the project, keep contribute to the Community. Because MNs have made the decision. Again, not several people.
I Do hope you guys can find a way to communicate with each other, no more insulting.

Best regards
Alexy
From distant China

 

[Solarminer]

@Alexy, Yes, you are correct on the process.

The topic is more about how some of the core people are reacting to certain posts or people. I feel like they are trying to drive out opposing views or different and creative talent. I don't know the reason, maybe not intentional. But it certainly isn't welcoming like we really should have for a public forum. I am bringing up the old history, not because I have a personal feeling about it, but because I want this place to be more welcoming.

 

[Solarminer]

@SolarminerThreads keep popping up by the same people discussing the same thing, just twisted from another angle. Stop trying to make a case of my "trolling" on that particular thread, when it's the same group of individuals doing exactly that for six months now.

Who are the "individuals doing this for six months now"? I think there was also a reference to 5 concern trolls. Who are the people that are the "problem"?

 

[Alexy]

@Solarminer I do believe you that you want this place to be more welcoming. To me, every each of you (whoever involved) are talent, with different fascinating skills. At the mean time, you guys have the every different personalities. May argue, May turn into fight. But this is the world is like, isn't it? We cannot hope everyone we are working with is the one we like. However, in the DASH project, we have this amazing tools to deal with such cooperation. We don't need to be approved by Coreteam(excuse me, just making a point here). We are allowed to make proposal, if the majority with Us, then great. we keep doing what we promised to the Community/Network.
After all, this is not perfect world, but we are making a system to deal with it. I wish you guys can get along in peace, shake hands or sth. If all of you can work this out, you can work more smoothly than ever. If not, who cares? doing what we should be doing, have a nice idea, write an excellent proposal, submit it to the Network, Done. AGAIN, we don't really need to win everyone's vote, we don't really need to be approved by everyone, Majority is the key here. So let's claim down. No more confrontation. How I wish this thread ends now.

 

[camosoul]

Don't try to push in a direction the core doesn't understand and doesn't care about. If you actually achieve something, they will actively tear it down. Ignore the vacuum DASH is failing to fill even with a feature designed specifically for said vacuum... You don't dare take it upon yourself. Any accomplishment not performed by the core is considered an affront to their control of what was meant to be a piggy bank for the chosen... The more they try to hide it, the more obvious it gets that they're trying to hide it. The reason it seems like dredging up history, is because its rooted in running up against the same petty, greedy attitude problem over and over. No matter how many times it happens...

Glad to see a few people are just barely starting to take vendor integration sort-of seriously. But in that thread we still see the silly of many MN operators placing ridiculous project-killing demands on the would-be customer, not even understanding what they demand or why its bad to expect the customer to give away everything... Such extreme stupid scares the customer.

They insist on doing it their way, even if its blatantly autistic. But I came to realize its mostly because they only know one way. If you're smart enough and experienced enough to know better, their fragile little snowflake SJW egos feel threatened and it becomes a nerd ego catfight.

I'm giving them a free sever. I'm not using it. Why not? Its my way of helping them fail upwards without investing my time, which is far more valuable than a server.

Think of it like raising a teenager. They think they know everything. Won't listen.

Notice how many members of the core team are parents... Its a matter of maturity and perspective, which they lack, but need in order to even see the argument. They just plain don't grasp reality, and they're not going to. They behavior seems malicious, but it comes from simply having no clue and feeling threatened. Typical fragile SJW behavior. Its a hallmark of the times, everybody is doing it!

Being flawed doesn't make them useless. I'm the expert on that one... ;-)

See? Perspective! Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously that you can't handle criticism.

 

[yidakee]

Can you see how you associated everything I did with thedashguy?
The statements you make are twisted. I don't have a vendetta against tungfa. Do I think he needs to act more positive and provide less disrespectful posts? yes. Andydark lashed out at me and called me a troll and some other inappropriate things because of a misunderstanding. Did I react in the same manner - no. I kept my cool. Now Andy has apologized. I have also given him several ideas to think about with Evolution. I challenge Kot and everyone I think is going down the wrong path. Everyone else should do the same. A message board is supposed be a place to discuss opposing views. This is what this community should be about.

About the rest of the quote, again, I plead to your capacity to understand that despite that thread being opened and having a title, the basic premise was discussed on another couple threads. Simply opening a new thread and starting all over again ... it's tiring. And it seems to be the start of a recurring phenomena.

But please let us just read the previous posts, to the post you say I'm off topic

You must be retarded.

Get off the drugs.

You are living in some alternate reality where you think you are actually smart. I'm just going to go ahead and warn you once then im throwing you on ignore. Stop talking as if you know anything because you don't. Come get your little bitch in check core team. He's about to cause you guys one hell of a shit storm.

Why are you on the core team again? You lack any sort of people skills and are an asshole, not to mention a bloated cost of the core team. Better watch yourself and that little childish attitude if you hope to remain a bloated cost.

So who is effectively attacking who here? Just the word choice alone speaks volumes. And again in this thread, including physical threats.

Now, I did quote your post, but I've made it clear that I wasn't answering to you directly. I made that very clear. Before my post you wrote

@yidakee A little encouragement for those actually doing the work can go a long way.

Just going to point out @TheDashGuy has been doing much more than dash.org. Check out www.dashngo.com and code.dashndrink.com. Two other websites he has done to help out Dash. Now www.dashnation.com is released with the help from Tao and others. Pretty amazing that he is doing this at no cost. And now thedashguy spends a little over a month after some of the details about dash.org were lined up and is getting hounded for not finishing fast enough. The very least you could do is encourage him and offer to help him so he can finish faster.

And THAT is why I went on about TDG while quoting you.

So please lets remain objective and not try to twist things around.

Actually doing work? Sure! Never ever did I criticise the work being done on side projects. I'm just defending the attacks and critiques to the Core team, who are actively working on the actual project roadmap.

I understand that your fond of his work, but it's not directly related to the official roadmap. This was essentially you sticking up for TDG, so I responded to your defense. WE DID ENCOURAGE HIM, after months of badgering, we invited him to participate in a Core project. He decided his efforts were more important elsewhere. That is fine! Just not to criticise us because of it.

So was it off topic? Absolutely not. It was completely ON topic given the direction the discussion headed.
It was as much off-topic as your defense of him.

.

 

[demo]

Any accomplishment not performed by the core is considered an affront to their control of what was meant to be a piggy bank for the chosen... The more they try to hide it, the more obvious it gets that they're trying to hide it.

Yup. This is exactly the case. The more they try to hide, the more obvious it gets.

And still, no answer has been given to the questions about the remainder amount of the budget.

 

[Solarminer]

The core needs to work to a higher standard. If you can't respond to criticism in a calm manner, then don't post. Complaining about not starting an argument first is irrelevant. Just act respectful and suck it up. If you call a help desk and raise your voice and start complaining...what happens. The agent calmly responds in a professional way. We should be treating this forum in a similar tone.

Be the better Dash National. (@TaoOfSatoshi Your welcome!)

 

[raganius]

What we really need is a meetup and party: a whole DASH weekend in a pleasant place somewhere. The opportunity to meet and talk eye to eye would be a priceless opportunity to ease all this tension... written communication can sometimes lead to unintended reactions due to different interpretations or misinterpretations.

We are a family here: the DASH family grows stronger with the union of each of us members. I propose we stop a moment, take a small breath, and rethink everything into a global, long-term perspective

 

[camosoul]

Complaining about not starting an argument first

Nuh-uh! HE startred it! Nya nya!

There's way too much demand on go along to get along... Conflict is how shit gets done, not dancing on eggshells worrying about whose going to get offended next. Think of it like sparring. There might be some blood, a black eye, and maybe a few broken bones. But we're still on the same team.... If division rises out of every tiny little disagreement... Fuck, it's so childish. Real grown ups just don't want to deal with that crap.

If you can't take a punch and still be friends, you have no right to be in any position of management.

 

[camosoul]

What we really need is a meetup and party: a whole DASH weekend in a pleasant place somewhere. The opportunity to meet and talk eye to eye would be a priceless opportunity to ease all this tension... written communication can sometimes lead to unintended reactions due to different interpretations or misinterpretations.

We are a family here: the DASH family grows stronger with the union of each of us members. I propose we stop a moment, take a small breath, and rethink everything into a global, long-term perspective

I kinda like the idea of a get together that isn't a conference. Just to do it, no particular reason... But, I probably wouldn't go. Crypto nerds tend to favor venues that are hostile to all but the fringe left.

I'll set up a dunking booth. 1 DASH per throw... Soak Camosoul! The guy you love to hate!

 

[Solarminer]

I kinda like the idea of a get together that isn't a conference. Just to do it, no particular reason... But, I probably wouldn't go. Crypto nerds tend to favor venues that are hostile to all but the fringe left.

Come on Camo....let us on your big boat.

Lets call it the Dash 100. And 100 stands for yep...$100 Dash.

 

[camosoul]

Come on Camo....let us on your big boat.
Lets call it the Dash 100. And 100 stands for yep...$100 Dash.

Big? There's no room on my boat for anyone but me!

If DASH is ever $100, I will print out this message and eat my words.

 

[demo]

I'm just defending the attacks and critiques to the Core team, who are actively working on the actual project roadmap.
.

Better would be to say:
"..who are actively working on their actual project roadmap."

Thats the problem. It is their own roadmap. Not masternode owners roadmap, or miners roadmap, or my roadmap. Who decided about this roadmap? Who voted for it?

The pork barrel bank is CoreTeam's personal roadmap, a roadmap they decided to follow whitout asking the others. They are working on their own personal_benefit roadmap, while at the same time they are trying to hide that they are working on it. But the more they try to hide, the more obvious it gets.

And where this personal_benefit roadmap leads? Ιf CoreTeam works on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and MNs work on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and I work on my own personal_benefit roadmap, then there is no unity. The personal benefit will tear dashNation apart.

The personal benefit should be reduced in favor of the common benefit. And it can be reduced only if we vote for it, and an average benefit is defined. And if you want to caclulate the average, voting with numbers is required.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Better would be to say:
"..who are actively working on their actual project roadmap."

Thats the problem. It is their own roadmap. Not masternode owners roadmap, or miners roadmap, or my roadmap. Who decided about this roadmap? Who voted for it?

The pork barrel bank is CoreTeam's personal roadmap, a roadmap they decided to follow whitout asking the others. They are working on their own personal_benefit roadmap, while at the same time they are trying to hide that they are working on it. But the more they try to hide, the more obvious it gets.

And where this personal_benefit roadmap leads? Ιf CoreTeam works on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and MNs work on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and I work on my own personal_benefit roadmap, then there is no unity. The personal benefit will tear dashNation apart.

The personal benefit should be reduced in favor of the common benefit. And it can be reduced only if we vote for it, and an average benefit is defined. And if you want to caclulate the average, voting with numbers is required.

Can I just say - off topic and back onto your favourite .... that voting by numbers exists already, kind of.... if you have 300 MNs you don't have to use all 300 to vote. Duffield does exactly this; only deploying all votes on things he considers important. So, anyway, I guess the voting by numbers things is totally doable, but like you say, we are held to the core team's wishes, or the usual BS about forking.

 

[halso]

@demo you are definitely off the Dash 100 invite list. You'll kill the buzz.

 

[Bridgewater]

Decentralization is not socialism.

The network is ultimately controlled by people with money, not people with words.

What actually happened in the OP that is worth so much fuss? Something was put to a vote by the people who control dash (masternode owners), and what was the result of that vote? Oh you mean it's not done yet? What's the problem then? The whole point is that we have a system that requires no whining. If the proposal fails, then more convincing (not whining) is necessary. I'm with @Alexy on this one.

The people who control Dash (those who have actually put their hard-earned savings into it) are the "team" we are ALL on. Want to control Dash more, put more money in. It's that simple. Don't have money? Contribute by WORKING, not by trying to convince the people with money to do something else with it. Peddle your socialism elsewhere to suckers actually willing to subsidize your existence, please.

There are some people here with ZERO skin in the game, who bring lots of words and ideas (not all bad!) and provocative (but unsubstantiated) "we, the community" arguments to the table, along with cheap labor and volunteer work. They mostly don't believe in capitalism, which is why they are not interested in working to save money and build wealth; they are just excited about working with people and helping OTHER people make money (whether they know it or not). While their work is appreciated, they should not act so surprised when their bosses don't always listen. If they did, they would be poor, too.

The budget is not a charity organization. The MNO are people who appreciate hard work and results, and have a pretty good idea of what works and doesn't work in the real world to make money and increase value. They would not have enough money to own and operate MNs, otherwise. More respect should be paid to this point, in particular.

Anyone feeling that MNO are selfish, ignorant, or uncaring are likely themselves ignorant. The loudest, most "textually influential" people only exist in the Dash community because of the very MNO they continually berate, who have invested real wealth. Ever notice how the MNO don't whine much? That's because they talk with money, not words. If they were upset with the direction their investment was going, they would dump. When happy, they buy more.

And with Dash they can actually vote with their money to ensure that the direction continues to be good (which does NOT mean disproportionately good for themselves compared to other users). The smart people control the coin's direction, and that's why this coin will succeed in the long run. Smart people are able to read emotionally-charged lamentations like demo's above, identify any value in it, and filter out the noise. Nevertheless, he and others will keep pounding away at the capitalists, hoping to eventually reach any untapped desires (admirable, but not sustainable) to put "humanity" before themselves.

 

[camosoul]

The MNO are people who appreciate hard work and results, and have a pretty good idea of what works and doesn't work in the real world to make money and increase value. They would not have enough money to own and operate MNs, otherwise. More respect should be paid to this point, in particular.

Unfortunately, this part is not actually true. This is how it's meant to work, in theory. But MNs are still too cheap, and most owned by ponzi heads who just got lucky. You can buy MNs with welfare checks, and plenty of them do...

The problem of the people who got in cheap, who only vote as a form of "revenge" against the businesses and evil rich people that they believe have wronged them and owe them something, is not going to go away untul DASH becomes so absurdly expensive that they become that supposedly "evil" rich person, and are forced to see the bullshit of their own perspective.

The overwhelming majority of MNOs are clueless to their responsibilities, and do not understand their role, or how to fulfill it.

Look at the vendor integration proposal's thread.... We still have clowns demanding that NDAs and Privacy Agreements be breached in the name of "Open Source the customers' everything or we vote no!"

They're either insane, or stupid. Or both... And this is what happens when you give a welfare queen the power of a seat on the board of directors...

The majority of MNOs are the same clowns that demand a $15/hr minimum wage for flipping burgers. They're uneducated activist losers that wish to exact revenge on the enemy; people who are not losers. They're only in it to hurt the very people DASH needs to court! They don't even comprehend the idea that "the user experience" needs to include vendors, not just welfare consumers; as is the prevailing attitude of all crypto. They want to fuck over business owners, and anyone with an entrepreneurial mindset.

All that really happened, is that a bunch of lazy, clueless brats have been given what they view as a monetary weapon against the very people they should be trying to help. Finally! They get to hurt the people they hate! This is how they view it, and they don't care how horribly counterproductive it is. SJWs in the fiscal marketplace. What could go wrong?

MNs are still waayyy too cheap to fulfill this particular aspect of their function. I strongly doubt that 1000 DASH will ever be hard enough to obtain that it keeps the fools out.