What the hell is wrong with this picture? i thought we were a decentralized project?

[TroyDASH]

@kot said that Tao is not necessarily a leader because leaders inspire people and do not make people tired due to constant self-promotion. Entitled to his opinion yes, but I certainly wouldn't blame Tao for taking that as an insult. Tao responded to that and he did it in an honest and respectful way, and at the same time disagreeing with the OP about making a big fuss over this. How is that not a level-headed, relatively neutral approach?


Maybe Tao doesn't inspire you @kot, but he inspires a hell of a lot of other people and brings people into DASH. I do not think lobbying for MN votes while clearly respecting your wish to be left alone in your slack when you asked for it, qualifies as tiresome self-promotion, nor does his advocacy of Dash Nation which is for the network and the community, not for him.

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

Hey, @kot, thank you for your comments. Let me address your concerns:

Most of the time you (and almost everyone) accept feedback only when someone says "oh, you are great", "you do a great job" etc. otherwise you don't listen or don't see it. Have a look at your thread: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-tao-community-coordinator.9183 - many people tried to politely say that community leader role is not the best idea, however you continue to keep posting about it everywhere and convince people to vote.

In fact, I have listened to feedback. I have changed the name from "Community Lead" to "Community Coordinator". I feel that it more accurately represents the idea behins the proposal, to build the community and help with communication (which is not and never will be perfect). In regards to posting about the proposal, I'm going to take it easy for a while, it's just that I'm excited about it, and it's hard to portray that excitement properly through text-based communication.

Besides of this, I find the proposal very unclear - I would see it rather converted to project with clear goals and measures instead of bucket of promises.

The items that are in my proposal are not promises. The community builder aspect is a role that I have been doing for free for 2 years. You can easily check my success on Twitter, and you can do a poll of MN owners if you want to see the number I'm directly responsible for. The communicator role is added because I have a great deal of experience in customer service, and this is a role that I would be suited for.

you are making a lot of assumptions without actual agreements e.g. "Enhance communication between the core team and community. [...]" (I am generally referring to the entire paragraph Community Coordinator (New responsibilities) from your proposal) .

I'm sure that my goals align with the goals of the community to build an engaged, valued following. The aspects I propose would have not (in the past, that I've seen) required too much time from the team. I would just ask for clarification on things and bring it to the individual asking.

Did you ask core team members if they are ready to dedicate additional time for you (I am sure they would do it if necessary, the point is that you did not even ask)?

See my response to the last comment. I did have a conversation with Evan about this proposal before posting.

You also make promises like this one: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-tao-community-coordinator.9183/#post-97125 (I guess, I saw similar promise about FB account). Did you make this agreement with anyone who maintains the account at the moment?

I would have to come to an agreement with myself, as I already help maintain the official Twitter , I would just be getting compensated for my time doing it, and be more focused on it.

Don't get me wrong but what is good for DashNation promotion might not be the best solution for Dash promotion.

This is a matter of opinion, and I've explained Dash Nation many times, so suffice it to say I disagree with you here. Just yesterday the fella who interviewed Amanda B. Johnson liked and followed DashNation.com on Twitter, folowing the many others who have responded well to the campaign. Should it be our only marketing strategy? Of course not, but it definitely has a place.

We intend to build a serious financial system and, personally, I would not take seriously any financial solution promoted by the guy sitting and talking out of his shower. Would you? The style of official channels has to be very different than this (probably more conservative than majority of social media channels)

That's kind of below the belt, and not really necessary. Check out my other two videos before you make these types of comments.

1. Please do not manipulate my words (politics?) I did not say you are interested only in self-promotion. Did I?

It seemed that way to me, but I admit I may have misunderstood. My apologies if that was the case.

2. If you feel very insulted by what I wrote, better prepare yourself for hell. This is not a role for sensitive person.

Dude, I've been working in a casino for 20 years, dealing with people who are losing their life savings. I've been called every name in the book, and shrug it off. I've been under attack here as well many times, as most doers are, but I'm still here. I don't think that will be a problem.

Again - please do not manipulate. The reason for this exchange was you posting everywhere about DashNation and voting for Community Leader.

Again, just excited about my proposal and what I'm doing for Dash. I would ask YOU not to make assumptions about my intentions

We were asking you to stop this. Suggesting that it was about helping the newbie is ... hmmm... simply manipulation.

No, it was a prime example of how I would enhance Dash's communication. The question got answered quickly after I got involved, and that is what I will do to improve that aspect of Dash. Please do not accuse me of manipulation again, that is unfair.

I hope you will not feel insulted again by my opinion - I had no intention to do such thing and have respect for what you did for he project (therefore I spend a lot of time to write this message to clarify my opinion, instead of writing so brilliant comment like "Get your shit together" or "You'd think this was a fucking gamestop run by teenagers ").

Thank you for these compliments. The quotes here were not my words, and I don't condone them, as I've stated before. I'm not @TheDashGuy.

You are a good person, extraordinary Dash promoter and supporter. I do not know from where (or from whom) the idea of voting for the leadership role came from but it is not a good idea in my opinion.

The proposal has been changed to "Community Coordinator". It more accurately conveys my ideas.

Are you going to force people to do what you want or what?

I'm sure most will help me for the good of Dash. If not, I made the position a trial run.

In this case there is no defined goals and vision is not understood by many.

I will continue working hard to promote Dash, and using the majority of my spare time to do it. For the next two weeks, watch my Twitter, and my interactions here. I'm only asking to be compensated for my valuable time. It's not too much to ask, is it?

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

Tao, I greatly respect what you do for the Dash project. May I ask, however, how you intend to effectively liaise with the core team when you come here to complain about the core team? If your intention is to be a liaison between Group A and Group B, is it not necessary to be neutral and to maintain the respect of both groups? If Group A makes you angry, how can you come to Group B to complain about Group A? Does that not violate your neutrality and damage the trust you have so carefully built?

The network may fund you, or it may not. If it does fund you, how can you succeed when you alienate some of the very people you are supposed to interact with? You came here to complain about Daniel and Kot, yet those are two of the people you would have to work with most frequently (Daniel as business development and Kot in project management). How can you be successful in this role if these are your methods?

As I explained to kot, I did not originate this thread. @TheDashGuy is not under my control, I had nothing to do with this. I don't have issues with, nor would have problems working with anyone in this project, currently.

 

[TheDashGuy]

As I explained to kot, I did not originate this thread. @TheDashGuy is not under my control, I had nothing to do with this. I don't have issues with, nor would have problems working with anyone in this project, currently.

They don't give a shit they just wanna group everyone up who disagrees with thier crap methods into 1 group of trolls. You are either with them or against them in thier minds.

Such bullshit. I'm just going to listen to @camosoul and find something more productive to do with my time because this has become flat out sad. Decentralization and community support are lost causes here. The goal is to create a average business under the guise of a crypto currency and stack Mn's until no one has to work anymore. Wouldn't even be surprised if someone massively sold those nodes down the road for more personal gain at the cost of a true financial revolution.

@tao Ill show you how to use Dash Nation, a few other people are admins, but I need a break from this shit show. Need sometime to research my next investment thoroughly. Because this place is full of fluff, lies and falsehoods. It's not about us, it's not about the financial revolution, it's about becoming Paypal. Literally. All the bad they do doesn't matter because they are RICH!!!!

I hope one day a real Bitcoin is born, not any of this half baked shit we try to peddle in the crypto world.

Wonderful, just had to add Dash to my shitlist I guess. Good fucking job guys.

Peace the fuck out.

1 guy with 300+ MN's is NOT decentralization, especially when he leads half the project, something smells around here.

 

[Solarminer]

There is a misunderstanding that somehow marketing and promotion needs to be done a certain way. Obviously, the way we have been doing things isn't working. The DAO and Ethereum projects are getting huge evaluations based on nothing but....ether because they know how to emotionally connect with investors. Unfortunately, we are missing that from our marketing.

Anything odd, creative, goofy, weird, or remotely crazy is shot down(intentionally or unintentionally) by core. The current 'leaders' of the core/public awareness are focused on organized content. Sure, basic content like that needs to happen. But we also need to open our eyes and allow some creativity. We don't have the flamboyant, outgoing, creative, artistic people on the core team. So whenever something doesn't fit into the "this is what we think is good" category it doesn't get support. Daniel's comment about "We don't have a community lead", is not his decision, the masternodes determine that.

@tao may be making videos in his shower. But you know what? I watched that video first because I was thinking....OMG what is this? It got my attention. Just because something isn't perfect does not mean it won't work for publicity. The Dash Nation concept is a really good idea to create a community about Dash and the fundamental concepts. It is welcoming, fun, and not just about specs and technical mumbo jumbo.

We should be encouraging the creative outgoing members like Tao, thedashguy, buster, and others. To the concrete sequential mindset this is uncomfortable to see all the odd, weird, and creative ideas along with the few mistakes that happen. But nothing will improve unless this type of talent is encouraged. (Of course, thedashguy has some issues communicating in a family friendly way. Not saying that he or any individual doesn't have a few faults.)

The core proposal has a pledge that all core members work on Dash every day. I suggest that this pledge also includes, "All core members will not be disrespectful to community members and will act in a positive manner on forums". This should be obvious, but it isn't happening.

 

[raganius]

(...)
We should be encouraging the creative outgoing members like Tao, thedashguy, buster, and others.(...)

THIS!

Spontaneous efforts from the community should be warmly welcomed.

Since the first time I heard some people mention "free riders" in this community I felt sad to see that with such ideas we could possibly take wrong paths (that is, if we consider this to be an open sourced peer to peer project).

If someone wholeheartedly wants to contribute for the benefit of all, the least expected is encouragement. The community must honour individual dedication. And when someone brings his ideal to a community he does need incentives to keep doing his best for the benefit of all.

Obviously, some of the "offered help" might even be inopportune some times. But the honest and reasonable contributor will understand and gladly accept improvement suggestions from the community, for sure. And, it is obvious, the group must always demand that its members act honestly and resonably

Unless DASH is decided to need a different kind of organisation (different from what we understand as P2P) there must not be a wall built between the "core" and the "others", because this will certainly result in contempt from the community towards individual member efforts. And that's because, in a centralised organisation, a clear division of "supporters" against "opponents" will eventually be created, and in such scenario individuals will tend to blindly follow "leaders": critical thinking and creativity die; individual spontaneous efforts become more and more rare. This is the kind of things that should never happen in a P2P community, because it is exactly these individual creative contributions that are the most valuable asset for the project.

Of course, I understand that it can be hard to keep the correct balance because the "leaders" will act according to their beliefs, willing to do their best. And while their decisions are (apparently) accepted (or not questioned) they will honestly go on working: because there is a "positive feedback" from the community. That is why threads like this one, questioning, and demanding the group to stop, pay attention to some detail, and think, are a very important way to fine tune the project.

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

I'm with @kot and team on this. Just sayin'.

 

[Minotaur]

There is a misunderstanding that somehow marketing and promotion needs to be done a certain way. Obviously, the

Daniel's comment about "We don't need a community lead", is not his decision, the masternodes determine that.

Hi Solar,

I just wanted to ask you to please correct the quote, as what I said on the working Slack channel is "We don't have a community lead" as you can see in the screenshot that was posted publicly. Which meant exactly what you just said, "the masternodes determine that" and at this moment the voting cycle is still ongoing so we don't know if this proposal will get funded or not until the end of the voting cycle.

My only request was to stop posting so frequently about this in the working Slack as there is a history limit and I was at the moment losing old messages from the collaboration. I apologize if the term "spam" was incorrect this was just part of a private discussion and actually my only comment on the matter. I did not make any public statements and I am not looking to get involved in the debate. Although is nice to see open debate about everything Dash.

 

[Solarminer]

@Minotaur Sorry for misquoting you.

@Vedran Yoweri Could you explain? What are you agreeing with? You like the controlled leadership? You think there are 5 people causing 'problems'? Tao isn't ready to be a leader? Tao hasn't thought his proposal through? Thedashguy needs to tone it down?

The team is the dash community. Lets work together to improve.

 

[TroyDASH]

Hi Solar,

I just wanted to ask you to please correct the quote, as what I said on the working Slack channel is "We don't have a community lead" as you can see in the screenshot that was posted publicly. Which meant exactly what you just said, "the masternodes determine that" and at this moment the voting cycle is still ongoing so we don't know if this proposal will get funded or not until the end of the voting cycle.

My only request was to stop posting so frequently about this in the working Slack as there is a history limit and I was at the moment losing old messages from the collaboration. I apologize if the term "spam" was incorrect this was just part of a private discussion and actually my only comment on the matter. I did not make any public statements and I am not looking to get involved in the debate. Although is nice to see open debate about everything Dash.

Totally understandable, IMO. But I also understand why Tao would go to your slack to try to dialogue with your team about his proposal. I am not a member of your slack, but I would imagine you guys discuss your own budget proposals as well. To say "we don't have a community lead, please stop posting here because you are getting in our way" is not the kindest way to put it to someone as dedicated as Tao, and it makes it seem like you are speaking for the entire core team when that is not necessarily the case. Now I didn't see the full conversation so I don't claim to have the whole picture, but if I have a choice between saving a few lines of text out of the history limit, versus being a little more courteous, I would recommend choosing the latter.

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

@Solarminer. Sure, two reasons i guess.
1. As clear as possible separation between official and 'fan based' dash communications is important imo.
2. This whining when someone says no, it's their project.

edit: last 3 words.

 

[Solarminer]

@Solarminer. Sure, two reasons i guess.
1. As clear as possible separation between official and 'fan based' dash communications is important imo.
2. This whining when someone says no, it's their project.

Thank you. That is a much more constructive comment.

 

[TroyDASH]

@Solarminer. Sure, two reasons i guess.
1. As clear as possible separation between official and 'fan based' dash communications is important imo.

I don't think this is an issue at the moment -- one of the core team's greatest strengths in my opinion is putting out official reports and information (special kudos in particular to @kot, @babygiraffe, and @eduffield). In recent months I don't know of anyone who has ever been confused as to whether a particular communication is an 'official' announcement from the core team or whether it's something coming from somewhere else. Evan's team is quite good at communication in this regard. Where it is lacking is the two-way relationship between the greater DASH user community and core. There has been a series of misunderstandings, poor word choices, personal attacks, unprofessionalism, disrespect and dismissiveness, that has been pervasive in this relationship and it is becoming a noticeable recurring theme and a stumbling block. It is frustrating for developers and it is frustrating for people doing other things to help Dash. I would beg to differ on the notion that the cause of this is just a few trolls who have no interest in Dash's success. There is plenty of blame to go around everywhere, and IMO, it's one of the reasons we really need someone who will be devoted to fostering a healthy community and a healthy encouraging relationship among all parties.

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

Where it is lacking is the two-way relationship between the greater DASH user community and core.

You're just making that up.

 

[TroyDASH]

You're just making that up.

If you haven't noticed how both core members and community members have been extremely demoralized by each other recently then you haven't been paying very good attention.

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

See 5 guys not getting their way. That's not the community. And it's a good choice by the team.

 

[Minotaur]

I can speak for the core team to say, we are super motivated and happy about the project. We are trying our best to work hard and report on progress periodically.

There are some really good news coming soon. Onwards and upwards!

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

I can speak for the core team to say, we are super motivated and happy about the project. We are trying our best to work hard and report on progress periodically.

There are some really good news coming soon. Onwards and upwards!

I agree Daniel. I for one think we are on the right track. Why do you think I hang around?

 

[Solarminer]

See 5 guys not getting their way. That's not the community. And it's a good choice by the team.

Check this thread out. This should have had some simple responses like, "Hey, nice job on the website", "Not the greatest, fix the font", or maybe "Start over, you missed the boat" But look at what happened. Even if thedashguy messed up on another project, there is no reason for the someone, especially with the core label, to act like this!

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashnation-com-soft-launch.9181/

 

[camosoul]

We should be encouraging the creative outgoing members like Tao, thedashguy, buster, and others.

While there are good guys in DASH, the obviousness that it was first and foremost menat to be a piggy bank for a certain few is sad.

If you want the horse to run, you gotta let it out of the barn. The refusal to do so it tied between well-meaning over-protectiveness, and just plain control-freak greed. The core doesn't believe in the concepts of free economics, or else they'd be letting it happen... Socialist mindest at every level of DASH. It's no wonder they can't connect with anyone... How can people who run money be so completely opposed to every fundamental premise of economics? How's that gonna work? Why would businesses who see that be interested?

The now ubiquitous card swpie terminal was driven by vendors, not consumer demand. The consumer just takes what they're given without much thought. They're dumb. And crypto has been catering to that demographic because it's all they know. DASH has the ability to do otherwise, but it's people are what is holding it back. They just plain don't get it, and are too arrogant to admit they're wrong.