Pre-Proposal Discussion - OpenBazaar / Dash Integration

akhavr said:
Sorry, no. As I've told you before - it's really a time issue, not money issue: I can't drop my business and expect it to run itself, even if I'd like to spend on DASH lots and lots of time.

Yet, as I've wrote above - I can lead even a junior python dev, that's willing to spend his time on OB-DASH
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ok no problem
I totally understand , sorry had to double check there !

ok great, let's find somebody
:wink:
 
mastermined said:
DASH has multisig. not sure if that's what you are asking.
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It's not only that, although this multisig capability would be used - there are also various other places where there are no DASH equivalents, for example their integration with Onename. Without a BTC address, that chunk of functionality would be lacking.

akhavr: "I've checked OpenBazaar and the roadmap for the integration is pretty clear. The easier part would be just to substitute BTC for DASH in the entire OpenBazaar."

And where is that roadmap for the integration of Dash?

The easiest part is not to substitute Dash in the entire OB, but to use the BTC version and quote prices in DASH.
 
akhavr said:
Sorry, no. As I've told you before - it's really a time issue, not money issue: I can't drop my business and expect it to run itself, even if I'd like to spend on DASH lots and lots of time.

Yet, as I've wrote above - I can lead even a junior python dev, that's willing to spend his time on OB-DASH
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Bonesdog Interested?
 
Have openbaazar client and server in and running, ISP port issues though, will try and get that sorted (yet again) tomorrow. Not got my head around any of it yet, changed a hell of a lot since I last looked at it and obviously lots still to do on the client but looking good. Last link might be useful, not much noob friendly info:
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar-Server
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar-Client
http://grimtech.net/installing-openbazaar-beta-on-ubuntu-early-october-2015/

Couple more I needed, shouldn't be necessary but leaving here for future ref.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28987891/patch-pyopenssl-for-sslv3-issue
https://github.com/ForbesLindesay/spawn-sync/issues/24
 
akhavr said:
But then pay again in BTC?
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No, you just pay "offline" so to speak, outside of OB.

For example I sell a T-Shirt, and quote price as 10 Dash and 0.0001 BTC.
Now, buyers would have to be really careful to read product description to see the price is not *just* 0.0001 BTC, but also 10 Dash (which would be prominently displayed in product description).
Now at this point you'd have to manually create a multisig dash address for the 3 parties (you, vendor, moderator) and basically duplicate the setup that exists in OB for BTC, and transfer 10 Dash to that address, and 0.0001 BTC to the OB "transaction" address. The vendor would deliver the item and then 2 of 3 parties would have to release the funds from the both addresses.
It's manual and requires hassling with the multisig part, but it doesn't require any development.

In my opinion releasing a Dash version would be the worst idea because maintenance would be expensive.
The manual process above could be made more user friendly and submitted as a patch to OB, that would be the preferred way if the price was right.
It may be better to wait 2-3 months until the code is stable, but that's just me.
 
I would definitely support OpenBazaar integration. Dash is a brilliant idea, but in the aggregate, people only care about the consequences of an idea - the manner and degree to which the idea improves and changes their life. With specific regard to this point, I feel like we are in a doldrums of sorts right now. OpenBazaar would be a good springboard for giving people an opportunity to actually use Dash for something more than just speculation and trade.

My only concern is that even with seamless integration, having the option to use Dash doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will (or that they'll even notice it). I believe there is at least one "major" darknet market that has integrated Dash right along side BTC, and I'm told you would be hard-pressed to find a single vendor accepting anything other than Bitcoin.

But I suppose it all has to start somewhere... IMHO, all the marketing in the world isn't going to amount to much if a project is stuck in the "just an idea" phase. It's much easier to market around why a user ought to use Dash instead of BTC in a popular marketplace (another untested premise), versus marketing around why a person ought to care about Dash because it's very clever.
 
Walter said:
I'm sure we can find a solution here... How much $ or Dash do you think it would cost to hire a (junior) python dev to complete a project like this? This sort of situation is exactly what the decentralized budget from the blockchain was designed to help with.
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Presumably the idea or advantage is to improve OB's anonymity or privacy, which makes me wonder why have junior dev in charge of something like that.
In that regard Dash is different from other coins. For some random coin, it'd be enough to work (and supposedly have some strengths over BTC).
But for Dash, if you say "payments are anonymous, but parties' IP addresses are not" (or something similar like that), then anonymity or privacy certainly couldn't be characteristics of the final patch. It would be just "coin support added", which may or may not be enough (and worth the money).

Someone who understands Product Marketing should analyze the situation and make an assessment.
We're voicing opinions, some are even asking for estimates, although it's not even clear what needs to be done (example: is Tor support required or just desirable).
 
Walter said:
I'm sure we can find a solution here... How much $ or Dash do you think it would cost to hire a (junior) python dev to complete a project like this? This sort of situation is exactly what the decentralized budget from the blockchain was designed to help with.
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I had a quick look on upwork.com they charge around 20-30$ per hour. It is hard to estimate how much time it would take to complete such project. I think somebody well versed in programming should pick the coder do the negotiations and finalise the proposal. https://www.upwork.com/o/profiles/browse/c/web-mobile-software-dev/?q=phyton
 
dashboard said:
Presumably the idea or advantage is to improve OB's anonymity or privacy, which makes me wonder why have junior dev in charge of something like that.
In that regard Dash is different from other coins. For some random coin, it'd be enough to work (and supposedly have some strengths over BTC).
But for Dash, if you say "payments are anonymous, but parties' IP addresses are not" (or something similar like that), then anonymity or privacy certainly couldn't be characteristics of the final patch. It would be just "coin support added", which may or may not be enough (and worth the money).

Someone who understands Product Marketing should analyze the situation and make an assessment.
We're voicing opinions, some are even asking for estimates, although it's not even clear what needs to be done (example: is Tor support required or just desirable).
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Nothing wrong with having a junior dev doing the grunt work as long as it's supervised. I have no idea what would be required in order to get the job done, all I'm saying is that there is now a mechanism within the Dash ecosystem to allow us to fund this kind of project straight from the blockchain.

Walter
 
akhavr said:
I've checked OpenBazaar and the roadmap for the integration is pretty clear. The easier part would be just to substitute BTC for DASH in the entire OpenBazaar.

Much bigger goal would be to make OpenBazaar multicurrency, so one would be able to see both BTC and DASH (and other currency) products and pay in different ways.
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I think it would be best to take OpenBazaar, and create a Dash version because our Masternodes can host it. I don't think they have any compensation system set up, do they? For running nodes? How many nodes will they run? Dash could run 3300 nodes right from the start. If we take the whole concept (if it doesn't exist yet) and charge a tiny fee for every transaction, then pay the masternodes off of it, using the same system we have now for choosing who gets paid, but bypassing the mining network, it could be awesome. Then we could build multi currency on top of that.

It's not that I want to compete against OpenBazaar, but I just feel we could launch it far better, and it would run far smoother if we did it on our MN network.

Either way, I'd vote yes on this though, so it'd have my support!
 
RE: exposing IP addresses etc... that'd be ok, but I think the real important way this will work is through reputation. I know it takes a while to build up a reputation, but people can always link their ebay accounts, or reputation here on this forum or BCT.
 
Also, I don't know if Open Bazaar was created for drug sales and illicit items, but we discussed something like this about a year ago when Evan first created the MasterNodes, and I can't remember who, but it was someone in the legal profession who said that if there was an active way built in for people to red flag illicit stuff, and that stuff was deleted, then the Masternode owners should be safe from getting in trouble for such things.

Look, I gotta tell you, as an ebay user ( recovering) I know TONS of people would love to sell via some other outlet. Ebay takes 10% right off the top of your sales, INCLUDING shipping. Then Paypal takes nearly 5% more. You can't sell to people at a profit, they've made it impossible. Etsy was one way out of this, but their prices are also going up, and you still have to deal with Paypal. If we get this going, I for one, will start selling to my "people", forcing them to try to buy using Dash if they want my stuff, and I'll price it cheap! (what stuff? Ok, I'm a total old lady geek, BUT I only have 2 cats (one that won't come back into the house since I brought the new one home) I sew stuff, make things, crafts for hobbies, and I haven't tried selling any of my new ideas because I don't want to give any of those companies my business anymore. I've been waiting for something like this where we can establish a new marketplace!.

And if Open Bazaar is used for drugs, etc.... I can assure you that these other old ladies will never use it. It's too bad, but you couldn't change their minds. If there were a clean version, they would come like crazy! We already sell to each other without boarders. So the concept and need isn't lost on us!
 
Have a thought on the cross-currency stuff but as far as I know the openbazaar servers only host whatever items you put on them, think you can act as a temporary host so stores can stay online while the owners who are hosting them on their own clients are offline but that's likely optional. Not sure running a server benefits the network other than that.
 
See, that's not decentralized nor stable. This should be easy for both the buyer and seller. They should be able to expect to see everything available at all times, and come back to it when they've thought about it, even have a "save item" function. We can make this work for the average person, non-geek. They can't with their lack of full nodes. I'm being blunt, but I think it's a fatal flaw. Just my opinion because I'd like nothing more than for it to succeed.

I really don't see how such a system could possibly attract normal people. It'll already require a "browser" type wallet or something to install that is EASY. Easy, easy, easy, but when you have the world using your "ebay" things will NEVER be the same again. And frankly, that's what we need. And we need it yesterday :)

In fact we should slavishly emulate Ebay, so that users can set up their sales as much the same way as from where they're coming from. The fact that it's a completely different system doesn't have to show up in the UI.
 
See, I'm telling you, Ebay sellers HATE ebay, AND Paypal, because those two used to have decent fees, now they rape you every which way. It's a market for us bursting at the seams to find a new home!

And if there is no security risk, we could invite other people to run a node just for this, and they could also earn income on it, just set it up the same way. Maybe even make it opt out in case some people feel too uncomfortable with the possibility that their country won't like it.
 
Yah, I'm going to try to run it tonight or more likely tomorrow if I can get a little peace. It was a crazy day again, and my mind can't focus :p

But I have that page up and link so I can dive in when I feel up to it :)
 
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