payment queue

bhkien said:
Payment depends on stability of your masternode and its connection.
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are U correct my VPS have 65% RAM used and 5-10% CPU usage, I have super fast datacenter in amsterdam.... 100% uptime.... please give me more TIPS for MN because my MN waiting 10,5 days and ) and queue decrease from 33 to 24 in 24Hours...!!!! In my opinion it is MANIPULATION by developer who have many more knownleadge than other users.
 
nnx3 said:
are U correct my VPS have 65% RAM used and 5-10% CPU usage, I have super fast datacenter in amsterdam.... 100% uptime.... please give me more TIPS for MN because my MN waiting 10,5 days and ) and queue decrease from 33 to 24 in 24Hours...!!!! In my opinion it is MANIPULATION by developer who have many more knownleadge than other users.
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It's open source, you can examine it and compile it yourself.
 
nnx3 said:
are U correct my VPS have 65% RAM used and 5-10% CPU usage, I have super fast datacenter in amsterdam.... 100% uptime.... please give me more TIPS for MN because my MN waiting 10,5 days and ) and queue decrease from 33 to 24 in 24Hours...!!!! In my opinion it is MANIPULATION by developer who have many more knownleadge than other users.
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1 : check if your masternode is ENABLED by doing a grep on your IP address --> ./dash-cli masternode list full | grep -e IPADDRESS
2 : if your masternode is "ENABLED", then there are a few outcomes possible :

* MN payments is about 8 days, variance in MN payments can make that a few days longer or shorter.
* Masternode could skip receiving a MN payment if the masternode is very unlucky. This is a rare occassion and it happened to me a few times.
* Masternode could receive a double MN payment if the masternode is very lucky. This is a rare occassion and it happened to me a few times.

What does not help is talking about manipulation and scam
What does help is having some patience
 
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nnx3 said:
WHY some MN have a payment in 5 days and other in 10days?.... U have a proof on this link https://www.dashninja.pl/mndetails.html?mnpubkey=Xe5UoX6fBcWuMKsgf3DPk29t5kWbKo853n

open source.. hehe onyl few peoples have a time to study this scripts... please open eyes for the FACTS.!!
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Try to understand how it works before attacking it.

Here is a simple description:

If there are 4,500 Masternodes, then you begin at position #4500. Every time a MN gets paid, you move up one: to 4499...4498...etc.

However, once you get in the top 10% of the queue (in this case #450) you become eligible to get paid. Every MN that is eligible can be randomly selected, and in this example, they each have a 1 in 450 chance of getting selected for each block.

So you could get paid on the very first block after you get to #450. Or, you could get paid after 10 blocks, or 20, or 300. You could even get paid after more than 450 blocks, because each block means you have a 1 in 450 chance of getting selected, and you could just be unlucky. There is no guarantee that you'll get paid within 450 blocks.

All this means you could get paid very quickly (under 7 days), or it could take a long time (over 12 days). Experienced MN owners, however, will tell you that it averages out in the end.
 
You are making assumptions that cannot be proved by any existing code.

How payments actually work:
- every node is aware when some specific masternode was funded (thanks to blockchain)
- every new masternode has to wait at least 1 full cycle (n blocks equal to number of masternodes) before it gets its first payment
- active masternodes are ranked in 2 steps:
1. ordering by last payment for everyone
2. calculating deterministic rank based on mn collateral and blockhash for top 10% of masternodes from the step 1
Top masternode from step 2 is voted by other top10 masterndoes picked with a similar algo and is declared a "winner" which must be paid by miners (if it has more than 6 votes).

You can verify all of this in the code. No one (inc devs) have any influence or special privileges for their masternodes in that process.

PS. moving this to a separate thread as it has nothing to do with 12.2 release
 
ericsammons said:
Try to understand how it works before attacking it.

All this means you could get paid very quickly (under 7 days), or it could take a long time (over 12 days). Experienced MN owners, however, will tell you that it averages out in the end.
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have look few last week MN was between 4500-4700. Easy calculation give U info 4600 - 10% = 4140MN block every 3minutes = 480 block per day
4140/480 = 8.625 THat mens any MN should not have the payment faster than 8,6 DAYS

I give U link with MN who have a payment with 5-6 days. and easy calculation WHO give info about bugs!!!!
 
UdjinM6 said:
Top masternode from step 2 is voted by other top10 masterndoes picked with a similar algo and is declared a "winner" which must be paid by miners (if it has more than 6 votes).

You can verify all of this in the code.
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it means that If U are owners of many MN U can easy block other masternode (like me MN) by voting for your own, hehe its not fair play
 
nnx3 said:
are U correct my VPS have 65% RAM used and 5-10% CPU usage, I have super fast datacenter in amsterdam.... 100% uptime.... please give me more TIPS for MN because my MN waiting 10,5 days and ) and queue decrease from 33 to 24 in 24Hours...!!!! In my opinion it is MANIPULATION by developer who have many more knownleadge than other users.
Click to expand...

I you think so, you have better sell all your Dash now, its current price can make you profit a lot.
 
nnx3 said:
Easy calculation give U info 4600 - 10% = 4140MN block every 3minutes = 480 block per day
4140/480 = 8.625 THat mens any MN should not have the payment faster than 8,6 DAYS
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Dash block time is 2.5 min, not 3 minutes. So your own calculation drops to 7.2 days with 576 blocks per day. On top of that, some of the 4140 bottom nodes will crash, get restarted or shut down completely and drop out before they reach the top 10%, making the others rise to the top even faster.
 
Screen%20Shot%202017-12-04%20at%2009.22.24.png

Here are two masternodes which I own which haven't been paid one in 24 days and one in 1 month.
Basically they never were paid from when we moved to the new version of the code.
I raised the server supporting them to be 2048 MB. When I did this it was already a couple of weeks that they should have been paid.

According to dashcentral they are ready to be paid from a long time ago. And still the last one is in position 220 in the queue. Which means there are 219 nodes that have not been paid from even longer.

After about 8 days from when I raised the server all my masternode went offline and I had to restart them. I don't know what happened. I suspect it is possible to push a masternode out by DDOS attacking it. I remember it was theorised in some videos criticising dash but the answer was that this never happened. But maybe now with the new valuation of DASH it's starting to be worth doing it.

In any case, as it is right now it is not working. It is not working for me, and it is not working for the owners of the 219 masternodes above.

Also I notice that I took some unpopular positions in my voting decisions (*). And this could be used as a way to push people out of the masternode business (you cut their funding, they move away and they don't vote anymore)
As such if it is an attack it could be:
  1. an attack from outside (showing masternode are not a viable business, thus making people sell, and lowering the value of Dash);
  2. an attack from the inside for economic reasons (another masternode owner using this to move their masternode faster in the queue by pushing the other masternode above him out);
  3. an attack from the inside for political reasons.

(*) you can search for my posts in this forum if you want to know what I refer to. One even got 11 disagreement! I think it must be a record.
 
UdjinM6 said:
2. calculating deterministic rank based on mn collateral and blockhash for top 10% of masternodes from the step 1
Top masternode from step 2 is voted by other top10 masterndoes picked with a similar algo and is declared a "winner" which must be paid by miners (if it has more than 6 votes).
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WHAT?? So it is not random how the masternodes are paid, but they are voted? This is a terrible idea
 
UdjinM6 said:
Define "many" and calculate chances to do so.
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Sorry, it is not his or her job to calculate this. It is your job as member of the core group to prove that it is fair.
Beside every extra masternode that a person own or that a group of friends own will support each other raising the probability to be paid. In other words this is a system to create groups of people that support each other in spite of the rest of the community, thus creating fractures in the community. Cutting away people from the community. And making the price of Dash drop. Did I mention it's a terrible idea?
 
Pietro Speroni said:
...
Here are two masternodes which I own which haven't been paid one in 24 days and one in 1 month.
Basically they never were paid from when we moved to the new version of the code.
I raised the server supporting them to be 2048 MB. When I did this it was already a couple of weeks that they should have been paid.

According to dashcentral they are ready to be paid from a long time ago. And still the last one is in position 220 in the queue. Which means there are 219 nodes that have not been paid from even longer.

After about 8 days from when I raised the server all my masternode went offline and I had to restart them. I don't know what happened. I suspect it is possible to push a masternode out by DDOS attacking it. I remember it was theorised in some videos criticising dash but the answer was that this never happened. But maybe now with the new valuation of DASH it's starting to be worth doing it.

In any case, as it is right now it is not working. It is not working for me, and it is not working for the owners of the 219 masternodes above.

Also I notice that I took some unpopular positions in my voting decisions (*). And this could be used as a way to push people out of the masternode business (you cut their funding, they move away and they don't vote anymore)
As such if it is an attack it could be:
  1. an attack from outside (showing masternode are not a viable business, thus making people sell, and lowering the value of Dash);
  2. an attack from the inside for economic reasons (another masternode owner using this to move their masternode faster in the queue by pushing the other masternode above him out);
  3. an attack from the inside for political reasons.

(*) you can search for my posts in this forum if you want to know what I refer to. One even got 11 disagreement! I think it must be a record.
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I have no idea what happened to your masternodes either and I won't have any without some additional info like mn txid or maybe better a debug.log from one of your remote nodes. I highly doubt that your forum ranks are linked to your MN failures, I'd guess it's a coincidence but let's see what caused failures first before jumping the gun with conspiracy theories. You can PM me here on forum or send debug.log to [email protected] if you need help.

Pietro Speroni said:
Sorry, it is not his or her job to calculate this. It is your job as member of the core group to prove that it is fair.
...
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I disagree. She or he started with accusations that developers are affecting voting somehow. The code is open source and available for everyone, I also outlined the algo in plain English as simple as I can. The voting results are also there right in the network. Now it's her or his turn to prove me that it's not working as I described or GTFO. I'm a bit tired of trolls jumping around with their empty accusations, I have a work to do you know.

Pietro Speroni said:
...
Beside every extra masternode that a person own or that a group of friends own will support each other raising the probability to be paid. In other words this is a system to create groups of people that support each other in spite of the rest of the community, thus creating fractures in the community. Cutting away people from the community. And making the price of Dash drop. Did I mention it's a terrible idea?
Click to expand...

So, let's sum it up. Large Dash holders (masternode owners) will form groups to push the value of their investment (price of Dash) down, correct?
 
UdjinM6 said:
I have no idea what happened to your masternodes either and I won't have any without some additional info like mn txid or maybe better a debug.log from one of your remote nodes. I highly doubt that your forum ranks are linked to your MN failures, I'd guess it's a coincidence but let's see what caused failures first before jumping the gun with conspiracy theories. You can PM me here on forum or send debug.log to [email protected] if you need help.
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Hi UdjinM6, sure let's investigate this. I am sending you a message here.

UdjinM6 said:
I disagree. She or he started with accusations that developers are affecting voting somehow. The code is open source and available for everyone, I also outlined the algo in plain English as simple as I can. The voting results are also there right in the network. Now it's her or his turn to prove me that it's not working as I described or GTFO. I'm a bit tired of trolls jumping around with their empty accusations, I have a work to do you know.
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I don't know who this person is, but I don't think it's a troll. Sounds more like someone who made a big investment in DASH to buy a masternode and it's now frustrated that it's not paying back as it was explained. And my experience supports him.

It would be useful if there was a list of masternodes, with the average number of days in which have been paid and the last time they have been paid.

If you go to
https://www.dashninja.pl/
You can see there are many masternodes that haven't been paid in 2-4 weeks.

it's not ok.

Respect to who should prove it:
One thing is proving that is not working as you claim, another is proving that the algorithm you explained is fair.

Now if the behaviour was fully random, then it would be her job to prove it is not. But because I learn there is an element of voting involved (and voting is not always fair, it depends on the form of voting), it is the job of the core team (of which you are part, I gather) to show that this kind of voting is fair to all participants in this context. So I would say this is part of your work (or of someone's work in the core team)

UdjinM6 said:
So, let's sum it up. Large Dash holders (masternode owners) will form groups to push the value of their investment (price of Dash) down, correct?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be the first time that someone tries to have a personal short term gain at the expense of the collectivity long term behaviour. The bitcoin community has been ripe for this behaviour.
 
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