Many New Proposals are up - PLEASE VOTE !
- Thread starter tungfa
- Start date
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
So I can't vote without 1000 dash?
Yea I watched it. THanks tho!
OK in that case let me supplement my answer to your question. Dash's governance system relies in its masternode operators which are the people running the collateralized nodes on the Dash network. The reason why this governance system works is because you are relying on people that are invested and have a stake on the network success but also are providing infrastructure and services to the network, so it is not only about stake but also about participation.
By using this ingenious model Dash is able to remain pure Proof of Work for security where it matters but also drive the network decisions based on the risk and involvement of stakeholders. Is not only about owning some Dash, we will have many people that will invest in a little DASH or simply use it for its many advantages, instant confirmations etc, but not all users wish to or will get invested to the level of running infrastructure and participating in governance. Even more so in the future when we reach a more mainstream audience.
So it is not a system in which everyone is equal that would be more akin to socialism which we dont support, it is really a system that fosters open free market participation and people can take as much risk as they are able to. This is why anyone that meets the requirements can become a masternode without needing permission, but it is not an intrinsic right that comes just from holding DASH it is more involved than that. In the future many users wont be involved in running the infrastructure and governing the network, they will just be users and enjoy the decentralized financial services the network offers. We are still at the early stages of the project so many people joining now are joining as investors, infrastructure suppliers and governance representatives but this will change over time specially when more user friendly services are released and more people will join just as standard users.
As always, very eloquently put.
As I've suggested before, Dash's governance model is not really a democracy. It's more of a meritocracy. The more you invest in it, the more participation rights you potentially have and the more you have to gain/loose. It not about how rich you are, it's about how strongly you participate. You can be a Dash gzillionaire with zero MN's. Your participation is zero, except for market discovery purposes.
Which in practical terms is an extremely interesting and novel working model that drives our concept of DAO. Certainly does not equate to a pure investment versus return situation. That I would call pure capitalism with market discovery. Dash is beyond that.
In a pure capitalist environment, you put your stake towards an investment in hopes of a more favourable return, offering pure governance to a third party. In high level capitalism, you invest in something or someone, with high hopes on their talent and expertise, and just ride that wave. In a meritocratic environment, your stake represents not only concrete market value, but also functional value. These two, while hand in hand, are in essence independent. So your return is fixed and independent of market valuation, but it's functional aspect decision making drives the market itself. Almost seems like a paradox but in essence is the opposite.
No matter what the market value, 1k Dash staked on a MN will always earn you a fixed dividend for the service you provide to the network. That is hard-coded. Extremely interesting as we all well know. The more network "power" you have, the higher the risk you actually endure, but not from a divindend point, but from decision-based market conditions. Your own direct opinion and vote governing the functional aspect of the network. Brilliant!
So while mathematically all votes are equal, those who believe the most in Dash have a bigger say in it's direction. They're also the one's providing the biggest service to the network, and also enduring the biggest market risk on it's direction. In essence they inherently have more merit.
Hence, meritocracy.
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Most of that made sense, but i'm curious about this hard coded amount of dash for a "masternode". Wouldn't the people who got in cheap basically run the show? Since the amount is static and the apprise has risen dramatically since the launch, wouldn't a few people control most of the nodes and voting powers?
Correct me if I'm wrong, that just seems to by understanding from what i've been hearing/reading on the forums as a lurker for a few weeks. Finally joined up because Amanda made it seem very interesting, but its very hard to understand.
camosoul
Well-known member
Make me!
No, really. Make me. Fix the budget system. Make voting part of the proof of service. Its the most important thing that MNs are supposed to be doing, and they aren't required to do it... We have retards participating when they shouldn't, and smart people ignoring it because they'd rather money hose from the deck of their boat while failing to do the main, most important thing that MNs are supposed to be doing...
O RLY? Then why isn't participation mandatory? Create an "abstain" vote option to force them to at least show up... Also enables the ability to retract a vote without having to oppose. With this addition, proof of participation can exist without forcing a yes/no.
Abstain currently == Null.
Create the abstain option so that there can be a differentiation between those not even bothering to pay attention, and those who are showing up, but don't feel fit to influence the outcomes.
Go look at the thread about the retail integration proposal. Retards abound with retard demands. Make them think about it a little....
Currently:
Yes == Yes
No == No
Not even paying attention == Abstain
Better way:
Yes == Yes
No == No
Abstain == Abstain
Not even paying attention == Null
Rack up enough Nulls in X number of blocks and Proof of Service punts you. No more payments for losers who don't do their job.
Better; don't punt them. Let them keep servicing IX and Mixing, but don't pay them!
If you refuse to show up for work, do you still think you're going to get a paycheck? DASH is currently allowing that.
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Wow man you got super lucky! Congrats!
And what do you mean there is no abstain in voting? Thats craziness! Let's not go against thousands of years of evolution guys!
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/dec/05/realestate/re-associations5 -"Abstaining isn't same as voting 'no'"
http://www.artoftheory.com/the-ethics-of-voting/
Excerpt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention
There is a reason this is built into most modern day voting platforms of any importance. All businesses should operate this way. Especially an online businesses that are building a crypto currency with governing aspects... Otherwise it just going back in time when noone understood the important of abstain votes!
This applies to Dash voting in a very obvious way, no? I mean I know I barely understand the tech yet but abstain voting seems like obvious stuff to even myself!
Crazy. Owell, I'm sure someone will fix it soon enough! The Dash currency is still young right? Liek 2 yrs or sumthin?
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camosoul
Well-known member
The way abstaining works now, there's no way to parse it in Proof of Service. The most important feature of masternodes is open loop and unmonitorable. And thus, unenforceable.
Adding the "abstain" option to the voting system isn't because abstaining needs to exist. It needs to be there to make the process closed-loop and enforceable. You're still not voting either way, but you're proving that you showed up. Then, those who don't show up can be penalized. It's not possible without the abstain option.
It's not like you're hiding. All masternodes are known....
If this were a government, I'd agree with you. But this is about Proof of Service to the DASH network, not ultimate truth and philosophy. If a Masternpode isn't even showing up to do it's most important job, it needs to be penalized. That can't be done unless we can define null as a non-participant. Currently, abstainers and nulls are both the same thing. The only way to change that, is for abstainers to actually vote that way. We can't make the nulls show up by definition.
Currently, polishing node40's knob is more important than than the most fundamental aspect that those very nodes are supposed to be fulfilling... Biggest and most obvious conflict of interest, ever....
When elected officials abstain from a floor vote, they generally are marked as abstain. Absent is whent hey don't even show up.... This is how we know they're at least showing up to do their fucking job...
there is a difference, and unless we track it in some way, there's no way to include it in the proof of service.
So, I re-iterate. If I'm supposed to be voting with all these MNs I have; make me! I'm like an obnoxious senator that knows my stupid leftist constituency will keep re-electing me no matter how much I neglect my duties. Whatcha gonna do about it? I live the life of a king on your tax money, and I refuse to do the job I;m being paid to do! So what? What ya gonna do?
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Macrochip
Active member
This deserves way more attention. Masternode operators have one job and they get paid plenty so the least we can ask of them is make a damn virtual cross. We already know DGbB is not a democracy. Among many other reasons in a democracy voters don't get paid to vote (they rather try to vote someone they have to pay the least), so sanctioning MNs by non-payment is more than fair. This shouldn't even become a "proposal" it's common sense and should become part of DGbB naturally in the next protocol update.
Vedran Yoweri
Active member
I don't agree. Let's vote.
demo
Well-known member
Advertising the hardcoded numbers 45-45-10... And everyone applauded. How sad...
No one explains why 45-45-10 is right, and any other combination is wrong. But still everyone applauded.
Random hardcoded numbers, whithout a theory behind, are inherently wrong. And they should be voted.
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halso
Active member
w
why are you still here?
demo
Well-known member
Because you should vote whith numbers. This is your destiny. You cannot avoid that. If you are trying to avoid it, this will be your end.