Development Updates - July 15th

eduffield said:
The desired mixing depth can be selected in the client GUI.
Click to expand...
Could you make this semi-random? If you let everyone set whatever they want in the wallet from 2-8, almost all people will either select 2 for speed, or 8 for more stealth, and nothing in between. This would give a fairly decent assumption an attacker might be able to find a way to leverage when trying to trace coins. Instead offering "about 4-6" which would be actually done as pick a random number of what the user chose plus or minus 2 cycles would destroy that assumption.
 
fusecavator said:
Could you make this semi-random? If you let everyone set whatever they want in the wallet from 2-8, almost all people will either select 2 for speed, or 8 for more stealth, and nothing in between. This would give a fairly decent assumption an attacker might be able to find a way to leverage when trying to trace coins. Instead offering "about 4-6" which would be actually done as pick a random number of what the user chose plus or minus 2 cycles would destroy that assumption.
Click to expand...

This is a very good point. Let the user select from a set of ranges. For example -- Basic anonymity: 2-4, moderate anonymity: 3-6, and high anonymity: 6-8.

Then the client decides the mixing depth in a random fashion based on the selected range.
 
Cannot wait till RC4 is an understatement

Evan + Dev team you are amazing - thank you for changing the crypto landscape forever.
 
What happens with change. You can't predict how much will be needed for a future payment, so I have to guess you'll send out more coins than needed and get change back? Will this be yet another address? Or how does that work please?
 
Very impressive!! Can't wait to watch this all unfold over the coming weeks. Really a groundbreaking approach and did not see this approach coming at all.

**I hate to be that guy - but there is a typo in the flowchart, on the upper left: "anonymizatoin" rather than "anonymization". :)
 
thelonecrouton said:
So, will no one address ever contain more than the largest possible denominated amount? And the client just groups them together appropriately for transactions, which are redenominated at the other end? Because that renders the whole blockchain entropic sludge and makes timing analysis impossible...
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How is a timing analysis done? Does this make it easier to double spend without being caught? This might be important to bring up to Evan (in case he doesn't check here again)

I'm also wondering how much info this adds to the blockchain. Are all these transactions going to cause bloat?

I'm also still wondering how the change is handled?

I hope Evan heard Kristov's suggestion on using powers of 2 to denominate :)
 
Got home, fixed dinner, did stuff - seen the SPIKE on the charts - came here - FOUND THIS ! ! !
<<< can't wait to see what happens next >>>
teehee . . . like a school girl :-D
 
How awesome a group of crypto forging, pushing, innovative, badasses, above all the rest are you guys. I mean the trolls on the bitcoin forum catch my eyes with new coins so I go to look at them just out of curiosity. Well I know curiosity killed the cat so I know better than to abandon this ship. Never am I in awe after reading what all the other coins are doing compared to DRK. This DARKSEND+ is just so technologically far ahead and above, guess I should just say superior, to all the rest of the advertised tor network that has been infiltrated bla bidy bla talk sent out to the poor people who maybe did not understand the need for this type of masternode implementation. This flowchart explains very detailed processes and mathematical processing in my kind of terms so I know my leg is not being pulled into crypto fool land. I appreciate the updates very much and am just so astonished by this communities hard work and dedication to make this the new standard in privacy centric denerology : ) . I cannot wait to see what is next. Being able to have a looking glass in to the future of cryptographic monetary processing is so just bad ass to the bone its mind blowing to think I am part of the future now. I just can't wait until more people actually understand a little bit more. I think when the new wallet GUI comes out I am going to make a YouTube if knowone is opposed. One from obtaining bitcoin to buying dark on one of the exchanges maybe this is my chance to set up my bitfinex. Ah I'll stop now, but did I say how exciting all this is?
 
crowning said:
eduffield said:
[...]Every 10 blocks, user clients network-wide will send any unmixed, traceable Darkcoins in their possession through an anonymization phase. In this phase, Masternodes are used in chained succession to mix the coins they receive from the network and break them down into homogenous denominations. After being processed by a minimum of 2 Masternodes, the coins are either sent to the next Masternode in the chain or back to the user’s wallet at randomly generated change addresses.
Click to expand...
What happens when one (or all) masternodes involved break down/get hacked/do intentionally bad things/... while _my_ coins are on their trip to anonymity?
Click to expand...

Was this question not answered so far because...

  1. it's incredibly dumb because it's already answered on page one of a manual I don't know of?
  2. it's even more dumb because it's trivial to find out by firing up some Masternodes in a source-code debugger?
  3. it's already answered in about 10000 posts but I always failed to enter the proper search string in the forum search?
  4. I'm already on everyone's ignore list :grin:?
  5. nobody cares because Evan knows what he's doing?
  6. nobody knows (really?)
  7. [ insert your preferred option here ]

Curious minds would like to know...
 
crowning said:
Was this question not answered so far because...

  1. it's incredibly dumb because it's already answered on page one of a manual I don't know of?
  2. it's even more dumb because it's trivial to find out by firing up some Masternodes in a source-code debugger?
  3. it's already answered in about 10000 posts but I always failed to enter the proper search string in the forum search?
  4. I'm already on everyone's ignore list :grin:?
  5. nobody cares because Evan knows what he's doing?
  6. nobody knows (really?)
  7. [ insert your preferred option here ]

Curious minds would like to know...
Click to expand...
The coins are never in the control of the masternodes, so you'll still have them.
Here is the process:
Your client sends what transaction it wants to do to the masternode.
The mastenode crafts a transaction joining multiple peoples' transactions together, however it needs all of them to sign off on it.
The masternode sends out the that transaction to the people involved, so they can check it and sign off on it.
The clients check to see that their inputs and outputs are in the transaction sent to them.
If they agree that it looks right, they send a signature for it to the masternode.
Once the masternode collects up the signatures, it can publish the transaction.
As the coins are never under the masternode's control, if it fails to complete the process your coins will still be in your wallet, just not mixed.
 
fusecavator said:
The coins are never in the control of the masternodes, so you'll still have them.
Here is the process:
Your client sends what transaction it wants to do to the masternode.
The mastenode crafts a transaction joining multiple peoples' transactions together, however it needs all of them to sign off on it.
The masternode sends out the that transaction to the people involved, so they can check it and sign off on it.
The clients check to see that their inputs and outputs are in the transaction sent to them.
If they agree that it looks right, they send a signature for it to the masternode.
Once the masternode collects up the signatures, it can publish the transaction.
As the coins are never under the masternode's control, if it fails to complete the process your coins will still be in your wallet, just not mixed.
Click to expand...
Will another attempt to mix them be made automatically, or must the user do it manually?
Must every client wait for every other client whose coins their coins are being mixed with? How many clients is that on a typical 8-masternode transaction?
Thanks.
 
I'm blown away with the speed of development going on here.. So - first off - hats off to the dev team and everyone involved in the project for all their hard work!
A couple of things have crossed my mind though...

I totally get the need for multiple masternode mixing, however:

1. How does the math work when it comes to all of these additional transactions, i.e. 1 'real' transaction could take many multiples of that during the mixing process to succeed in creating a truly anonymous transaction? Is that correct? Will it therefore exponentially increase the rate of growth in the blockchain at an unsustainable rate?
2. Kristov Atlas mentioned the possibility of denominations used in the mixing process being in a base 2 form rather than decimal in his recent web vid. What are the Dev's initial thoughts on his comments?

I'm a relative newcomer to crypto so hope my questions don't come across a bit dumb. Hopefully it'll stimulate some interesting discussion...!

Thanks.
Walt
 
Last edited by a moderator:
fusecavator said:
The masternode sends out the that transaction to the people involved, so they can check it and sign off on it.
The clients check to see that their inputs and outputs are in the transaction sent to them.
If they agree that it looks right, they send a signature for it to the masternode.
Click to expand...

That feedback from the Masternode back to the client was the point I was missing....thanks a lot for this great explanation :thumbsup:
 
Walter said:
1. How does the math work when it comes to all of these additional transactions, i.e. 1 'real' transaction could take many multiples of that during the mixing process to succeed in creating a truly anonymous transaction? Is that correct? Will it therefore exponentially increase the rate of growth in the blockchain at an unsustainable rate?
Click to expand...
Extra transactions will cause extra bloat. Fortunately, space is cheap, and the blockchain isn't growing that quickly, so it's unlikely to become unmanageable any time soon. If it truly did get too large(keep in mind that bitcoin's blockchain is only up to about 20GB, which although annoying to download, is hardly significant for current hard drives), there are some things that could be done to try to lower it. The current block data compresses very well, and just for the sake of testing, I ran it through winrar and was able to decrease the size by more than 40%. Obviously that isn't a format you'd try to run in-line, but I'm sure you'd get significant gains with something else that you could use to directly save and load compressed data. Another possibility is blockchain pruning could be attempted to be done, although that would likely be controversial, as it would break the ability to verify all the way back to the beginning.
 
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