Dash Town Hall 2022

D

DashTownHallAdmin

New member
Dash town hall is a governance site similar to Dash central or nexus. The site offers Request for proposals, public voting and eventually delegates. We will also be making some efforts to co-ordinate the various discussion platforms (Dash central, forum, Reddit etc...)

The major advantages the site currently offers:
  • Simple Leaderboard - Proposal overview
  • Request for proposal functionality (Using the draft proposal system)
  • Public vote to express community opinion on both active and draft proposals
  • Vote Delegation Guide
  • Public votes displayed in a way to allow direct comparison with MNO votes
Dash town hall mission:
  • Building a meritocracy where dash users discuss, vote, contribute or simply audit any and all aspects of the Dash treasury system
  • Improving the treasury system where proposal concepts and requests for proposals can be evaluated by the community without financial commitment from either Proposal owners or the treasury
  • Increasing trust and community involvement by making the site multi-lingual
  • Setting the standard for transparency

Roadmap / Planned features:
  • Historical records of each proposal cycle
  • Historical MNO vote counts
  • Historical records organized by proposal owner
  • Historical Public vote counts
  • Forum/Discussion platform
  • Vote prioritized comments
  • Tagging system where you could see "top concerns" and "top benefits" that could be created and voted on, and also filter comments by the same tags, items such as "insufficient transparency", or "reputable team",...etc
  • The 'reputable team' and 'insufficient transparency' would probably be a 'sticky' at the top of the discussion right? That way you could see them grouped as in 23 people say they need more transparency…
  • Import comments from other platforms (DC/Reddit/etc)
IF the network approves of this proposal long term (several consecutive budget cycles) we'll start building a mobile application to make governance and voting more convenient/accessible. This app could have these features:

  • Notifications of voting deadline, proposal status changes etc.
  • Proposal Status change notifications
  • Masternode monitoring tool including notifications
  • Masternode Status change notifications
  • Delegates Voting History
  • Proposal Owner Accounting / Fund tracking
  • Masternode Best practices
  • Transparency guide for proposal owners
  • Bounties tied to requests for proposals
  • including mobile voting
 
If the Dash treasury were to fund this Dash Town Hall site, would it require ongoing monthly funding? Would our DAO need to continue paying for it forever? For a while? Or would it be a one-time or several-months complete payment, and then the website would always continue to be operational after that?

I think Dash Nexus died as soon as it became underfunded, didn't it?
 
Onetime - i didn't follow the fall of Nexus that closely, you probably know better than I do what happened there.

I think the DAO should expect to get what they pay for. Each of the features listed above take resources to build and maintain...so which features does the network want? Do they want moderators? These aren't questions for one person to answer. Each of these questions needs to be posed to the DAO...

What are your thoughts about Dash Watch? If/When the DAO has a multi-billion dollar budget, how would you expect the hundreds or thousands of contractors to be supervised/managed? Should we just expect people to do these kinds of services as a hobby? If so, would the network be limited at all? If not, how do we know how much to pay them for their time/services? Who should be keeping track of all that? Just MNO's?

My plan is to submit these proposals (with a 1 dash ask) for approximately 6 months to a year (depending on how the votes go). After that, I'd like to basically submit proposals for increasingly interesting features. What features do you think we need? What features are not necessary?

The DTH COULD be an app that makes web3 fun and interesting for users outside of our dash community...or it could continue to be a site with very few features and very few users.
 
DashTownHallAdmin said:
What are your thoughts about Dash Watch?
Click to expand...

I will strongly support whatever revival of Dashwatch.

I want the proposals to be judged in long term. This leads to the judgement of the voters who supported the proposals. And of course the next step will be the punishment of whoever votes unwisely (this can be proved by the evolution of the proposals he/she supported) by diminishing his/her voting power. Someone may argue that it would be nicer to reward the good voters rather than punish the bad voters. This is a wrong decision, because the bad decisions are countless, while the good decisions are limited. So if you incentivize the good voters and not punish the bad ones then the bad voters, having no immediate cost when deciding unlimited bad decisions, they will sink the ship.

Voters should be judged, and Dash community should escape the dark pit of plutocracy and approach meritocracy.
 
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I think Dash Watch is/was a valuable resource. I'll make some efforts to reach out to that team to try and recover any continuity we might be able to use to rebuild this functionality. Is this something everyone else is interested in? What other features do people think we need in this kind of site/app?

Regarding the voter reputation scoring... I'm in no hurry to suggest massive structural changes. We could make improvements for sure, but the exact mechanism you've described here leaves a lot of questions. For example, who would judge the voter's? On what basis? Any judgement on voters being 'good' or 'bad' requires some kind of subjective measure. Dash Watch was doing a good job of trying to remain unbiased and objective, but then this project is limited and can't/won't offer opinions on which proposals might be a better bang for the buck. It's a sticky widget.
 
My solution is to use delegates and to encourage/help MNO's to delegate their votes. In this way, MNO's could review the voting history of the delegates and could remove their delegated votes at any time. What do you think of this solution?
 
DashTownHallAdmin said:
My solution is to use delegates and to encourage/help MNO's to delegate their votes. In this way, MNO's could review the voting history of the delegates and could remove their delegated votes at any time. What do you think of this solution?
Click to expand...


Delegated votes are hard for indvidual delegates to manage, having MNOs delegate and pull makes it hard to manage, a better solution
would be something like what Crowdnode does for its users, have one account manage all the delegated votes and have TownHall users
pick a delegate and then aggregate that data into one master vote so as not to add extra workload to registered delegates.
 
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AgnewPickens - This crowdnode like solution is exactly what I'd envisioned for the 'public vote' function of the site, so that MNO's could delegate to either the public vote or to an individual delegate. Ideally the Dash Town Hall would also serve as a custodian of the votes, and would automate the whole process...eventually allowing all parties to vote via mobile. Custodial services (just like anything else) are a double edged sword, but in my opinion it's probably the most pragmatic for now. The whole idea behind the Dash Town Hall is to make it easier for all parties (MNO/Delegates/Dash Hodlers) to vote and take part in the DAO.

This custodial service could be done manually initially. I'll have to do some more research into how Crowdnode has designed their system. it's quite robust from what I remember. Is everyone satisfied with that system? They seem to me to be really transparent, so could we just rinse and repeat their methods?

This is something that would be worth getting the ball rolling on...getting the piping ready for whenever guys want to delegate their votes, and connecting it to the public vote portion of the site. I'll put it near the top of the list.

If more people want to see this a reality...give this post a thumbs up or reply.
 
1. Requires project rebrand or at the very least shorten it to DTH.
2. Drastically simplify, beautify and focus on just one or two functions.

The hardest part of all this is trying to migrate MNOs away from Dash Central. It is like trying to wean the bad habits of lazy customers at supermarkets and banks. Once the habit is formed, it is extremely difficult and costly to woo them away. This is why you really need to simplify, beautify and focus on one or two functions.

1. 100% focus on the mobile experience with the absolute minimum of permissions.
2. 100% open source license. Submit to f-droid plus apk download.
3. Readability:
a) extract first line of proposal and extract link to image, or​
b) alternatively, use AI / stock photography for each proposal.​
4. Single page scrolling for all proposals, plus one tap voting and comments. No click-throughs / back button actions.
5. Allow comment editing.
6. Once a day, bot-post all comments / updates to Dash Central with post signature pointing to your app.
7. Do not succumb to additional functionality / feature creep. Your one and only goal is to migrate users away from Dash Central with a fast, positive and simplified experience.
 
TheNetworkIsBiggerThanYou said:
my suggestion is that every proposal should be linked to a specific problem they are attempting to solve and the metric by which they are to evaluated against.
Click to expand...

Sir, are you familiar with the KPI's that Dash Watch was using? This is relevant to our discussion of subjective vs objective metrics because who sets these problems/metrics and who should judge the PO's on their success? IMHO we should be carefully using delegates who would be able to give their opinions on each proposal and the MNO's can judge the delegates on their performance/opinions. What do you think of this?
 
DashTownHallAdmin said:
Sir, are you familiar with the KPI's that Dash Watch was using? This is relevant to our discussion of subjective vs objective metrics because who sets these problems/metrics and who should judge the PO's on their success? IMHO we should be carefully using delegates who would be able to give their opinions on each proposal and the MNO's can judge the delegates on their performance/opinions. What do you think of this?
Click to expand...
delegate idea is interesting. MNOs need to simply stop funding projects that don't provide objective and measurable outcomes. These outcomes should be coherently mapped to a problem that the community is tracking
 
TheNetworkIsBiggerThanYou said:
delegate idea is interesting. MNOs need to simply stop funding projects that don't provide objective and measurable outcomes. These outcomes should be coherently mapped to a problem that the community is tracking
Click to expand...

Sir,

I don't disagree with you, but maybe we can explore it a little further. Do you think the DTH might be an appropriate place to track these outcomes/objectives? why/why not? Who would write them? What's the mechanism for evaluating them? In the vision I have for the DTH the Delegates would each write a roadmap for the dash network as a whole, as well as set the KPI's (known performance indicators) for each project/proposal owner. The MNO's would then evaluate these as a whole and delegate their votes to the delegates who matched closest to their philosophy. What do you think of this solution?

I think we could really make some progress here by building a theoretical model that we can implement in the DTH.
 
I believe a think tank to make suggestions and help guide MNO/Proposal Owner decision making would be more useful than delegates, personally. The fact that the network has been delegating marketing decisions to a bunch of non-marketing experts in the marketing hub is evidence enough that the delegate system is unlikely to yield significant results (or generally, be coherent). As the treasury increases it would be useful to have a thinktank that does research on marketing, technical considerations, finance, etc.

A ranked system similar to a reddit page sorted 'top' would be a good way to display, solicit, and debate problem statements.

Once you have the list of problems, people submitting pre-proposal/proposals can associate the proposal with the problem(s) it is solving.

The KPI would ultimately be up to the PO to submit, but if DTH provides a template I think it would help with compliance. The template could explicitly contain the objective of the proposal in a character limited format, and a section on what KPIs map to the objective.
 
Historical leaderboard you say...?

#1 Ranked Pre-Proposal on DASH Forum:


Screen Shot 2023-02-10 at 5.25.28 PM.png


 
Sir,

Are you just trying to highlight that the forum's pre-proposal section is not so active? I'm afraid I may have missed your point, but I'm interested to know more about your thoughts on how we can improve any of it.

Ben
 
Hi Ben,

Thanks for reaching out... To clarify, I was noting there seems to be no historical leaderboard to rank pre-proposals.

Our #1 ranked pre-proposal was Dash as Title Sponsor & Official Payment Partner for the San Francisco Marathon, ‘The world’s first crypto marathon' receiving 4,000 proposal views and 50 comments on Dash Forum.

Ultimately not passed by MNs it was a lost opportunity to raise your profile and merchant adoption, Dash all but invisible and downranked to #64 from the mid-teens.

It remains a valid marketing concept and while SFM remain open to the partnership, the relative high application fees discounts further attempts at voting.

Might you consider historical ranking a clear indicator of a project's merit, and worthy of funding?

Adrian
 
Adrian,

The DTH is setup to evaluate draft proposals by using public votes. Public votes are currently associated with a unique email address, but later will be tied to those users who own dash, but not enough for a MN. In this way, you'd get more of a 'common user' determining the value of these projects. There are arguments to be made for the biases associated with that system, and later we might also be able to add MN's votes and Delegates votes (separate from the DAO) to help us evaluate these projects.

At this point, I think it's just an improvement to have any kind of vote-ranked system to sort these kinds of projects and to give Proposal Owners some guidance as to how to improve their approach without having to submit a new proposal each time. Each proposal also increases the workload for everyone involved in the voting process further adding to the voter fatigue.

If you think that there's merit in this project...there needs to be a space for you to build that argument without having to spend money every month to refine it.
 
You should not do that, MNOs have made their opinions clear, fractional voting is not wanted at all.
 
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