Dash "stock split"

[Benglian]

Thinking about this, perhaps a better idea would be just to call the USD value of a wallet 'DASH$' equivalent and have people spend DASH$ rather than the core Dash value of a coin. People buying on exchanges would get DASH$ 100 when spending 100 USD, Evolution subscriptions could be denominated in DASH$ etc. But send and receive would have to be in DASH$, rather than 'DASH value coins'. (DASHVC)

This is effectively what exists now, but with some shift in the focus of the perceived value store token to DASH$, rather than DASHVC

 

[solarguy]

Thinking about this, perhaps a better idea would be just to call the USD value of a wallet 'DASH$' equivalent and have people spend DASH$ rather than the core Dash value of a coin. People buying on exchanges would get DASH$ 100 when spending 100 USD, Evolution subscriptions could be denominated in DASH$ etc. But send and receive would have to be in DASH$, rather than 'DASH value coins'. (DASHVC)

This is effectively what exists now, but with some shift in the focus of the perceived value store token to DASH$, rather than DASHVC

 

[solarguy]

I am unconvinced we have to emulate the mighty dollar. We're allowed to be different and in fact, we had better be different. And my bedrock position is, before we go changing code, I would have to see a really good user experience survey that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that this would increase adoption by a meaningful amount.

 

[Benglian]

I am unconvinced we have to emulate the mighty dollar. We're allowed to be different and in fact, we had better be different. And my bedrock position is, before we go changing code, I would have to see a really good user experience survey that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that this would increase adoption by a meaningful amount.

The trouble with this is who are you going to survey and what questions are you going to ask them?
Do you ask Crypto users who will respond with "Crypto FTW!" or do you ask the other 99% of society who will respond with "Crypto...what...?"

 

[solarguy]

The trouble with this is who are you going to survey and what questions are you going to ask them?
Do you ask Crypto users who will respond with "Crypto FTW!" or do you ask the other 99% of society who will respond with "Crypto...what...?"

User experience surveys are a science unto themselves. The "Stock Split" idea is that we will get mass adoption much faster (that means lots of normies, aka non-crypto folks) than if we do not do the revaluation or "stock split" to make the Dash worth a dollar, or ten dollars, or whatever is deemed optimal.

So, an appropriate demographic could be chosen, and good sample methods could be applied. But I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It is the job of the people who advocate for the stock split to find the convincing evidence to sell it to the Masternodes. As a courtesy, I gave one possible solution for providing objective evidence, as opposed to 3 or 4 anecdotes about people's friends or relatives who are unwilling to adopt Dash because it's expensive.

As a masternode owner, I am unwilling to risk my share in a billion dollar business based on a few fuzzy anecdotes. Further, as noted previously, to make this evidence valid and convincing, the design and selection protocol of the user experience survey would have to be designed in full view of the masternode community to make certain it is not biased (either way) and really does answer the question in a fair and convincing manner.

 

[Benglian]

"Further, as noted previously, to make this evidence valid and convincing, the design and selection protocol of the user experience survey would have to be designed in full view of the masternode community to make certain it is not biased (either way) and really does answer the question in a fair and convincing manner."

This is the heart of the matter, and as I referred to above...we all live in our own bubbles...and these are evidently Crypto-based. That means it would be hard for those same people to determine if a survey is fair and unbiased within a community that we live outside of (the crypto-noobs).

There is evidence that humans are creatures of habit and prefer the status quo to change most of the time. I don't think its contentious to infer that 'the man on the Clapham omnibus' would prefer to process value amounts in a manner they are used to, with two decimal places. Could people be expected to know if 0.0137 DASH is a fair price for a cup of coffee today? I know I can't do that math in my head walking past the coffee shop. For mass adoption to occur I'll contend that either DASH has to be so far superior to fiat that it would no longer be just money, or just a lot superior and yet very similar to todays fiat in terms of the mechanisms of usage.

Mass adoption means that the masses would adopt it. That means the rich and the intelligent, but also the poor, and the intellectually challenged...and the capitalist and the commie.

Its no easy task, but the closer it can seem to todays money, while being vastly superior, the closer mass adoption will become.

 

[solarguy]

"Its no easy task, but the closer it can seem to todays money, while being vastly superior, the closer mass adoption will become."

It's a nice theory. But without evidence, it's just a theory. If you want to change it, bring me evidence.

 

[Benglian]

I guess we'll find out now with Corion, which purports to be doing exactly what I proposed...

" Built on Ethereum Classic, the CORION stable-price token eliminates the guesswork that comes with fluctuating prices. Its algorithm enables special automated inflation-deflation control, assuring the stability of the CORION token as a stable means of payment worldwide."

http://bitcoinist.com/corion-announces-ico-details/

 

[camosoul]

Probably, in your surrounding, you don't experience "average" people mathematical skills.

If I make excuses for an inability to do something as simple as move a decimal point, people die.

If a person sees no reason to differentiate between pennies and dollars, even after I've take great pains to explain that it's in their best interest, I see no reason not to completely screw them. They deserve it.

Fuck lazy, stupid people. They contribute nothing anyway. You lose nothing by excluding them.

 

[Benglian]

Fuck lazy, stupid people. They contribute nothing anyway. You lose nothing by excluding them.

Its one way of ordering a society, I guess...but not one I would want to live in.

How about "Poor stupid people, who can't understand through no fault of their own. I, who can understand, will help them to become productive contributors to society through distributing my wisdom amongst them."

Oh wait...I guess that's what you're doing through your commentary, right Camo(no)soul ?

 

[Friend]

If a person sees no reason to differentiate between pennies and dollars, even after I've take great pains to explain that it's in their best interest, I see no reason not to completely screw them.

It is not exactly my case here.
Dollars and pennies are ok. Well known, widely adopted. "$12.34 for your dinner, Sir"

What is generally considered repulsive is this:

Fuck lazy, stupid people. They contribute nothing anyway.

They contribute nothing creative, new, innovative - maybe.
But I bet you can think of, at least one, very significant thing, they can contribute to our project.

 

[flailingjunk]

We should definitely do this. The PR coup of being the only coin to successfully do what many coins have talked about doing would be worth it. We have the ability to make big decisions. Let's show it off.

 

[Friend]

We should definitely do this. The PR coup of being the only coin to successfully do what many coins have talked about doing would be worth it. We have the ability to make big decisions. Let's show it off.

Maybe.

What is on my mind however, is that people from the Core Team gave it some consideration:

I really wish we could do this, but after hashing it out, it would be far too risky. There are so many integrations with other companies now, and getting everyone to upgrade, and avoiding confusion.... the time is over for such a big change. Eventually, we will come up with another solution, but for now, the wallet will show denominations in your choice of currency such as USD, Euro Pound, etc... spreading out to as many currencies as possible. The option is still there to choose mDash (Dots) or Duffs in the future when fiat money is no longer dominant or around.

Anyway, it simply isn't as easy as moving a decimal point and if people lose money because of this, that would be truly devastating. Even if we tried this, to make sure everyone was on board and that it happened smoothly, it would require more developers, marketers, etc... to pull it off. It would take away from Evolution otherwise, and we haven't even filled the Evolution jobs as it is.

I want you to know that the core team, especially Ryan, really understands the usability issue, and considered this deeply. They didn't dismiss it out of hand. After much discussion, it was realized that this was simply too risky, and the team too small to make it happen, and they will pursue other avenues to make Dash more understandable and usable to the public.

Maybe we are not aware of technical consequences or other aspects. Like children demanding from parents something difficult to achieve, seeing only advantages and underestimating problems.

If it is possible I would like to understand their (CoreTeam) way of evaluating this decision. E.g.

1. What conditions were taken into consideration to estimate the risk?
2. Time for big change's is over? When was it good time? Could we e.g. did it before, or just after our token name change (Darkcoin --> Dash)?
3. What other avenues are taken into consideration and how urgent this problem is to them (on the timeline/road-map)? (Maybe it's only our point of view and problem is minor?)

Everything comes down to question, what is better:

• Try to educate most people to accept oddly looking numbers in daily use but save developers and marketers time?

or

• Save most peoples time and effort to educate them, but put the weight on programmers and marketers shoulders, without evolution (or even our mobile wallet) being developed yet?

I don't have sufficient data to sincerely answer this dilemma, but am eager to extend my knowledge.

What should i do now?
I was thinking of ordering the study on this (number perception problem) on friendly University, but I am not sure if there is a point now.

I'm willing to contribute to Dash development but don't know where, or even if my work is needed
(Would be most obliged for answer from competent persons)
Maybe MN voting and waiting patiently on Evolution is best option?

 

[camosoul]

Who above 12 years of age has not been exposed to a decimal point?

This is silly.

I stand by my original suggestion that "being inclusive" has gone too far. The morbidly stupid exclude themselves from many aspects of life. This is just another one of them.

The ugliness you displayed above is not the decimal points, but the fact that IX is still unusable.

 

[Friend]

the fact that IX is still unusable

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand that. What's IX?

 

[camosoul]

Its one way of ordering a society, I guess...but not one I would want to live in.

DASH is not a society. I wouldn't want to "live in dollars" either.

How about "Poor stupid people, who can't understand through no fault of their own."

A qualifier you added to my words to give them a false meaning. Setting up a Straw Man.
Does not exist. Setting up a Straw Man.

Oh wait...I guess that's what you're doing through your commentary, right Camo(no)soul ?

Nope.

You're trying to reach out to something that doesn't exist so you can pat yourself on the back with a big fat virtue signal. I am not.

I, who can understand, will help them to become productive contributors to society through distributing my wisdom amongst them.

Stop stroking yourself about what a humanitarian you're being towards imaginary people who don't exist.

I suggest that people step the fuck up.

You want to invent a waterproof hair dryer, instead of instilling the common-sense notion that using a hair dryer int he shower is stupid, dangerous, and even if it could be done, it is oxymoronic and cannot function for intended purpose.

One of these things actually helps people. The other does not. You can call me "mean," but no one ever learned or bettered themselves through having it all handed to them.

 

[camosoul]

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand that. What's IX?

You posted images of gift cards for sale. A thing that would not exist if IX worked, because DASH could be used directly in retail, cutting out all this debit card garbage and using crypto as Satoshi intended.

IX, InstantX = Instantly Secured Transactions. A feature/concept that DASH invented, but has left rot on the vine for 2 years in a broken and unusable form.

 

[Friend]

I also pity InstantX fully (un)developed functionality.
Gift cards are only among other thing on sale. We probably see what we want to see on this picture

 

[camosoul]

I also pity InstantX fully (un)developed functionality.
Gift cards are only among other thing on sale. We probably see what we want to see on this picture

I see both. I just know which one is more important.

 

[Benglian]

How about "Poor stupid people, who can't understand through no fault of their own."

A qualifier you added to my words to give them a false meaning. Setting up a Straw Man.
Does not exist. Setting up a Straw Man.

I don't get this...is you command of English poor? Did I choose my words poorly? What did you believe I was referring to with 'Poor stupid people' ? Stupid poor people, rather than 'unfortunate (poor) stupid people'?

A qualifier you added to my words to give them a false meaning.

Setting up a Straw Man.
Does not exist. Setting up a Straw Man.

It appears, somewhat ironically, that you are setting up a straw man by calling my statement a straw man?

I would like to credit you with an deviously inventive humour, but I'm not sure its warranted...