Dash Nation Consensus Discussion

Oh... you can post without subtle or direct accusations - really appreciated. Maybe this way, there will be actually more people who would want to discuss matters with you.
You wrote about "asking questions or making comments" - this would be actually good approach. Take a step back, read your posts and see if they were only questions and comments. Think about it.

As soon as I am back from my vacation I will be happy to discuss what you wrote above.
For the future cases I would suggest to remember:
1. The fact that you are placing post on the forum doesn't mean that anyone has obligation to respond. You should not expect that just because you have a big ego (I am not writing this to make any negative suggestion - it is the fact and I can see nothing wrong about it. you are who you are).
2. Some people do not accept your style of writing (Andy pointed some valid concerns about it) and prefer not to engage in this type of conversation. Maybe different style would make a conversation with you easier?
3. If you want discussion then discuss and not judge and not try to make paradigms out of your arguments (last example (one from many): "Why waste time changing an entire budget system to act like a corporation when it will fail?")
4. The fact that you disagree with proposition does not mean that someone automatically has to stop working on it (I have explained why before)

Can any admin/moderator move this post and the post of @Solarminer to the thread about v12.1 discussion, please? This will be a better place to discuss this particular matter.
 
i do not think we can move single posts to different threads
only threads to different sections
(i will double check this)
:rolleyes:
 
tungfa said:
i do not think we can move single posts to different threads
only threads to different sections
(i will double check this)
:rolleyes:
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Nope, it is not possible. Also, it would make things super confusing. I think it is ok if things drift a little from time to time :)
 
fernando said:
Nope, it is not possible. Also, it would make things super confusing. I think it is ok if things drift a little from time to time :)
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Nope, it's actually possible :) But I agree in this particular case it would be more confusing because it's somewhat in the flow of discussion here as well imo. Better to cross-post [a link for] the message if one want to continue discussion somewhere else.
 
yidakee said:
- Assuming is a very dangerous thing to do and very anti-productive. For example: Quit your day job today and lets assume Dash price reaches 10000 USD next week.

.
Click to expand...

I do have a problem with this link to the usd.
Simple to explain why...
I have seen most of the 97% drop in it's purchasing power in my time.

IMO, best way to see DASH strong is to make use of it. Create a widget, exchange it for DASH. Offer to exchange DASH for your raw materials to build more widgets.
I am far too ignorant a person to comprehend most of the shenanigans in a manipulated fiat market, yet I can see we are all in for some significant changes in the near future. The weimar republic was a prime example...
rc
 
kot said:
Evan proposes a vision for the future
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It's time for me to stop egotistically thinking I can contribute to this conversation until I learn more.
I have not seen anywhere that ed could walk on water or interpret the stars from deep within a cavern in the Himalayas.
It would seem to me it is WE who have the vision of P2P and ed has developed a tool for implementing OUR lofty goal.
Fiat is theft. And manipulation. The overlords...
I am beginning to appreciate this system of PoW/PoS more all the time, as it is only common sense and mirrors a natural order of inter-action.
D-Nation? Nah... it's bling. Not for me... Perhaps fun for you, but I don't need trimmings.
Then bling morphs into a banner. and banners signify competition, which begats conflict and strife.
I am far too simple minded... Mine DASH, use DASH, invest in the DASH system by participating in MN and perhaps the tool ed develops shall live on in effectiveness. rc
...sure is a bunch I gotta go back and read,,,
 
I think you have really missed something... you are only following the vision of other person. The one, who started this and developed is/was also another person but still a person. It wasn't you/we. Satoshi Nakamoto is the name.
Brilliant ideas in most of the cases come from visionaries and geniuses. Sometimes the others have a privilege to see and share these visions. So keep learning, have more respect and be grateful that he wants to share all of these ideas...
 
I'd like to give my opinion, maybe not specifically on this thread's subject, as it might be a more general opinion, but related to it, I hope.

Whatever the solution DASH adopts as a path for the project and its community to follow, this solution must never neglect incentives.

There must be incentives for the so-called "core" team to innovate and produce, but there must also be incentives for the other members of the community, so that everyone feels the urge to go on giving his support.

It is necessary that, there must be incentives for new initiatives and even innovations that springs up from the members of the community.

But mind that such incentives are not always in the form of "money", but companionship, support, attention, respect and many other forms of incentives are as (or even more) important as simple "money".

Why have I said that:

1. because I fear that (as I already said many times) the voting tool that DASH created, wrongly becomes more important than the cryptocurrency itself: IMHO, the voting system should be kept as simple and and easy to understand as possible, in order to be well used. Important to stress that it is only a tool that will help us achieve DASH's greatest potentials... the voting mechanism is not an end in itself, it is not the most important part of this project (I hope) * remember that "democracy" is a dangerous tool often used to achieve the autodestruction of freedom, and to cause the limitation (death) of the market;

2. because wasting money is never a solution. Just because there is "space" in the burget, it doesn't mean we have to act just like our corrupt governments (oh cool, there is "public" money available, let's waste it!). If the community will use budget money, it must be done in a responsible manner;

3. finally, because simply throwing money on an idea does not mean it will succeed, especially if people who actually DO, those who decide to spontaneously ACT in the benefit of the community, are ignored, and receive no support (because the available attention was already given to those promising only mirabolant ideas, but without real actions).

Anyway, TLDR, I still fear that the community is too much charmed by the voting thing, and is forgetting how an open-sourced project usually succeeds.
 
Please, continue to weigh in with your opinions. This conversation has been valuable already, for me, anyway. When I began this thread, I was deeply concerned that their was a major issue with our order that needed immediate attention. As a community builder, people leaving for preventable reasons is extremely disconcerting for me.

But as the thread progressed, I started to realize that perhaps the problem was being overstated, that we are not in need of major changes such as I suggested, but maybe minor ones.

I still deeply believe in Dash Nation (meaning the whole community) and that together we are stronger going forward.

I am suggesting some ideas in Slack such as a semi-regular community meeting where members of the core team commit to listen and respond to ideas and concerns from the community.

Maybe smaller steps are what's needed here. I'm happy we're having this discussion. It, in of itself, is a prime example of more communication getting results.

Cheers.
 
Of course you are correct, kot... there's probably quite a bit I have missed. And I shall go back and review this thread again... and whatever else I can find to help me learn about the implementation of DASH.
...Oh! Did you mean Craig Wright? :)
It does seem to me the most advantageous benefit's to makind only occurred when their time arrived.
I shall go back to square one. rc
 
TaoOfSatoshi said:
There seems to be a lot of confusion in the community over everyone's roles, and who should be in charge of what and have power over what in our organization.

I witnessed a regrettable incident on the Public Dash Slack Channel that I would not like to see repeated, and the cause of it was a lack of clearly defined roles.

How will we move forward?

Are we "core team" and community, or are we Dash Nation, one team under the DAO?

Do the Masternodes decide the path of development through the DGBB, or if not, who does?

Who are we?

Let's create a Dash Nation Consensus.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, please post your opinions. Clarifying this is extremely important to move on in a cohesive manner.
Click to expand...

Hello Tao and everyone.
I just want to say that indeed I think that any suggestion is valuable in terms of discussion and I really appreciate that, but as big investor like I feel (relative to my financial capacity), with no skills of economics or technicals (I think I'm not the only one), I would be really concerned if the last word of the development doesn't be of the core team, the group led by Evan.
That said, thanks to all of you for the hard work. (Sorry for the bad english).
 
TaoOfSatoshi said:
Please, continue to weigh in with your opinions. This conversation has been valuable already, for me, anyway. When I began this thread, I was deeply concerned that their was a major issue with our order that needed immediate attention. As a community builder, people leaving for preventable reasons is extremely disconcerting for me.

But as the thread progressed, I started to realize that perhaps the problem was being overstated, that we are not in need of major changes such as I suggested, but maybe minor ones.

I still deeply believe in Dash Nation (meaning the whole community) and that together we are stronger going forward.

I am suggesting some ideas in Slack such as a semi-regular community meeting where members of the core team commit to listen and respond to ideas and concerns from the community.

Maybe smaller steps are what's needed here. I'm happy we're having this discussion. It, in of itself, is a prime example of more communication getting results.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Please stop trying to pressure the contributors Tao. The small / disruptive group you joined recently does not represent the Dash community whereas the contributors are sanctioned by the network whether you like it or not. Like any organization, serious contributors will try to fit into the upper team structure, which I did myself, not splinter off into a separate slack and try to drum up support around an alternative agenda by constant flow of accusations and negativity against the main team, this is really divisive and is usually referred to as a 5th column. I deactivated my account on that slack because honestly it will just burn-out any team member with the toxicity there and constant insinuation of incompetence, lack of experience, lack of communication, how bad the team is for not making people 'feel the right way', i am dumbfounded most people don't see what's happening, although I guess if you weren't on the team slack after the rejected Merchant proposal and the massive backlash / FUD storm from that group that led to them splitting off to their own slack, you might be oblivious to it.

Serious people will contribute within the existing structure and don't need to be fluffed, they work for the good of the project. There are 76 people in the team slack most of whom aren't paid and don't need fluffing to 'feel appreciated' and all work constructively and have a range of skills and competances far beyond anything i've seen in your small group. You complain about communication, ironically I was scheduled to do a show with Buster today where I had prepared to communicate loads of stuff about Evolution, but like so many before him who joined Solarminers gang Buster suddenly became angry with the core team and had to quit, the real reason I am guessing is that he has just been hit with a constant stream of FUD about how bad the team is rather than anything the team is actually doing wrong, so that's how your group is improving communication, please get real.

Lets please put this behind us and continue making Dash the leading cryptocurrency, you have one of the largest and smartest teams here and we are in the early stage of building out something truly next generation that if we get it right really will make an impact in the world. If you want to help, look outside of Dash and help us integrate, gain adoption, raise awareness and improve the product and we need to stick together to achieve this. I hope we can all work together and put these recent disagreements behind us.
 
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TaoOfSatoshi said:
The partial disconnect between the core team and the rest of the community is evident here. The core team believes that nothing is wrong, and that the community feels the same way as them.
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This is a cross-post over from Slack from yours truly:

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Personally I don't think it's a bad thing per se to be a bit disconnected from the rest of the community.

You know, everyone and his little sister has tons of ideas how Dash should be changed/improved/whatever. My inbox is full of them, and I can only imagine how Evans and Udjins inbox look like.
And I can tell you that I've implemented loads of code to check whether the better community ideas work/look good/don't break other things/are possible at all and threw them away because they don't.

If you really want to change things then do it. If you can't, friendly ask for it. The devs might not immediately make your wish their prio-1 goal, and might even miss it because they are doing things others have friendly asked for.
Or, imagine, things which are actually necessary to keep that thing running.

This might look arrogant or disconnected from the outside, but I can live with that, probably because I am quite arrogant when it comes to this.
Most losses in the open-source-community were because devs got worn out with discussions and name-calling, NOT because of the work or team itself.
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TaoOfSatoshi said:
We wouldn't be having this discussion if this were the case.
Click to expand...

Maybe we should postpone v0.12.1.x and Evolution and start a proper discussion with the developers?
 
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@crowning I don't think the Dash larger community should be expecting core developers to be responding to every idea or every criticism put out there by everyone and their little sister. The amount of input I am sure is overwhelming. We shouldn't want to be wasting the time of our developers or having them constantly have to defend themselves against everything anyone ever says. That being said, it is still a fair question to ask what is an appropriate level of engagement, because on the other extreme if the development team is entirely isolated, then people who contribute to Dash in other ways become less incentivized to contribute and it can foster misunderstandings/miscommunications. And when I am referring to level of engagement, I am not thinking in terms of each person who works on core development individually, I am thinking more collectively the core developers as a group.

@AndyDark I think you would find if you actually spent more time in the "other" slack, that it isn't like you describe. Most of the content in the slack, believe it or not, does not involve accusations and negativity aimed at the core team. Some of the other core team members have had a presence there and I don't want to speak for anyone, but I would encourage you to ask the people who are more familiar with the slack rather than just going off of the very worst which is the only part you are seeing.

We aren't asking for people to bend over backwards with fluff. There's a difference between having a politically-correct community where everyone has to walk on eggshells, versus having a community that fosters respect to everyone who contributes. If some contributing members don't feel respected (and this includes people on core team and people who aren't), maybe we should take some time and take a closer look at it and consider that there might be things we can change, rather than assume that person is just stirring up trouble for no good reason. There is no solarminer "gang", we really aren't out to get anyone (or at least I know that I'm not). I just don't think we should underestimate the power of community building which is a huge part of what Tao is trying to accomplish. We spend a lot of time talking about official marketing efforts, but a lot of talent gets brought in to the project when a well-motivated community brings in people on their own through their own little projects or word of mouth.
 
Listen, I can't speak for others on both sides, but I've been nothing but diplomatic in this thread. I've stated that I believe the core team is doing a great job, I have oodles of faith in Evan, and believe in most respects we are on the right track.

With respect to the Public Slack, to say that it is a place where people plot against the core team is ridiculous. In fact, we are actively developing retail solutions to deploy in Free State NH with collaboration from members of their community as we speak. Articles have been produced there, websites have been designed, podcasts created. It is a marvel of decentralized communication and action. Do not belittle it please.

We are all one team. As you can see, it's not just the core team that drives us forward. The whole community has valuable contributors, and it will help to make everyone feel valued.

Communication, communication, communication. No one is trying to "divide" anyone. I would just like to see a more inclusive system before we go the way of other more mature cryptos. Talking about it has been a start...
 
AndyDark said:
Please stop trying to pressure the contributors Tao. The small / disruptive group you joined recently does not represent the Dash community whereas the contributors are sanctioned by the network whether you like it or not. Like any organization, serious contributors will try to fit into the upper team structure, which I did myself, not splinter off into a separate slack and try to drum up support around an alternative agenda by constant flow of accusations and negativity against the main team, this is really divisive and is usually referred to as a 5th column. I deactivated my account on that slack because honestly it will just burn-out any team member with the toxicity there and constant insinuation of incompetence, lack of experience, lack of communication, how bad the team is for not making people 'feel the right way', i am dumbfounded most people don't see what's happening, although I guess if you weren't on the team slack after the rejected Merchant proposal and the massive backlash / FUD storm from that group that led to them splitting off to their own slack, you might be oblivious to it.

Serious people will contribute within the existing structure and don't need to be fluffed, they work for the good of the project. There are 76 people in the team slack most of whom aren't paid and don't need fluffing to 'feel appreciated' and all work constructively and have a range of skills and competances far beyond anything i've seen in your small group. You complain about communication, ironically I was scheduled to do a show with Buster today where I had prepared to communicate loads of stuff about Evolution, but like so many before him who joined Solarminers gang Buster suddenly became angry with the core team and had to quit, the real reason I am guessing is that he has just been hit with a constant stream of FUD about how bad the team is rather than anything the team is actually doing wrong, so that's how your group is improving communication, please get real.

Lets please put this behind us and continue making Dash the leading cryptocurrency, you have one of the largest and smartest teams here and we are in the early stage of building out something truly next generation that if we get it right really will make an impact in the world. If you want to help, look outside of Dash and help us integrate, gain adoption, raise awareness and improve the product and we need to stick together to achieve this. I hope we can all work together and put these recent disagreements behind us.
Click to expand...


Get your head out the clouds please. You are being a complete ass at this point and just showing how one-sided you can be.

Please stop being condescending. Please stop referring to this "toxicity" you believe in because it's all in your head.

If you'd like to keep spreading your FUD I might just have to get sort of angry with you. So here's a warning, stop acting as if this is one side vs the other, or "our little group of fudsters" might come after you.....


>.>

Seriously disappointed in the lack of people skills around here.
 
TheDashGuy said:
Get your head out the clouds please. You are being a complete ass at this point and just showing how one-sided you can be.

Please stop being condescending. Please stop referring to this "toxicity" you believe in because it's all in your head.

If you'd like to keep spreading your FUD I might just have to get sort of angry with you. So here's a warning, stop acting as if this is one side vs the other, or "our little group of fudsters" might come after you.....


>.>

Seriously disappointed in the lack of people skills around here.
Click to expand...

I stand by everything I said, and if my opinion is FUD why do we have the 3 of your rushing in here to damage-control and you threatening me not to say it?

It's a shame you got involved because out of Solarminers group you're the guy who's contributions I value the most and in case you didn't notice i've been trying to build bridges with you since 'the fuddening' started back in Feb and privately offered to share my own core salary with you if you work with me (although you pointed out I didn't need to offer that because money is not why you are contributing which I respect). I tried building bridges with Solar too but he thinks Dash should go "retail" now and not Evolution, and that's really the source of all this drama isn't it, people who don't get there way and try to bend the rules to get it?

BTW i'll say what I like, threats will never work with me or stop me stating an honest opinion, when I see your group fudding in future I will kindly point this out. I guess you are angry so no worries.
 
kot said:
I think you have really missed something... you are only following the vision of other person. The one, who started this and developed is/was also another person but still a person. It wasn't you/we. Satoshi Nakamoto is the name.
Brilliant ideas in most of the cases come from visionaries and geniuses. Sometimes the others have a privilege to see and share these visions. So keep learning, have more respect and be grateful that he wants to share all of these ideas...
Click to expand...


Satoshi is not a real person.
It was a open account, and many people used this account to write from it, in order to remain anonymous.
 
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