Pietro Speroni
Active member
I am investigating ceptr right now. Trying to see if it has some governance.
http://ceptr.org/
http://ceptr.org/
Cryptocurrencies that have governance.
- Thread starter demo
- Start date
demo
Well-known member
They provide a link to a usefull map, that can be used when we want to investigate the level of governance whatever coin has.
I read there:
http://ceptr.org/whitepapers/mutual-credit
This http://artbrock.com/currencymap/ can be used to categorize all kind of coins.
For whatever coin, the governance question is: How are taken and who takes the initial and the runtime decisions presented in the above map?
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I think Stratis has governance .. they have (or planning to have) masternodes
Pietro Speroni
Active member
if we design a crypto that have governance, someone must code it... I can provide my expertise with eDem for the algorithm, but I am not going to go back programming. Is there any volunteer?
demo
Well-known member
I am unable to code from scratch. I can only try to hack the code. So if we decide the code base, I could try to do some changes. But deciding the appropriate code base is not an easy task. For example, Dash decided to follow bitcoin's codebase, and look how many problems occured due to this decision. The task of creating a crypto that has a decent governance system is a much more difficult task than the task Dash had.
And as artbrock said:
artbrock said:
Lets discuss the design then. It is a start, and if we manage to design something useful then maybe a good coder who can code from scratch appears.
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You may very well be underestimating what a mammoth task it would be to create a viable and sustainable crypto. But if you want a starting point for the spec; off the top of my head I would say...
- Delegated Proof of Stake and multisig
- Instant Send on all transactions (default)
- Automatic tax payments on all transactions
- Privacy-first (encrypted blockchain with option to make clear)
- tezos-style sandboxing and consensus for code updates
- Formal Verification tools to ensure code runs as expected
- Dash-style funding model
- Built-in trustless and decentralised crowdfunding
- Unlocked wallets; 2% annual inflation
- Locked wallets; 2% interest earned
- Inactive assets in unlocked wallets are automatically returned to the blockchain after two years (must lock to keep them)
omg, a Breeze Node in Stratis will currently cost more than $2M !!!!! That's gotta be a world record as the most expensive collateralized node!
https://stratisplatform.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=759188
https://stratisplatform.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=759188
Pietro Speroni
Active member
this sounds like the governments wet dream. Where did you say you work for?
Automatic tax payment on all transactions? Sorry, but why?
In any case the whole point of placing governance first is that all those things (inflation, for example) would be defined by the community.
I don't see it as pro-government... just change the word "tax" to something like "an agreed reward" then maybe it looks different. A three-way tax contract negotiated between the wallet, the merchant and some kind of governance entity. It would be largely invisible to the end user (automatic and 99.9% non-interactive). It would go some way to solving the problem of tax being too complicated / laborious. We fund miners and MNOs, so why not extend it to everything else?
The exact numbers don't have to be hard coded, they could be voted on and set within social contracts, just so long as the same percentage cuts both ways; inflation vs investment.
Pietro Speroni
Active member
So the tax would not go to the government, but to some other entity? What exactly? Sounds like the best idea is to create coins on need like dash does. That is also a form of tiny tax called inflation but it does not bit psychologically on people's wallet.
I didn't think through the specifics. But it just seems to me, a simple and automated tax could eliminate so much unnecessary work and give zero excuse for "tax evasion".
Pietro Speroni
Active member
first of all no one would use a currency with a tax included. People even use currencies with fixed cap to make sure their money does not get watered down. Then you have a problem to decide what the tax should be (who decides? the masternodes or the government?) and where the tax goes to (US government? I am resident in Italy why would I pay the US gov? Or maybe we should all pay the Italian government?). Then there are transactions that do not need to be taxed. All the transactions within my own wallets, for example.
Pietro Speroni
Active member
Another thing which is unacceptable is:
I don't think it needs much commenting.
I don't think it needs much commenting.
demo
Well-known member
My pov is somehow different.
I am not a proponent of taxation, but I am not also against it. It depends on the conditions.
let the tax functionality be inside the coin's code , and let the community to ignite it upon will and upon vote.
This is what I mean by "governed coin". The community must decide the conditions and the chunks of code that are allowed to run, and also decide wich chunks of code are the prohibited code. And of course everything must be bounded together in a logical tree.
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demo
Well-known member
I dont think @GrandMasterDash means that the tax should go to the US government. I believe his speech is a "meta"-speech. Whatever he said, are just properties of the code that he believes the governed coin of the future should have.
He said that the tax should go back to the blockchain. This means that the tax should return to whoever governs this blockchain. Whether the blockchain governors are the MNOs, or a traditional government, or whether the traditional government has shares into the blockchain, or whether something tottaly different and unexpectable happens, this does not matter. We are talking about the properties of the code, and the code should take into account all possible scenarios.
"The tax functionallity should be a property of the blockchain code" (this is what @GrandMasterDash just said) "and the community should decide to ignite this property, and lets vote the numbers about it" (I completed).
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To say no one would accept a coin with tax is also to say, no one would pay $1000 to submit a proposal, or no one would choose 1.8 dash as a reward. Willingly accepting one side of the argument when it suits us (reward paid), yet choosing to reject "tax". Inflation occurs the moment a proposal is successful. It is a tax because more dash magically comes into existence. The benefit for that inflation is hopefully more adoption. So why must we think the benefit of another type of tax is zero? Sure, we can discuss how we derive the various numbers, or how we determine the beneficiaries, but that doesn't make the idea inherently flawed.
The fiat system is "broken", that's why we're in crypto, but it's clearly good enough for a large number of people, or else we wouldn't be so obsessed to measure the bitcoin price is dollars. And it has already been suggested, had Adaptive Proposal Fees existed at the start of the coin, then it would of surely stayed that way, unchallenged. And so too for a pre-programmed tax mechanism; if it existed at the start, people would choose to use the coin, or not, so where is the problem?
Don't misunderstand me. I am definitely allergic to taxes! But if we can guarantee the rules in code.. code is law, right?
And remember, I am also proposing the flip side to tax.. interest paid on time locked funds. Thus as a user you make your choices.. and everyone would definitely make their own choice. Some people piss their money away, while others are savers, and everything in-between.
The fiat system is "broken", that's why we're in crypto, but it's clearly good enough for a large number of people, or else we wouldn't be so obsessed to measure the bitcoin price is dollars. And it has already been suggested, had Adaptive Proposal Fees existed at the start of the coin, then it would of surely stayed that way, unchallenged. And so too for a pre-programmed tax mechanism; if it existed at the start, people would choose to use the coin, or not, so where is the problem?
Don't misunderstand me. I am definitely allergic to taxes! But if we can guarantee the rules in code.. code is law, right?
And remember, I am also proposing the flip side to tax.. interest paid on time locked funds. Thus as a user you make your choices.. and everyone would definitely make their own choice. Some people piss their money away, while others are savers, and everything in-between.
Btw, you can add Ark to your list of currencies with governance.
demo
Well-known member
I am unable to keep track of all governed cryptos.
So I created a wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governed_cryptocurrencies
hmmm....they speedy deleted the page.
Spies again.
Of course they dont delete the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_cryptocurrencies
wikipedia, a place full of spies.
Outrageous, they didn't list Windows XXXP Coin!
demo
Well-known member
I recreated the governed cryptocurrencies page, after vandalizing the adult_cryptocurrencies.
I hope they have got the message.
Please improve the article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governed_cryptocurrencies
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