Contacted by FBI

[demo]

Dash Core Group, Inc. has no knowledge of the identity of masternode owners. The rest of your arguments build on this false premise, and are therefore also invalid.

Of course you have. Some people here in this forum have masternode badges. And you may give to the agents the full list of their IP, when they login in the forum.

 

[strophy]

OK, the argument is valid but extremely weak. Imagine you are the FBI trying to get the fullest possible list of real name identities of all masternode owners. These are your options:

1. Automatically dump the full list of IPs directly from the blockchain (dash-cli masternode list full) and subpoena the VPS hosting providers, which research has shown is centralised around <10 major hosts
2. Get on Reddit/Slack/Discord/Dash Forum and manually collect a partial list of usernames (NOT identities) who have voluntarily identified themselves as MNOs, then subpoena Reddit/Slack/Discord/Dash Core Group, Inc. to get a partial list of IPs and then subpoena hundreds of ISPs
3. Exploit a backdoor in XenForo (the Dash Forum software) and get the same partial list of IPs and subpoena hundreds of ISPs

You'd have to be stupid to attempt anything other than option 1. Putting in expensive hours from highly paid legal professionals to implement a warrant canary to safeguard freely available information like this is massive waste of resources, and I hope to see you arguing strongly against it in the future

 

[Antti Kaikkonen]

Automatically dump the full list of IPs directly from the blockchain

I'm pretty sure that IP addresses and other masternode related information is not stored in the blockchain.

Some Dash transactions are not on the blockchain (InstantSend and PrivateSend) so Masternodes may be subpoena'd for that information..

Both PrivateSend and InstantSend transactions are stored in the blockchain. However the InstantSend lock information is not stored in the blockchain (it looks like a regular tx in the blockchain). And with mixing transactions only the masternode has the ability to map the inputs to the outputs. Did you mean those things?

 

[strophy]

Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?

 

[Antti Kaikkonen]

Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?

I think so but I'm not entirely sure how they are stored. One big difference to blockchain storage is that historical data is not available unless you store it in your own database.

 

[demo]

I think so but I'm not entirely sure how they are stored. One big difference to blockchain storage is that historical data is not available unless you store it in your own database.

They have the sentinel database which is an sql database. The historical data is kept there, upon vote among the masternodes. Which means that if the masternodes vote to keep historical data , it will be kept. But the default vote is to delete the history in the sentinel database, for performance reasons also.

There are also some external databases maintained by non core members, where the history is kept.

• I keep the history of the votes and the ip addresses of the masternodes, as simple html files, in my github site. Http://demodun.github.io/mnowatch
• Something similar and much more organised is achieved in http://dashninja.pl although there they do not agregate in a single view what each masternode voted (which i do in my site)
• Finally there is this https://github.com/jhodges10/sensei which is maintained by @jeffh, which aims to provide the sql governance database to every single wallet, and not only to the masternodes wallets.

 

[solarguy]

Please cite these "legal opinions."

It seem like you and your unspecified "legal opinions" don't understand how warrant canaries work; they expire automatically and a court cannot compel US citizens to speak falsely in the form of forcing anyone to prevent automatic warrant canary expiration."


I am keenly aware of how warrant canaries work, and wish they did.

In real life, not nearly so clear. Here's a quote:

On the face of it, warrant canaries sound like a good idea. Many are not convinced, however, arguing that warrant canaries are little more that puff and smoke advertising with little to no real substance.

1. First Amendment protection for the use of warrant canaries is purely conjectural – it has never been tested in a court of law. It is very possible that a US court would rule that failure to update a warrant canary constitutes contempt of the legal requirement placed on an individual.

This is even more true outside the US, where people do not enjoy the explicit Constitutional rights afforded to US citizens. Australia is the first country to explicitly outlaw the use of warrant canaries, and other countries (such as the UK) are likely to follow soon.


and here's the source:

https://www.bestvpn.com/warrant-canaries-useful/

And they have sourced/linked to a number of very current legal actions, like in the UK and Australia, where warrant canaries are explicitly outlawed.

 

[solarguy]

@solarguy,

Still waiting for you to cite the "legal opinions" you alluded to earlier. Please note that a blog post from a VPN doesn't count as a legal opinion. You'll have to do better to justify taking the position that just happens to coincide with rationalizing Dash Core's mysterious antipathy to using warrant canaries.

From your link:



Nobody should really care what a single US court would "possibly" rule. All that matters is what higher courts rule, and whether those ruling withstand 2nd Amendment remedies as a result of compelling positive affirmation of false speech (IE involuntary servitude).

There is absolutely no precedent for a US citizen being compelled to affirm false speech. Your pure conjecture ignores the critical distinction between being prohibited from the positive action of disclosing an NSA nastygram and the purely negative action of not preventing a canary from automatically expiring.

The US Constitution's 13th Amendment prohibits involuntary servitude, so a court forcing a US citizen to speak falsely against their own free will and conscientious objection on the behalf of the Deep State's proclivity for secrecy would be a bridge too far. That would be a clear sign it's time to start shooting the bastards, a signal even the most perfidious of our cowardly, risk-averse Court Jews are loath to emit.

As for citizens of the UK (including Australia), those poor souls are the chattel property (IE slaves) of The Crown & The Throne, powers presently embodied by The Queen and The City. They have no agency, and are thus irrelevant until such time as they reclaim their (sadly neutralized) heritage of Common Law.

Not everybody lives in the US. And warrant canaries ARE illegal in Australia, and borderline in the UK. Thus, my claim IS demonstrated. Although it would be convenient for your argument to just ignore Australia and the UK, you don't really have that option to just ignore the bits you don't like. Their legal validity in the U.S. has never been demonstrated, and again, I hope they will hold up in court and magically become valid around the world. The U.S. constitution is being trampled in a number of ways. Just because I hate that with a passion doesn't make it untrue.

 

[thephez]

Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?

No, I would not say that either. A node can issue a P2P message requesting data about all masternodes and would receive a current list in response. I *think* it is just stored in memory. There is a limit to how frequently a node can request the whole list to limit abuse.

 

[Javieralexvr]

Transparency first. Well handled, this is going to be a great year for dash.

 

[camosoul]

All MasterNode IPs are visible in the MasterNode list.

Or, you can just go to dashninja.pl

All MasterNodes are publicly exposed. Always have been. Not sure why this is confusing or hard to understand. It has never been any other way.

...which is why I am not an MNO. Too much liability, zero protection from witch-hunting government dead-set on ending crypto by any available method. Even if you're not in it for the money, because it's all about money in the mind of corrupt government, MNs are targeted. If you run a MasterNode, you're going to prison. Period.

While the US government loves it's war on it's own citizens, it is not limited by such petty things as borders and laws... Even if you've never been here, never been a citizen... That won't stop them. The US government is a global threat against all that is good and decent. No one is safe from these evil psychopaths. I'm still on the path to renouncing my citizenship even though it probably won't make any difference... They never stop. The sinking ship needs more stolen cash!

 

[camosoul]

they collect everything, on everybody, all the time.

It's illegal to lie to the cops.

But, is it illegal to lie on forums and Facebook?

...let them collect misinformation.

Why do you think I run at the mouth? How much of it do you think is true? How can you tell the difference?

I know how to shut the hell up just fine...

Noise. Lots and lots of noise. It's your only defense.

 

[demo]

All MasterNodes are publicly exposed. Always have been. Not sure why this is confusing or hard to understand. It has never been any other way.

...which is why I am not an MNO. Too much liability, zero protection from witch-hunting government dead-set on ending crypto by any available method. Even if you're not in it for the money, because it's all about money in the mind of corrupt government, MNs are targeted. If you run a MasterNode, you're going to prison. Period.

If you have 1000 dash, you could run a masternode just before the end of the voting period, in order to be able to vote. Then shutdown your masternode, until the next month when you will become again a masternode, just for a few hours before the voting deadline, with a different masternode ID and IP of course. That way you make the life of the people who want to spot you difficult.

There is an individual who operates 137 masternodes, and he follows the above method.
If you watch his IP addresses ( VOTE_HASH: 1322428539327371615009892572746926458241730394333 ) they are all dispersed around the globe:

1. 165.227.51.50
2. 139.59.148.216
3. 165.227.214.114
4. 159.65.9.112
5. 89.47.167.182
6. 165.227.40.243
7. 192.241.196.120
8. 165.227.43.32
9. 192.241.228.45
10. 165.227.211.61
11. 139.59.137.93
12. 162.243.147.190
13. 138.68.67.189
14. 89.47.167.193
15. 194.135.81.30
16. 80.208.225.45
17. 89.47.167.190
18. 207.154.209.231
19. 89.47.167.50
20. 192.241.230.14
21. 89.47.167.188
22. 159.203.10.79
23. 188.166.162.126
24. 165.227.211.85
25. 46.101.158.243
26. 165.227.84.99
27. 165.227.215.199
28. 46.101.248.165
29. 162.243.146.170
30. 165.227.55.198
31. 162.243.131.75
32. 159.203.63.181
33. 212.24.107.48
34. 46.101.79.64
35. 185.5.54.30
36. 80.209.237.204
37. 165.227.45.80
38. 192.241.240.219
39. 159.65.1.101
40. 194.135.83.193
41. 165.227.84.130
42. 162.243.146.67
43. 139.59.135.189
44. 139.59.144.247
45. 138.68.191.203
46. 165.227.84.147
47. 89.47.167.187
48. 138.68.191.199
49. 159.89.32.12
50. 185.81.167.13
51. 89.47.167.78
52. 89.47.167.184
53. 109.235.66.234
54. 159.89.47.10
55. 192.241.243.156
56. 159.89.40.235
57. 89.47.167.183
58. 89.47.167.53
59. 46.101.79.13
60. 165.227.35.146
61. 89.47.167.57
62. 46.101.219.169
63. 195.181.241.78
64. 159.65.9.114
65. 192.241.244.212
66. 162.243.5.102
67. 165.227.35.158
68. 139.59.79.59
69. 139.59.66.51
70. 139.59.79.124
71. 139.59.74.250
72. 139.59.74.251
73. 139.59.65.183
74. 139.59.70.141
75. 139.59.128.70
76. 159.89.139.77
77. 162.243.146.113
78. 139.59.70.221
79. 139.59.78.11
80. 139.59.78.18
81. 185.5.53.230
82. 89.47.167.192
83. 185.81.166.6
84. 89.47.167.81
85. 165.227.16.55
86. 178.62.40.206
87. 159.65.9.115
88. 139.59.78.65
89. 139.59.78.78
90. 139.59.69.99
91. 46.101.103.200
92. 212.24.103.79
93. 138.197.129.153
94. 165.227.37.206
95. 139.59.65.89
96. 139.59.69.75
97. 185.5.55.6
98. 194.135.81.129
99. 89.47.167.80
100. 178.62.51.151
101. 139.59.73.128
102. 159.89.131.73
103. 207.154.233.239
104. 89.47.167.189
105. 89.47.167.45
106. 159.89.131.76
107. 67.205.128.88
108. 89.47.167.185
109. 67.205.189.165
110. 174.138.36.154
111. 194.135.93.215
112. 192.81.218.187
113. 139.59.231.219
114. 139.59.96.32
115. 94.176.233.149
116. 139.59.128.202
117. 139.59.96.42
118. 138.197.136.108
119. 165.227.43.1
120. 89.40.0.14
121. 139.59.96.45
122. 139.59.96.52
123. 46.101.150.181
124. 165.227.39.120
125. 89.47.167.186
126. 139.59.96.55
127. 159.89.141.241
128. 139.59.96.83
129. 89.47.167.181
130. 139.59.96.130
131. 89.47.167.79
132. 195.181.243.130
133. 139.59.96.84
134. 139.59.96.91
135. 89.47.167.194
136. 159.203.33.145
137. 165.227.35.188

 

[jimbursch]

There is an individual who operates 137 masternodes, and he follows the above method.

I want to understand how you figured this out. Pardon my ignorance, but I am really curious about this.

How did you identify these 137 MNs? If I understand correctly, these 137 MNs will have a different IP in a month? Why do you think someone flips on MNs to vote, but not collect the MN rewards?

 

[demo]

I want to understand how you figured this out. Pardon my ignorance, but I am really curious about this.

How did you identify these 137 MNs? If I understand correctly, these 137 MNs will have a different IP in a month? Why do you think someone flips on MNs to vote, but not collect the MN rewards?

I identify the masternode operators by the way they vote. It is the vote hash, in my mnowatch project.

Someone who is extremely rich, does not care about MN rewards. He cares more about anonymity, he cares more not to be caught and not to be taxed. Thats why many of the old (rich) guard shut down their mnos or they refuse to vote , as shown also in the statistics:

There is a huge increase of unique masternodes (from 645 to 1647!)
Either it is true, or they adapted to my code in order to hide themselves.
Obviously the votehash is not enough, in order to spot the operators having multiple masternodes. The R&D continues.
(dandelion?)
P.S.
You may also be interested in some other queries [1] , [2] that you can execute in the provided html data.

In this report I created 31-12-2017 using the (unverified by me) historical data from dashninja API , you can see 4776 online and 6789-4776=2013 offline MNOS, what they voted, and their votehash. This data dates (according to dashninja) since the beginning of the version 2 dash governance system.

 

[strophy]

@demo this is fascinating stuff, could you post it in a new thread so more people can see it and join the discussion? I'm worried it is too deep in this thread to be seen. I know of a few other efforts underway to determine the number of unique masternode owners, so maybe you could coordinate efforts. Personally I'm also interested in trying to calculate the gini coefficient of various blockchains to gauge their level of inequality...

I've seen somewhere (but can't remember where) that there is some sort of check to prevent shifting 1000 dash around to start a new masternode, vote on various proposals, rinse and repeat. I think the masternode must be in the payment list when votes are counted or something like that - votes by non-existent masternodes will be dropped.

 

[demo]

@demo this is fascinating stuff, could you post it in a new thread so more people can see it and join the discussion? I'm worried it is too deep in this thread to be seen. I know of a few other efforts underway to determine the number of unique masternode owners, so maybe you could coordinate efforts.

There is a story related to my efforts. I wanted to post the appropriate info on each proposal thread (and pre-proposal) , but the forum admins deleted my posts. And they send me to the off topic. There, I am allowed to talk about this subject.

I dont know other efforts on this subject...where and who are they? Can you give me urls or nicknames? Maybe we can cooperate and buy a droplet , instead of hosting the whole effort in github where databases and server side scripts are not allowed (so I am forced to code the system in an awkward way)

@demo
Personally I'm also interested in trying to calculate the gini coefficient of various blockchains to gauge their level of inequality...

Maybe the below is usefull for you:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses.html

Dash distribution
Balance Addresses % Addresses (Total) Coins $USD % Coins (Total)
0 - 0.001 78947 13.21% (100%) 28.48 DASH 17,715 USD 0% (100%)
0.001 - 0.01 77985 13.05% (86.79%) 317.00 DASH 197,195 USD 0% (100%)
0.01 - 0.1 174142 29.13% (73.75%) 4,123 DASH 2,564,911 USD 0.05% (100%)
0.1 - 1 148962 24.92% (44.62%) 46,374 DASH 28,848,064 USD 0.58% (99.94%)
1 - 10 88146 14.75% (19.7%) 226,083 DASH 140,639,978 USD 2.85% (99.36%)
10 - 100 21680 3.63% (4.95%) 516,986 DASH 321,602,086 USD 6.52% (96.51%)
100 - 1,000 2725 0.46% (1.32%) 701,857 DASH 436,605,093 USD 8.85% (89.99%)
1,000 - 10,000 5150 0.86% (0.87%) 5,758,751 DASH 3,582,353,964 USD 72.64% (81.13%)
10,000 - 100,000 33 0.01% (0.01%) 673,007 DASH 418,658,097 USD 8.49% (8.49%)
Addresses richer than
1 USD 100 USD 1,000 USD 10,000 USD 100,000 USD 1,000,000 USD 10,000,000 USD
499,476 196,947 73,508 18,135 6,719 174 19

I've seen somewhere (but can't remember where) that there is some sort of check to prevent shifting 1000 dash around to start a new masternode, vote on various proposals, rinse and repeat. I think the masternode must be in the payment list when votes are counted or something like that - votes by non-existent masternodes will be dropped.

Where is this check in the code?
And how long does it take to reach the payment list?
Maybe @UdjinM6 can help on this...But he is busy this period, and he does not participate a lot in the forum.

 

[strophy]

@pablomp it looks like @demo might be working on something similar to you?

Regarding the bitinfocharts data, yes, that is what we will initially use to calculate the gini coefficient. Will know soon if that is granular enough.

 

[camosoul]

Seems like some people are trash talking dash down so they can perhaps scoop up some cheap coins from weak hands. (?)

I might have some critical things to say, but my entrance price was $0.007 or lower, so... This is hardly a move for cheap coins.

I still get to be part of the coinbase witch hunt, even though I never sold anything...

But, with global government finally taking notice and doing everything they can to destroy crypto, it might be time to bail out... I was hopeful for the technology, but it's not worth anything but what ponzi remains, thanks to guv and the weakness of those who won't even try to put up a fight.

Inventing banned tech is not useful.

 

[nrpetty]

Well handled, thank you for the update Fernando.