Budget Proposal - Vendor-Experience

bluebit Dash coinstar would be so rad I'd use that often.

Regarding the proposal, I'm excited to see the soda machine project evolve. To me the time is a non issue. Masternode owners control the time span a budget proposal exists. If you like this idea but the time span is an issue just try to put that aside and imagine the bigger picture here. We can vote this out of existence if it doesn't go as planned or some other unforseen event happens, like a price rise.
 
TheDashGuy said:
Evan is the one who suggested they operate in this fashion, otherwise EVERYTHING would be a monthly vote otherwise it would be "cancelled".
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Am not suggesting a one month lifespan. I'm happy with 4 months or possibly 6 at a push.

There's nothing wrong with setting milestones is there? Getting some idea of where we want to be, how can that be a bad thing? Do you think in this time it will be a wall of silence? I would hope we'd get some feedback and discuss things.. account for any unforeseen eventualities. Why so adamant that this must expire in 2024? Is it about the lost 5 dash? - hey, if that's all it is, I'll cover that expense.

Some of what you said was true.. I think it's easier to accept a proposal from Evan than someone else. But I also think this is a learning experience for many of us. For example, look how we handled The Daily Decrypt.. that was up and down.. we realised that we should of maybe had more dialogue with Amanda and that was just 10 episodes and a smaller amount of dash. So here we are, learning. And it's not like I don't have faith in these guys because I do. I'm excited for this project and I will happily vote yes the moment a bit more flesh is put on the bones and a realistic time frame is given. Again, that will benefit all of us, not just those voting.
 
Folks, the goal here is a payment terminal for ALL retail applications. Let that sink in a bit. Not just vending or gas pumps or coinstar, but ALL retail.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Am not suggesting a one month lifespan. I'm happy with 4 months or possibly 6 at a push.

There's nothing wrong with setting milestones is there? Getting some idea of where we want to be, how can that be a bad thing? Do you think in this time it will be a wall of silence? I would hope we'd get some feedback and discuss things.. account for any unforeseen eventualities. Why so adamant that this must expire in 2024? Is it about the lost 5 dash? - hey, if that's all it is, I'll cover that expense.

Some of what you said was true.. I think it's easier to accept a proposal from Evan than someone else. But I also think this is a learning experience for many of us. For example, look how we handled The Daily Decrypt.. that was up and down.. we realised that we should of maybe had more dialogue with Amanda and that was just 10 episodes and a smaller amount of dash. So here we are, learning. And it's not like I don't have faith in these guys because I do. I'm excited for this project and I will happily vote yes the moment a bit more flesh is put on the bones and a realistic time frame is given. Again, that will benefit all of us, not just those voting.
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Ok fair enough. I tend to agree.

But why are we picking on Solarminer? You've seen what he has to offer, and it was well worth the money.

So why are we treating the guy like some rando pocket change grubber and expecting a 5 page business plan? He did amazing work on the soda machine, and I doubt us wanting to force him to "flesh" out the project more will have any effect on the outcome.

It's either that or just burn the coins, which is basically pointless as it ends in 8 days, he's still trying to pay back people who lent him money beyond the proposal and these types of things don't need to be discussed on a forum.

Why aren't we just funding him as a rep of Dash? Why do we expect him to be the first and only one to sit here and explain himself for days? his proposal is already more in depth than every single other proposal, so whats the issue here? The man works hard. The rest of us seem to be sitting here acting like know it alls because we have a high post count. Yet I only see 1 physical Dash project in the wild. Hmmm.

Let the projects grow, vote with a soft heart and an open mind. Or don't vote at all. If you insist on voting no on certain things, please have a good reason other than "not enough details". Still want more answers? Then provide him with questions. Not random ones that are so generic he couldn't ever please you.

What do you want to know specifically that he has not yet mentioned? Because anyone can set ridiculously high standards, but very few people can meet those expectations.
 
I want to see the projected expenses breakdown and the roadmap with deadlines for the milestones.
 
oaxaca said:
Remember people, this can be downvoted anytime. Why keep resubmitting it over and over and over. Just vote YES and see what happens.
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For me, the problem with that is that the price will rise, no doubt, and it makes me nervous to have that hanging over our heads, to choose when to cut it, get everyone together, etc... It's simply way too long a period. I know Evan did this with the core team budget, but if we had to keep an eye out on so many budgets, they'll start to slip under the radar. Probably not, but still, we're a conservative bunch and even Camo was arguing about waste. With a quarterly proposal, the team will kind of be forced to tell us how they've been putting the money to use, so that we'll vote for them again. This is healthy.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Solarminer how much do you owe from the dash'n'drink project?
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I think thats besides the point, maybe hes just trying to pay back some donations, or possibly recover from his personal expenses? Or perhaps do more with the machine? We can all play what ifs all day long, but at some point there needs to be a little freedom and trust around here.
 
Maybe this wasn't clear in the proposal.
We are planning to allocate a lot of the funds to developers. We know the wallets will take time to add features, we will be asking for a lot of man-hours. The software to get the backends to work correctly isn't easy. We will also be working with server platforms and may need assistance from, likely, an outside party to get shopping carts to work correctly. We need to pay the people that do the work, and that isn't free. Each product will have unique challenges and we may need to seek outside help pay them for their time. We will also have the cost of the products we will be converting/building and parts needed to test properly.

We are charting new territory. I would like to say that we know how to do all this already and here is our cost breakdown, but we don't. We will learn as we go. This is where the excitement begins.

Most investors risk their funds to have a chance at a big win. They don't usually get a detailed way their funds will be spent. This proposal is an opportunity that you don't even have to risk funds since they will be lost anyway. Why not put them to a good use? Pay our developers and expand the Dash Ecosystem.

As for my background, I am doing this because I want an option to buy things with my Dash. I own a solar company and do pretty well. I am not trying to collect an income with this project. This is meerly a way to give back to Dash with a project that I believe will make it exponentially better. Camosoul also owns a business. We know how to make projects succeed even with short time frames or difficult challenges.
 
Solarminer said:
Maybe this wasn't clear in the proposal.
We are planning to allocate a lot of the funds to developers. We know the wallets will take time to add features, we will be asking for a lot of man-hours. The software to get the backends to work correctly isn't easy. We will also be working with server platforms and may need assistance from, likely, an outside party to get shopping carts to work correctly. We need to pay the people that do the work, and that isn't free. Each product will have unique challenges and we may need to seek outside help pay them for their time. We will also have the cost of the products we will be converting/building and parts needed to test properly.

We are charting new territory. I would like to say that we know how to do all this already and here is our cost breakdown, but we don't. We will learn as we go. This is where the excitement begins.

Most investors risk their funds to have a chance at a big win. They don't usually get a detailed way their funds will be spent. This proposal is an opportunity that you don't even have to risk funds since they will be lost anyway. Why not put them to a good use? Pay our developers and expand the Dash Ecosystem.

As for my background, I am doing this because I want an option to buy things with my Dash. I own a solar company and do pretty well. I am not trying to collect an income with this project. This is meerly a way to give back to Dash with a project that I believe will make it exponentially better. Camosoul is also owns a business. We know how to make projects succeed even with short time frames or difficult challenges.
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We need numbers, dates, peoples names, addresses & phone numbers to verify these individuals. Whos getting the money? Can we see thier resumes as proof they are actually developers? Can you have them also come here and explain themselves to us? Because otherwise we'd prefer to just let the coins burn this month, and next month too most likely, because no one is going to submit a proposal this detailed, this early on. Not even the "official" dash team.

But you Solarminer need to provide this for us, as the soda machine project was too cool, and none of us helped with it, yet we feel obligated to hinder more projects like this.

/s
 
Solarminer I 'd have no trouble with you guys earning funds for your work, and I can see that 729 coins aren't going to be a lot to work with, and that if the price goes up, it can only help you, and frankly, I would think your budget could stay at 729 coins, even after a price rise as long as you show good progress. In fact, 8 years down the road you may need to keep that budget for this huge product support company you've created on behalf of Dash, but an 8 year budget is way to freaky for me :p Even so I really really want you all to do this :)
 
TheDashGuy said:
We need numbers, dates, peoples names, addresses & phone numbers to verify these individuals. Whos getting the money? Can we see thier resumes as proof they are actually developers? Can you have them also come here and explain themselves to us? Because otherwise we'd prefer to just let the coins burn this month, and next month too most likely, because no one is going to submit a proposal this detailed, this early on. Not even the "official" dash team.

But you Solarminer need to provide this for us, as the soda machine project was too cool, and none of us helped with it, yet we feel obligated to hinder more projects like this.

/s
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See, I don't think we need these things, if they can show us how things are going. We can start out with a little trust, because they've shown what they can do already, and frankly, they undoubtedly need to feel their way a bit. This is more of a startup than an established service provider who can set their rates. But again, that's why I'd like to see them forced to update us on how it's going so they can get the next quarter or biannual payment.

Solar, I'll even put up the 5 coins to re-submit a new proposal (er, if I could have 'em back if you win, please, LOL) I can't think of any project I'd like more, nor any better group of people to do it. Is there a reason it has to be 8 years?
 
TanteStefana said:
Solarminer I 'd have no trouble with you guys earning funds for your work, and I can see that 729 coins aren't going to be a lot to work with, and that if the price goes up, it can only help you, and frankly, I would think your budget could stay at 729 coins, even after a price rise as long as you show good progress. In fact, 8 years down the road you may need to keep that budget for this huge product support company you've created on behalf of Dash, but an 8 year budget is way to freaky for me :p Even so I really really want you all to do this :)
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I would consider this a fundamental long term project just like public-awareness and core-team. Currently both are 8 year projects. We had a big success with something as simple as a soda machine in Miami. Think if we continued with the next phase products! If the project gets voted out for a better project, great, I am looking forward to something even better. Until then, let's be productive and grow Dash.
 
TheDashGuy said:
We need numbers, dates, peoples names, addresses & phone numbers to verify these individuals. Whos getting the money? Can we see thier resumes as proof they are actually developers? Can you have them also come here and explain themselves to us? Because otherwise we'd prefer to just let the coins burn this month, and next month too most likely, because no one is going to submit a proposal this detailed, this early on. Not even the "official" dash team.

But you Solarminer need to provide this for us, as the soda machine project was too cool, and none of us helped with it, yet we feel obligated to hinder more projects like this.

/s
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There's nothing wrong with a little detail, it engages us and we feel better for it.
 
Solarminer said:
As for my background, I am doing this because I want an option to buy things with my Dash. I own a solar company and do pretty well. I am not trying to collect an income with this project. This is meerly a way to give back to Dash with a project that I believe will make it exponentially better. Camosoul also owns a business. We know how to make projects succeed even with short time frames or difficult challenges.
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A lot of us are waiting for the day we can make retail purchases anonymous and instantly, i remember a day before credit cards were everywhere. Now I want to see the dash payment puck everywhere. For me knowing Solarminer and Cam are on this I will vote yes, ever since this post in early Dec i've been expecting this day to come. I just don't really understand the downvote thing people are talking about. If there reference somewhere on wiki i will look after posting this and I think it's time i had my hands at some testnet proposals.

Do you down vote each month? or just once it's down voted and the proposal has to be restarted to get refunded?
 
Some thoughts on your Vendor proposal:

*your first project was a success which is good. It generated lots of attention and put Dash in the spotlight at the Miami conference
*just like Evan said in his comment, you need to present more details. The whole budget proposals consists of some very short vague paragraphs.
*Evan put more effort into writing his comment than you put into writing your whole proposal which raises questions about your ability to plan and execute properly
*you are asking for monthly payments for an open ended project basically
*I don't think the downvoting will work later on if project doesn't perform. Lots of voters won't return to an older proposal to downvote it which is why I don't think this is a good reason to upvote it
*If this proposal gets voted in its current form it will encourage other similar rushed proposals to be presented
 
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InTheWoods said:
Some thoughts on your Vendor proposal:

^your first project was a success which is good. It generated lots of attention and put Dash in the spotlight at the Miami conference
^just like Evan said in his comment, you need to present more details. The whole budget proposals consists of some very short vague paragraphs
^Evan put more effort into writing his comment than you put into writing your whole proposals which raises questions about your ability to plan and execute properly
^you are asking for monthly payments for an open ended project basically
^I don't think the downvoting will work later on if project doesn't perform. Lots of voters won't return to an older proposal to downvote it which is why I don't think this is a good reason to upvote it now regardless of the proposal being very vague
^If this proposal gets voted in its current form it will encourage other similar rushed proposals to be presented
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What do you call this?
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/transform-pr

Or:
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/dash-org
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/core-team
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/public-awareness


I don't see any expense reports, updates, feedback, details, resumes, dates or chat on these "rushed" proposals.
I see plenty of people suggesting we look into these things more, yet they are still funded., without discussion, without complaint.

He wants to build and test out ways to make a merchant experience that is good for retail use, why are we telling him no? Why are the coins just going to burn in 7 days? Please enlighten me of this.
 
OK, what if we compromise. And you promise not to hate me, and I'll be LOUD and DEMANDING of a monthly review of what you accomplished, and you'll give us a reasonable report, meaning at first, what your working on, what you've accomplished, how many contacts and potential users you've brought in, etc... answer my many questions with a smile, and I'll let it go 8 years :tongue: But you'd still have to convince everyone else, and I think shortening the time would go a long way in doing that :)
 
Miner237 said:
A lot of us are waiting for the day we can make retail purchases anonymous and instantly, i remember a day before credit cards were everywhere. Now I want to see the dash payment puck everywhere. For me knowing Solarminer and Cam are on this I will vote yes, ever since this post in early Dec i've been expecting this day to come. I just don't really understand the downvote thing people are talking about. If there reference somewhere on wiki i will look after posting this and I think it's time i had my hands at some testnet proposals.

Do you down vote each month? or just once it's down voted and the proposal has to be restarted to get refunded?
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Your vote stays in the yes/no/abstain until you change it. So if you change your vote from yes to no, you only need to do it once.

Basically, if a proposal gets voted no to the point where it has less than the 10% more yes votes it gets nullified. For example, if after 3 months a few hundred masternodes vote no and drop the % to only 5% yes above the no votes, the proposal drops off, just like it was only 3 months long to begin with.
  • Budgets are proposals which receive 10% of the possible votes (currently about 350 out of 3500) more yes votes than no votes.
  • Budgets can be nullified at any time if vote totals (cast or re-cast) fall below the approval threshold.
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/...ed+Governance:+Proposals,+Voting,+and+Budgets
 
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