Will mining Dash become profitable again?

[solarguy]

I've been playing the game far longer than you have matey. I switched from bitcoin to DASH because I thought this had a promise of global presence on it when it came to its technology. Right now, it just reeks of disappointment and a handful of community members that think they're the adults in the room who avoid "speculation".

What a waste of technology.

Did you read the Dash white paper? If not, I will give you a significant snip of it:

"x11 is a widely used hashing algorithm, which takes a different approach, known as algorithm chaining. x11 consists of all 11 SHA3 contestants[13], each hash is calculated then submitted to the next algorithm in the chain. By utilizing multiple algorithms, the likelihood that an ASIC is created for the currency is minimal until a later part of it’s life cycle."

This is pretty much exactly how it worked out in real life. So, rather than pointing a bunch of Bitcoin ASIC machines at mining Dash as soon as it came out in early 2014 and locking out the hobbyists, the small time miners could profitably mine dash for a year or two, or possibly three years before the X-11 ASIC machines were developed. But it was known and stated that eventually, ASIC machines would come out for X-11.


"Due to the complexity and die size required to create an ASIC for mining x11, we expect that it will take considerably longer than it did in Bitcoin, allowing for hobbyists to take part in the mining for a longer period of time. We believe this is highly important for good distribution and growth of a cryptocurrency."

And again, this is what happened in real life. Instead of Dash mining being completely gobbled up by BitCoin ASIC rigs by the second week, the little guys got several years of profitable mining.

But even from the very beginning, we knew this would happen. We have warned people repeatedly that this would happen. Now that it has actually happened, we feel sympathy for those who got caught with an expensive machine that only pays a few dollars per week. But we are not surprised.

Did you not see the warnings on the mining forum?

2 years in Crypto land is like 10 years in the rest of the world.

 

[patrick bell]

Did you read the Dash white paper? If not, I will give you a significant snip of it:

"x11 is a widely used hashing algorithm, which takes a different approach, known as algorithm chaining. x11 consists of all 11 SHA3 contestants[13], each hash is calculated then submitted to the next algorithm in the chain. By utilizing multiple algorithms, the likelihood that an ASIC is created for the currency is minimal until a later part of it’s life cycle."

This is pretty much exactly how it worked out in real life. So, rather than pointing a bunch of Bitcoin ASIC machines at mining Dash as soon as it came out in early 2014 and locking out the hobbyists, the small time miners could profitably mine dash for a year or two, or possibly three years before the X-11 ASIC machines were developed. But it was known and stated that eventually, ASIC machines would come out for X-11.


"Due to the complexity and die size required to create an ASIC for mining x11, we expect that it will take considerably longer than it did in Bitcoin, allowing for hobbyists to take part in the mining for a longer period of time. We believe this is highly important for good distribution and growth of a cryptocurrency."

And again, this is what happened in real life. Instead of Dash mining being completely gobbled up by BitCoin ASIC rigs by the second week, the little guys got several years of profitable mining.

But even from the very beginning, we knew this would happen. We have warned people repeatedly that this would happen. Now that it has actually happened, we feel sympathy for those who got caught with an expensive machine that only pays a few dollars per week. But we are not surprised.

Did you not see the warnings on the mining forum?

2 years in Crypto land is like 10 years in the rest of the world.

 

[patrick bell]

Great post. I recently received some D3 paperweights after watching the profitability plummet over the last three months while waiting for Bitmain to deliver after point of sale. Live and learn I guess. Quick question- From the DASH white paper they mention Asic mining cards being made sometime for DASH "until a later part of its life cycle". I was wondering why they would use the x11 script if it had a terminal life cycle? What "proof of work" is to replace the x11 script if any?

Bitmain has flooded the hobbyist LTC mining market with the L3++ and the L3++ is still quite profitable. Is this just a script issue? I am just going to hold the D3's for now hoping to see a $7-$10 per day/per machine return after power cost before it is worth setting up. I would love to here from a developer inside DASH comment on this.

 

[Checkerama]

Great post. I recently received some D3 paperweights after watching the profitability plummet over the last three months while waiting for Bitmain to deliver after point of sale. Live and learn I guess. Quick question- From the DASH white paper they mention Asic mining cards being made sometime for DASH "until a later part of its life cycle". I was wondering why they would use the x11 script if it had a terminal life cycle? What "proof of work" is to replace the x11 script if any?

Bitmain has flooded the hobbyist LTC mining market with the L3++ and the L3++ is still quite profitable. Is this just a script issue? I am just going to hold the D3's for now hoping to see a $7-$10 per day/per machine return after power cost before it is worth setting up. I would love to here from a developer inside DASH comment on this.

Then you should check out my article - I discuss this in depth and create coefficients independent of price in order to determine true profitability of the current ASIC miner. It is not good for miners to get into DASH at any point in comparison to mining bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@aquilesgomez/hi...11-algorithm-on-the-dash-network-f48533a5e6fe

I also debate on my own thread about the future of the current artifically inflated prices of DASH and why it may scare future investors away from putting money into it as an investment. I propose a solution that I know will never pass among the MNOs.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-mining-in-any-capacity-is-officially-dead.18051/page-3

As a DASH miner myself, I concluded to just let the difficulty settle in before making any future assumptions about mining profitability, but mining in the DASH community is heavily undervalued and MN are heavily overvalued.

 

[xoibsurferx]

Thank you for all of the replies! I learned a lot just from the few people that posted some great information!

I was NOT warned about mining and the risks besides fire hazards and the noise and heat asic miners create.

As Checkerama mentioned Dash actually has some really neat technology from a development standpoint (I'm actually a web developer) and its crazy that so many people are going away from Dash. Dash Evolution looks to be amazing and will make using crypto much easier for many non techie folks which will definitely be a game changer.

I'm in a tight spot with my Antminer D3 because I can't really afford to sell it for less than I paid for it and so I'm just going to have to mine with it until it won't pay for the electricity anymore.

Lets all just hope the mining profitability goes up and we're able to recover and reach ROI and then some if possible. I'd love to see Dash become more popular and actually use Dash but with so many people pulling away from it I'm not sure that'll happen.

 

[Dandy]

Who is pulling away from Dash?
If anything, it's getting more adopted day for day.

 

[solarguy]

Thank you for all of the replies! I learned a lot just from the few people that posted some great information!

I was NOT warned about mining and the risks besides fire hazards and the noise and heat asic miners create.

As Checkerama mentioned Dash actually has some really neat technology from a development standpoint (I'm actually a web developer) and its crazy that so many people are going away from Dash. Dash Evolution looks to be amazing and will make using crypto much easier for many non techie folks which will definitely be a game changer.

I'm in a tight spot with my Antminer D3 because I can't really afford to sell it for less than I paid for it and so I'm just going to have to mine with it until it won't pay for the electricity anymore.

Lets all just hope the mining profitability goes up and we're able to recover and reach ROI and then some if possible. I'd love to see Dash become more popular and actually use Dash but with so many people pulling away from it I'm not sure that'll happen.

When exactly did you make the decision to buy a mining rig for Dash?

 

[choco hamster]

This is really a suprise

I'm quite amuse how senior members of dash community is really hostile towards new members of the community.

I really understand about mining competition and difficulties.

What I don't understand is, from what I have been trolling on dash forum, the way dash community respond to new members.

It seems that the senior members have the right to bully new members.
Basically tell newbie they are loosers who came in late and just became prey and livestock for community.

Dash should really stop welcoming new members and generate new wallets if this is still going.

I don't really understand why asic miners are so condemned in this community.

How are the developers and community hopes for dash ecosystem would exist.
What make a crypto coin lives is the community. Not managements, not boards of directors.

Reading official developer report , they really hate private company for making big profit on making miners.

But the way dash goes, people who bought the miners will become the victim.

Ethereum does a fork to adjust difficulty bomb. To sustain the community and welcoming new members that really does belief in the system.

Bullying new member.
It is not competition. It is a kill switch.

Throughout my years of my worthless life, I only came to this exact hostile environment in a money game scam just when it about to burst.

For my self. I just suck up my D3.
I had high hope for dash. But I see now how I have been a fool.

 

[Dandy]

I'm sorry if you feel mistreated in any way and I understand the problem that you are facing as a miner.
That being said, there isn't anything that we MNOs can really do to help you in this situation. You are just a victim of supply and demand. We don't directly control the market, nor would we want to.
The best solution is to work on raising the value of Dash, so it will become more profitable for miners again.

 

[Checkerama]

Welcome to the Dash Cargo Cult.

You have already noticed the Dash Cult has a Caste System and how closely the over-defensive hostility of the community resembles that of previous scams such as Paycoin.

Let us describe in detail the Dash Caste System.

At the top of the pyramid is the Cult Leader and High Priest, Evan Duffield. Dash is whatever Evan decides to do, even to the point of altering the emission and renaming/rebranding the entire project.

Right below High Priest Duffield are the rest of the Dash Priest Caste, also known as the Dash Core Group. They are tasked with keeping the cargo cult running according the Duffield's True Vision.

Below them are the equivalent of the traditional Merchant Caste in the form of Masternode Owners. They enjoy the HYIP funded by bringing in new bagholders via normie-targeted marketing as well as the illusion that their votes can somehow alter the decisions higher caste members have already made (EG Million-Dollar Acrobatic-Man).

Supporting the MNOs are the Cult Enforcers and other types of Dash PaidShills. This is where the Plebian tier Dash Castes begin. Enforcers and PaidShills are poor people who whore their online personas out for a share of Dash's Astroturfing budget. They are the Soldier Caste, mercenaries who are bought and sold like horses. Amanda B Johnson is their high-profile standard bearer.

At the very bottom of the Dash Pyramid are the bagholding noobs. Like you, they get shit upon by the higher castes and are considered untouchable in polite Dash Core Group circles.

As evidence of these claims I offer the facts that a Masternode costs $750k and simply submitting a proposal costs $5k. That is not distributed governance by blockchain, that is a whaleocracy where only the Instaminers' opinions matter because they control 90% of all the Masternode votes.

Yeah but don't tell the MNOs that their vote is being manipulated by more than half of all masternodes created in Aug 2015 (literal months after the coin came out), they'll have a hissy fit and tell you they have the power they have because they made SUUUCH a big risk by locking in 1000 DASH and covering a maintenance of like 50 bucks a month while getting paid 8% of their 1000 DASH throughout the year and theyre SUUUCH smart businessmen for literally doing what any early crypto adopter did - hold.

 

[solarguy]

Yeah but don't tell the MNOs that their vote is being manipulated by more than half of all masternodes created in Aug 2015 (literal months after the coin came out), they'll have a hissy fit and tell you they have the power they have because they made SUUUCH a big risk by locking in 1000 DASH and covering a maintenance of like 50 bucks a month while getting paid 8% of their 1000 DASH throughout the year and theyre SUUUCH smart businessmen for literally doing what any early crypto adopter did - hold.

Why yes, there have been some attempts to manipulate the vote by social engineering methods, but largely by people that don't have masternodes at all, with one or two notable exceptions.

But our community and treasury process are robust enough that, despite the various trolling techniques being used against us, we continue to march on to make a difference in the world.

 

[choco hamster]

I'm sorry if you feel mistreated in any way and I understand the problem that you are facing as a miner.
That being said, there isn't anything that we MNOs can really do to help you in this situation. You are just a victim of supply and demand. We don't directly control the market, nor would we want to.
The best solution is to work on raising the value of Dash, so it will become more profitable for miners again.

Don't be sorry for me.

I was standing up for new members of the community that get bullied.
Look all the responses in this thread alone. Not counting on other threads.

I jumped the dash band wagon because I believed in the system. If this is the way dash going. Well, I was wrong.

I guess all MNO should really learn about human. We are people with emotion.

If these are they way dash governed, well it will be the same as aristocracy. Just Forget about democracy that made me jump on dash band wagon.

supply and demand? I think @Checkerama has done extensive and thorough research on the future of dash network on his thread.

The price hike can't justify the increased difficult unless some things are done to deal with the difficulty bomb. As simple as that.


I don't talk about risk. Every investment has that. High risk high gain.

My question remain. What will become of dash community ?

Why yes, there have been some attempts to manipulate the vote by social engineering methods, but largely by people that don't have masternodes at all, with one or two notable exceptions.

But our community and treasury process are robust enough that, despite the various trolling techniques being used against us, we continue to march on to make a difference in the world.

That my friend. Is a blatant ignorance.
I ask of you very simple thing.

Arrange dash comunity meetup between MNO and non MNO. not just meetup for people who does not know about dash. but for those involve in market and production (miners).

Try to face real people. With real emotion. Instead just screen.

The strength of community lies on the heart of the people. Not just some assets or treasury.

Proof me wrong that dash community can support each other. Rather than at each other throat in the name of competition.

Or worse. we are all just expendables.

 

[demo]

Don't be sorry for me.

I was standing up for new members of the community that get bullied.
Look all the responses in this thread alone. Not counting on other threads.

I jumped the dash band wagon because I believed in the system. If this is the way dash going. Well, I was wrong.

I guess all MNO should really learn about human. We are people with emotion.

If these are they way dash governed, well it will be the same as aristocracy. Just Forget about democracy that made me jump on dash band wagon.

supply and demand? I think @Checkerama has done extensive and thorough research on the future of dash network on his thread.

The price hike can't justify the increased difficult unless some things are done to deal with the difficulty bomb. As simple as that.


I don't talk about risk. Every investment has that. High risk high gain.

My question remain. What will become of dash community ?



That my friend. Is a blatant ignorance.
I ask of you very simple thing.

Arrange dash comunity meetup between MNO and non MNO. not just meetup for people who does not know about dash. but for those involve in market and production (miners).

Try to face real people. With real emotion. Instead just screen.

The strength of community lies on the heart of the people. Not just some assets or treasury.

Proof me wrong that dash community can support each other. Rather than at each other throat in the name of competition.

Or worse. we are all just expendables.

Dont worry. What matters, is the community. A simple hard fork can solve many problems, then let Dash aristocracy eat their own flesh.

In the meantime, lets analyze MNOs behavior, and spot the guilty ones. Not all masternodes are guilty. Lets separate seeds from weed.

 

[Dandy]

supply and demand? I think @Checkerama has done extensive and thorough research on the future of dash network on his thread.

The price hike can't justify the increased difficult unless some things are done to deal with the difficulty bomb. As simple as that.

There is no difficulty bomb. The formula for calculating difficulty hasn't changed.
The only thing that is changed is the efficiency of the new batch of miners and number of units sold.

 

[solarguy]

Don't be sorry for me.

I was standing up for new members of the community that get bullied.
Look all the responses in this thread alone. Not counting on other threads.

I jumped the dash band wagon because I believed in the system. If this is the way dash going. Well, I was wrong.

I guess all MNO should really learn about human. We are people with emotion.

If these are they way dash governed, well it will be the same as aristocracy. Just Forget about democracy that made me jump on dash band wagon.

supply and demand? I think @Checkerama has done extensive and thorough research on the future of dash network on his thread.

The price hike can't justify the increased difficult unless some things are done to deal with the difficulty bomb. As simple as that.


I don't talk about risk. Every investment has that. High risk high gain.

My question remain. What will become of dash community ?



That my friend. Is a blatant ignorance.
I ask of you very simple thing.

Arrange dash comunity meetup between MNO and non MNO. not just meetup for people who does not know about dash. but for those involve in market and production (miners).

Try to face real people. With real emotion. Instead just screen.

The strength of community lies on the heart of the people. Not just some assets or treasury.

Proof me wrong that dash community can support each other. Rather than at each other throat in the name of competition.

Or worse. we are all just expendables.

Show me examples of this bullying that do not come from Demo, Camo or RGXDK.

 

[redstar0]

This was a problem my mining group had. One of us spent $20k on equipment. He barely made back his investment. I asked him how he's doing since July. He said he turned it off in August and went into exchanges. There's still a few good coins where you can pull in a decent amount vs the equipment. But overall it's a shrinking field. Maybe by 2025 it'll mostly be server farms?

 

[Checkerama]

This was a problem my mining group had. One of us spent $20k on equipment. He barely made back his investment. I asked him how he's doing since July. He said he turned it off in August and went into exchanges. There's still a few good coins where you can pull in a decent amount vs the equipment. But overall it's a shrinking field. Maybe by 2025 it'll mostly be server farms?

Doubt it - I don't know anyone dumb enough to invest a server farm after this dump in profits when they can just spend the same amount to garner over 8 times the profit mining other coins.

 

[Eshank]

I am a Noob to Dash. ( got 4 yrs on Litecoin )

I bought a Miner for $10K. ROI in my lifetime impossible at today's difficulty.
Very bad investment on my part - regretting it bitterly now.

What do you do in an eco-system supported by miners, where miners cannot make a living, or even pay off their equipment ?
Does anybody see this as being a problem ?
It is actually more of a problem than you might think. It is an existential threat.
I do not know enough about Dash to make predictions, I just go on fundamentals.
Dash has got some fundamental problems, and I think MN's are key to it.

Sure, all Crypto's are caught up in Bitcoins wake, but once that subsides I think a great many Crypto's are heading for the DoleDrums.
Enthusiasm for Dash will not be very high among Miners.
Enthusiasm for Dash will not be high with clients either, if the know that miners are struggling.
Everybody knows that without Miners you have no Crypto.
If the Miners sell off their holdings and go on strike, they can bring the pack of cards down with it.

Any thoughts anyone ?

 

[Checkerama]

I am a Noob to Dash. ( got 4 yrs on Litecoin )

I bought a Miner for $10K. ROI in my lifetime impossible at today's difficulty.
Very bad investment on my part - regretting it bitterly now.

What do you do in an eco-system supported by miners, where miners cannot make a living, or even pay off their equipment ?
Does anybody see this as being a problem ?
It is actually more of a problem than you might think. It is an existential threat.
I do not know enough about Dash to make predictions, I just go on fundamentals.
Dash has got some fundamental problems, and I think MN's are key to it.

Sure, all Crypto's are caught up in Bitcoins wake, but once that subsides I think a great many Crypto's are heading for the DoleDrums.
Enthusiasm for Dash will not be very high among Miners.
Enthusiasm for Dash will not be high with clients either, if the know that miners are struggling.
Everybody knows that without Miners you have no Crypto.
If the Miners sell off their holdings and go on strike, they can bring the pack of cards down with it.

Any thoughts anyone ?

Way ahead of you

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-mining-in-any-capacity-is-officially-dead.18051/

 

[Eshank]

OK, Thanks for the link.
As I said I'm a Dash Noob.
Still got lots of homework to catch up on