You have just fully outed yourself. Obviously, distrust of a guv spookproject makes me a criminal! Probably a turrist too!
And this is the silliest math I have seen in a long time.
Which Masternode model should we implement?
- Thread starter eduffield
- Start date
You have just fully outed yourself. Obviously, distrust of a guv spookproject makes me a criminal! Probably a turrist too!
And this is the silliest math I have seen in a long time.
darkstrike420
Active member
If my math sucks so bad.. Ok. Now since you're this awesome hacker who doesn't talk out of his ass then go on, please find a Tor vulnerability capable of full deanonymization(hidden services, not out-proxy). If you do this, not only you will get paid but also you will help make Tor better.
You have tor source-code at your fingertips. Should be easy for a professional security researcher such as yourself...
Can you even code? LOL.
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Guys, take it easy... really...
Now few silly questions from me (no Tor knowledge, to access smth restricted in my beautiful country I still prefer using VPN):
1) is it possible to access smth inside Tor from outside Internet without using Tor specific proxy/smthelse?
2) if "no" does it mean that MNs outside Tor will not be able to talk to MNs inside Tor? -> MN network fragmentation?
3) same ^^ for user wallets
Now few silly questions from me (no Tor knowledge, to access smth restricted in my beautiful country I still prefer using VPN):
1) is it possible to access smth inside Tor from outside Internet without using Tor specific proxy/smthelse?
2) if "no" does it mean that MNs outside Tor will not be able to talk to MNs inside Tor? -> MN network fragmentation?
3) same ^^ for user wallets
darkstrike420
Active member
Correct. If masternodes go under Tor then wallets will need Tor installed too.
There are services such as tor2web but those are only for websites and it sucks lol.
If asking users to install Tor is such a problem then Darkcoin can simply host a Tor proxy and announce its Ip address and port publicly for everyone to use.
I think going under Tor for Darkcoin is a huge PR gain too. I am sure Torproject would blog about it and Torproject is known more than bitcoin.
Edit: If traffic encryption between wallet <-> masternode matters too then Tor does it for you.
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Further adoption killed stone dead right there.
Centralised point of failure much?
Huge PR gain? "Darkcoin now operating under US Gov funded spook network!" - I don't think so.
Don't need TOR for this.
Wow I just had a break for PR related to the article I just posted, here is another link.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-mano-with-nsa-director-over-crypo-backdoors/
When this happens:
MR: I’ve got a lot of world-class cryptographers at the National Security Agency.
AS: I’ve talked to some of those folks and some of them agree too, but…
MR: Oh, we agree that we don’t accept each other's premise. [laughing]
What the Director of the NSA just said is that his own experts disagree with him on this. And that he puts himself in a different category and group than his own colleagues and experts... ouch! I'd feel ignored if I worked there! He doesn't even accept their premise, do they have a choice to refuse his? Or discuss it? Because a premise is before discussion, right? So he does not even accept the opinion of his experts for discussion? What a joke!
BTW I wonder who are the lobbyists here, are they registered and are their activities within regulation
More importantly, this little joke of his is now something that can be brought up and referenced to specifically, over and over again to counter any opposite arguments, it creates pressure lines in the very foundation of any and every argument that can be used against any kind of encryption every time the subject comes up... Let today be the first day
I am naming this the ''MIke Rogers'' defence. --- Even NSA security experts believe in online privacy and encryption according to Mike Rogers. And he is the Director of the NSA.
To answer the question should there be backdoors?
Well, according to Mike Rogers some NSA security experts believe there should not be backdoors. He disagrees with his own experts on this. I personally think its concerning to know a disgruntled employee there or any other party could hack the NSA computers get there hands on the backdoor codes at any time. Its like putting the masterkey on a leaky ship and if history has proven anything its that the NSA is a leaky ship, thank you M. Snowden for warning us of their incompetence even more than their lies
I know... coffee break hahaha, a little afternoon humor but true nonetheless
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-mano-with-nsa-director-over-crypo-backdoors/
When this happens:
MR: I’ve got a lot of world-class cryptographers at the National Security Agency.
AS: I’ve talked to some of those folks and some of them agree too, but…
MR: Oh, we agree that we don’t accept each other's premise. [laughing]
What the Director of the NSA just said is that his own experts disagree with him on this. And that he puts himself in a different category and group than his own colleagues and experts... ouch! I'd feel ignored if I worked there! He doesn't even accept their premise, do they have a choice to refuse his? Or discuss it? Because a premise is before discussion, right? So he does not even accept the opinion of his experts for discussion? What a joke!
BTW I wonder who are the lobbyists here, are they registered and are their activities within regulation
More importantly, this little joke of his is now something that can be brought up and referenced to specifically, over and over again to counter any opposite arguments, it creates pressure lines in the very foundation of any and every argument that can be used against any kind of encryption every time the subject comes up... Let today be the first day
I am naming this the ''MIke Rogers'' defence. --- Even NSA security experts believe in online privacy and encryption according to Mike Rogers. And he is the Director of the NSA.
To answer the question should there be backdoors?
Well, according to Mike Rogers some NSA security experts believe there should not be backdoors. He disagrees with his own experts on this. I personally think its concerning to know a disgruntled employee there or any other party could hack the NSA computers get there hands on the backdoor codes at any time. Its like putting the masterkey on a leaky ship and if history has proven anything its that the NSA is a leaky ship, thank you M. Snowden for warning us of their incompetence even more than their lies
I know... coffee break
hahaha, a little afternoon humor but true nonetheless
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Hmm... Just quickly read through few tor installation pages - do I get it right that user will have to keep tor browser open to have local tor proxy up? (at least on windows: found some advanced tips for mac os and linux, but not for windows yet)
Hosting a Tor proxy... we'll be FUDed to death of 'yet another central point' / could be DDoSed as well...
darkstrike420
Active member
Sure. No DDOS protection with amplification support is more of a central point of failure.
Only reason Black markets are successful is because of Tor. Darkcoin will get huge trust if it uses Tor.
This is a matter of Evan doing as less work as possible. Sure he can code Tor alternative but how long it will take him? A year.. more? Where is even guarantee that his alternative works properly?
You didn't answer my question. Can you even code? I asked you to find vulnerability in Tor.. Have you found any? Or you're just all talk and do nothin'?
Listen smartass.. What will Darkcoin do when it becomes illegal? All masternodes get raided and shutdown. Darkcoin IX and Darksend won't work thus it becomes useless and completely destroyed.
What the bloody fuck will Darkcoin do? Answer me smartass.
No. They don't need Tor Browser open. There is standalone Tor bundle and on linux all they do is apt-get install tor. thats it.
Tor browser is only for browsing with flash and other shit disabled which Darkcoin does not need.
Yes hosting a tor proxy is a bad idea. I don't see where is problem for every user to install Tor. It weights only a couple MB's and is open-source.
cmon, while I feel you have some notable knowledge and I'm thankful for your help to make Darkcoin stronger/survive in bad days I would be even more thankful if you could stop talking in such aggressive manner. We are sharing information here with each other, not trying to figure out who is better programmer or smth... You are not making Tor option look better arguing in such way. I would even say otherwise.
Just calm down and lets find the best solution possible weighting every Pros and Cons.
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
I would like to chime in again here. I have read through this thread with an open mind, and heard each side's pros and cons. After doing this, and taking all aspects of Darkcoin into consideration (i.e. security, usability, future adoption, sustainability), I am firmer into the #1 camp than I was at the beginning. We don't have anything to fear, we will always survive, we have shown that time and time again. Let's not rely on third party capabilities. Besides, is building our own TOR not on our list of long-term plans? We could do better.
My 2 Duffs, FWIW.
My 2 Duffs, FWIW.
darkstrike420
Active member
I am not being aggressive, I am sorry if you thought I am. I called him a smartass because he sure acts smart and "bloody fuck" is just a figure of speech from England.
Though I don't like these guys who talk much about stuff they know nothing about and when asked to do anything to support their claim they leave like nothing ever happened.
I am not even trying to force Tor on anyone. I think Darkcoin will suceed even when being on Clearnet. But in case of illegality, it will look extremely bad(punishable by law?) of the developer to drag it under an anonymizing service to keep his project alive and being illegal it cannot live in the clearnet.
Right now, I think Evan should focus mainly on IX and DS and return to this topic in a couple months.
darkstrike420
Active member
Building an efficient too like Tor requires strong networking knowledge. Its a huge risk to say the least. Why not use open-source & peer-to-peer available solutions right now? I2P is one, though I have heard Torproject is planning to decentralize dir-auth-servers too.
I suspect that the authorities will make owning masternodes difficult before they actually try to make it illegal--at least in jurisdictions which try to maintain a veneer of democracy. I would suggest that the first shot over the bow against DRK, will be the discovery that someone's Coinbase acct. was dropped because they bought DRK. Does anyone know if there is any evidence of this yet? Coinbase is proving a very effective repository of FUD through their refusal to give clear reason for their actions, which leave participants guessing as to why their accounts have been closed.
Just poked my head in for a moment and need to run. The conversation thus far has been very enlightening; but try to keep it civil.
Just poked my head in for a moment and need to run. The conversation thus far has been very enlightening; but try to keep it civil.
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
My VPS provider has datacenters all around the world, and that has allowed me to spread my nodes globally. I don't expect everyone else to do so as every dollar saved counts right now, but when the price gets higher (like 10x what it is now or so) people won't be so cheap with their masternodes anymore and will give more thought as to where and how to run them.
I'm not sure if trying to fight the NSA is something that should be wasted resources on. They already know everything. They have backdoors in every CPU, motherboard, video card, router, hard drive, everywhere. If using tor is something that stops everyone else then imo it should be used until something better comes along.
Wrt users having to install tor - if it's open source, does the license allow adding only the needed parts to the darkcoin wallet so there would be no need to install anything extra?
If the functionality is limited i.e. it only has to work with Darkcoin network and not support everything from ftp to streaming multimedia, would it be easier?
TaoOfSatoshi
Well-known member
Fun futuristic scenario:
Imagine in 2020, the US and 60 other countries declare Darkcoin illegal.
Evan, from his bunker somewhere in Siberian Russia, issues the command we've all been waiting for:
"Please update to Darkcoin Stealth v1.0.0: Includes the fix for complete network invisibility!"
The network promptly updates, and effectively disappears.
Prices skyrocket past 1000 BTC...
Ahhhhh... That was great!
Snap back to reality now.
Imagine in 2020, the US and 60 other countries declare Darkcoin illegal.
Evan, from his bunker somewhere in Siberian Russia, issues the command we've all been waiting for:
"Please update to Darkcoin Stealth v1.0.0: Includes the fix for complete network invisibility!"
The network promptly updates, and effectively disappears.
Prices skyrocket past 1000 BTC...
Ahhhhh... That was great!
Snap back to reality now.
darkstrike420
Active member
Not at all. All you mentioned is using TCP, by supporting the HTTP protocol he automatically supports FTP and everything else because HTTP and FTP and most others are built on top of TCP. He has to support TCP, if DRK uses UDP then UDP too. Tor doesn't even support UDP.
jpr
Well-known member
Moving from Arizona to Siberian Russia lol. He would have to take a lot of miners with him to keep him warm