We should reduce the cost of proposals.

Should we lower the cost of Dash to submit a proposal?

  • Total voters
    48
TheDashGuy

TheDashGuy

Well-known member
This would create an environment where smaller more useful projects can be funded without having to "risk" 5 Dash which is becoming ever more valuable by the day.

We want to see the budget fund items worth 100$ or less here and there for smaller awareness projects and to help the Nodes "vote" on ideas within the community at the same time. SO why don't we get rid of this huge barrier to entry and stop charging $25-35 to submit a proposal....

Thoughts?
 
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Solarminer said:
How about we do 0.5 Dash for less than 100 dash proposals and 5 Dash for over 100 Dash proposals? It would encourage proposals less than 100 Dash for a smaller fee and encourage more effort to submit larger proposals.
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We also need better standards and proposals should require better information than some have in the past, having smaller budget proposals would keep the nodes on their toes and keep people excited at the same time, we could learn alot from cheaper smaller proposals and not be learning these lessons on the bigger more risky ones....
 
The only way to enforce standards for submitting proposals is to not vote for proposals without all the info. The system is decentralized and anyone can submit a proposal to the block chain with a description. The only two proposals without detail on how expenses will be used are core-team and public awareness. Oh, wait, I mean exchange awareness. So now the entire title and description are not even correct.

I must have missed the last 8 paycheck postings, but this is in the description of core-team:
We will be 100% transparent about who on our team is paid and how much they are paid.

We really should split this up into smaller proposals. Core-team 12.1 / electrum / evolution etc. This is slowly happening. This can be also be a way to decide what gets worked on first. And no I don't expect to know what each person is actually paid, just pointing out that the description doesn't match the results.
 
How about setting up a fund to cover small projects, run by trusted people, funded by a specific amount? 100 DASH per month? 200? that kind of figure

The trusted people
  • decide on projects
  • report on success/failure
DASH Foundation?

If confidence is lost in the way the fund is being managed, withdraw funding.

A current example: the guy who wants sponsorship to run in a marathon - he needs 100 DASH (about?) - surely we dont need 3000+ masternodes to vote on that?

The budget system is cool, but I dont think it should be used to micro-manage. It could be used to allocate funds at the strategic level.
 
I think the 5 DASH fee, which started out as a $15 fee but now sits at about $35, could be adjusted slightly to account for the rising value of DASH. A 3 DASH fee seems pretty safe, i.e. a $21 fee will still keep the spam away. The quality and rate of proposals coming in are impressive, and we should encourage this behavior without imposing a stifling fee.
If we make adjustments as if DASH will rise in the future, it just might. :)
 
daf said:
5 Dash is fine. Does the community want to be flooded by proposals?
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Yes, I want a lot of small proposals with more diverse creative talent. We won't get that with a large fee to submit them. Maybe a lot of the masternodes decide not to vote on the small proposals. Only need 10% yes to pass so it doesn't require 100% participation. It also allows the option for certain votes without significant expense.

If you have micro-proposals owned by a project manager, you are stuck having a well known core person wasting time managing, providing updates, etc. Decentralize it, save time, and let the process do the work.

As for spam, it isn't a 30 second process to submit a proposal. It takes time and requires some reading, at this point just the difficulty in submitting a proposal is probably enough to discourage spam.
 
5 DASH is still a fair price for proposal submission. It should not be changed, IMO, at current DASH prices. (From my point of view, when the DASH price exceeds ±20USD, then it might start to become "expensive".

As I see it, if one does not have enough belief in his own proposal (enough belief as to justify the 5 DASH fee payment) this means the proposal is not "relevant" (this person should abstain from submitting such proposal, first of all).

Also, my opinion is that all the fees paid for proposal submissions should be 100% directed for the DASH Foundation budget, instead of burned... but I understand that this may be a controversial idea, anyway.


Solarminer said:
Yes, I want a lot of small proposals with more diverse creative talent. We won't get that with a large fee to submit them. Maybe a lot of the masternodes decide not to vote on the small proposals. Only need 10% yes to pass so it doesn't require 100% participation. It also allows the option for certain votes without significant expense.

If you have micro-proposals owned by a project manager, you are stuck having a well known core person wasting time managing, providing updates, etc. Decentralize it, save time, and let the process do the work.

As for spam, it isn't a 30 second process to submit a proposal. It takes time and requires some reading, at this point just the difficulty in submitting a proposal is probably enough to discourage spam.
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The problem is the system being flooded with tiny unimportant "not so relevant" proposals, with people "left, right and centre" spamming proposals that, instead of contributing to the improvement of the system, will only create a mess and a decrease in decision quality....

... not everything has to necessarily pass through the voting system: there are many "tiny" decisions that are not "worthwhile" enough to justify moving the system, and so risking confusing/dispersing the attention of the community/voters.
 
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We decided to go with 5 DASH for reasons and here are few of them.

Solarminer said:
...
As for spam, it isn't a 30 second process to submit a proposal. It takes time and requires some reading, at this point just the difficulty in submitting a proposal is probably enough to discourage spam.
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Not on the technical level :wink:
If the price were too low one can make 1000 proposals literally in minutes via a simple script creating a little chaos there and to remove them we'd have to vote all of them down. But by casting that many votes we'd probably crash some of low-end MNs :rolleyes: (current version of DGBB it's not very well optimized memory wise).

Another reason is - it has to be high enough to encourage proposal submitter to think twice before submitting and to discuss his proposal first to get as much replies as possible to predict the possible voting outcome.

With that being said, it doesn't really matter is it 5 DASH or even 15 DASH fee (note: higher, not lower for reasons I described above): if it's a valuable proposal and you are quite confident that it should pass (e.g. you have tons of positive feedback in replies) - you can simply reimburse them by including another 5/15/whateverthefeeis DASH into you proposal price.
 
remember we should keep this simple !
more proposals will come (this is just the beginning)
different fees + payback or whatnot will way complicate this !

5 Dash is in place for a reason
we should keep it as is (as that part is proven to work)
 
I get the logic for it sounds sound.

But I disagree with static thinking here. Once 1 DASH is $1,000.00 these 5 DASH would dwarf many proposal's budget. Why not employ some forward-thinking and get ready about various outcomes NOW and not wait for the problem to pop up and say, for example: simply scale the fee to be proportionate, but not prohibitive, to the proposals budgets?
 
GreyGhost said:
I get the logic for it sounds sound.

But I disagree with static thinking here. Once 1 DASH is $1,000.00 these 5 DASH would dwarf many proposal's budget. Why not employ some forward-thinking and get ready about various outcomes NOW and not wait for the problem to pop up and say, for example: simply scale the fee to be proportionate, but not prohibitive, to the proposals budgets?
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does not work as we will still get spammed to death !

Example
Proposal for 10 Dash for xxx (whatever)
say 1% of proposals will be fee (as you speaking of 1k US$ per Dash in the future)
0.1 Dash Fee and there we are Spam Central !

No need to think what happens when Dash his 1k US$, i think we have time to figure this out until then :wink:
 
tungfa said:
does not work as we will still get spammed to death !
Example
Proposal for 10 Dash for xxx (whatever)
say 1% of proposals will be fee (as you speaking of 1k US$ per Dash in the future)
0.1 Dash Fee and there we are Spam Central !
Click to expand...

Sure, but the "scale" can start at 5 DASH. if–then–else or an equivalent in the code can take care of the scale once DASH is $20.00 / $100.00 / $500.00 / $1,000.00 etc...

tungfa said:
No need to think what happens when Dash his 1k US$, i think we have time to figure this out until then :wink:
Click to expand...

Famous last words. "No need to think," until the car hits the wall, the credit cards are maxed out, the mortgage payment is due, until the leak is bigger... :wink:
 
GreyGhost said:
Sure, but the "scale" can start at 5 DASH. if–then–else or an equivalent in the code can take care of the scale once DASH is $20.00 / $100.00 / $500.00 / $1,000.00 etc...



Famous last words. "No need to think," until the car hits the wall, the credit cards are maxed out, the mortgage payment is due, until the leak is bigger... :wink:
Click to expand...

LoL
:grin:
 
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