Self-sustainable Decentralized Governance by Blockchain

[tungfa]

You still can't see or read? I'm not saying this is definitely done but here let me paste it for you:

View attachment 1340

whow
yes it seems i need glasses as i did not see that

well marketing budget, perfect, exactly what we need !
- logo and graphic designs (we are all paying out of own pocket in the moment)
- conference entrance fees
- advertisements
- pay PR firm
- travel for meetings
- ... i can go on

this does NOT mean that i will run off with these funds
this means that there will be a marketing budget next to a coding budget
(thank god it is on the list)

 

[darkwing]

Keep it constructive people. Focus on the proposal. Suggest improvements. Test it with good and bad scenarios. Keep your head in gear and your emotions in neutral.

 

[AnarchicCluster]

Maybe that should be implemented and tried before 15% of the entire money supply gets stockpiled regardless of whether the 'voters' want this to happen or not?

Agree. If it doesn't work and turns into one unholly mess, Evan can always use spork.

 

[alex-ru]

Not really. There is currently no functioning proposal / voting system for anyone to submit projects to. Maybe that should be implemented and tried before 15% of the entire money supply gets stockpiled regardless of whether the 'voters' want this to happen or not?

Masternode operators can do it now - setup a donations to whatever they want. But about no donations are done...

And this is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

 

[balu]

Masternode operators can do it now - setup a donations to whatever they want. But about no donations are done...

And this is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

No. That's only part of the reason. There was no clear information about this available; neither about how to donate, donation addresses, and donation causes. Do not expect people to donate unless it's easy, clear, and well communicated (both the goals and the results). We were lacking in ALL of these.

But I agree, even if everything about the donation was done perfectly still only a part of MN owners would have donated.

 

[thelonecrouton]

whow
yes it seems i need glasses as i did not see that

well marketing budget, perfect, exactly what we need !
- logo and graphic designs (we are all paying out of own pocket in the moment)
- conference entrance fees
- advertisements
- pay PR firm
- travel for meetings
- ... i can go on

this does NOT mean that i will run off with these funds
this means that there will be a marketing budget next to a coding budget
(thank god it is on the list)

I will be voting No With Extreme Prejudice to all of the above. Unless of course the proposal involves sending me to Vegas. :grin:

Masternode operators can do it now - setup a donations to whatever they want. But about no donations are done...

And this is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

No, when specific projects were proposed, like the Kristov Atlas code review and the promo video, funding was supllied in short order. And while I am unable to prove it, I believe the vast majority of that funding came from MN ops.

 

[alex-ru]

... the promo video...

Trying to get money for it was a kind of shame (IMHO) - this is what has shown that for the ambitious plans - this approach does not work at all.

 

[thelonecrouton]

No. That's only part of the reason. There was no clear information about this available; neither about how to donate, donation addresses, and donation causes. Do not expect people to donate unless it's easy, clear, and well communicated (both the goals and the results). We were lacking in ALL of these.

But I agree, even if everything about the donation was done perfectly still only a part of MN owners would have donated.

Personally, 'free riders' are a lesser evil than enforced taxation.

 

[tungfa]

I will be voting No With Extreme Prejudice to all of the above. Unless of course the proposal involves sending me to Vegas. :grin:

you get the haircut
i go to vegas
:wink:

[/QUOTE]No, when specific projects were proposed, like the Kristov Atlas code review and the promo video, funding was supllied in short order. And while I am unable to prove it, I believe the vast majority of that funding came from MN ops.[/QUOTE]

we are past crowdfunding
trust me on that, it is a pain to raise fund on a steady bases , no way
we really need this from all MNs, it is NOT that we have to give up %, just the pay rise stops at 45%
everything else stays as is

to learn from BTC and their mistakes (we have the best teacher/example constantly in front of us)
this is the next natural step we should do
secure the future (funding = development/marketing)
we just have to fine-tune this a bit but the general idea is amazing and perfect in timing to get this moving forward
:smile:

 

[tungfa]

Trying to get money for it was a kind of shame (IMHO) - this is what has shown that for the ambitious plans - this approach does not work at all.

the video is in production and everything fine
that has nothing to do with this discussion
these jobs need time, so do not hold your breath
it is being worked on every day !

 

[JGCMiner]

What is the point of doing any of this if masternodes can vote to keep the money? That is just a donation system where you are expecting people to give to the project out of the goodness of their hearts... we already have a masternode donation system. Evan is trying to propose something better than donations and it is already clear that some don't want to part with any coins.

Plus why should masternodes get the right to vote on the direction of the project if they aren't required to give something up in return? The fixed % is the "fee" paid to get the right the steer the project. It makes no sense if you get that right, something not available to regular nodes, and then you can vote to get the "fee" you paid for that right returned to you.

 

[thelonecrouton]

you get the haircut
i go to vegas
:wink:

Yeah, I know how the world works. I won't even get the haircut. :grin:

we are past crowdfunding

How can you say this? We have barely tried it at all. Look at some of the numbers here: https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded

 

[alex-ru]

Look at some of the numbers here: https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded

It is absolutely different story - if it was possibility to be a 'free riders' there - none of that projects will ever come true.

 

[tungfa]

How can you say this? We have barely tried it at all. Look at some of the numbers here: https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded

i am talking about crowdfunding community based
as public crowdfunding will bring you a totally different bag of troubles

decentralised and independent ?
not with that
we do not need them, we can do this on our own

 

[thelonecrouton]

I wasn't suggesting we use kickstarter, I was pointing out that people will pay for what they want.

I don't share Minotaur's view that us MN ops are all too short sighted, parsimonious and stupid to vote for something that we think will benefit us and by extension everyone else involved with DASH.

How about we give the system a trial run first and see how voluntary funding of clearly defined and costed proposals goes before the Great Siphoning gets imposed?

 

[tungfa]

look at them
http://cointelegraph.com/news/114046/mit-to-take-over-funding-of-three-bitcoin-core-developers
totally 'chickening out' of all of this they could do
satochi would be embarrassed

come on
i thought the idea was to be a truly decentralised, trustless, independent entity ?
what happened ? a couple of hick ups and 10% and we are all looking the opposite way for ideas.

evan had great ideas before, and it seems to me he had another one
lets make it work and crunsh some numbers

 

[alex-ru]

I wasn't suggesting we use kickstarter, I was pointing out that people will pay for what they want.

... but if they may not pay and get the same result - they won't pay. Or pay just some symbolical amounts (not real money that DASH need to become "Crypto #1").

 

[darkwing]

Not everything is as exciting as a pebble/etc. kickstarter type project. Particularly since 99% of the general population doesn't understand bitcoin never mind dash.

To continually hold out a hat is just inefficient. And some things are necessary but are too boring to garner donations.

To have money available to go ok I want to do this and this is the desired outcome.

Priorty level Urgent. Funds required High therefore higher number of votes required.

That's a whole lot more effective. It gets shit done. Of course there are volunteers/donators etc. But sometimes things needs to get done that would improve dash.
And sometimes (there isn't a volunteer/ quality isn't high enough/ people are losing money to better your coin/ we have to compete with scary corporations outsdie of the BTCtalk lalalaland sphere) sometimes that takes money.

I imagine the execution will be released in stages. So voting could be tested on small projects.

Proposal: Get LoneCrouton a Mohawk.
Cost 10 dash

Everyone votes. It happens. Was it successful yes/no.
How could we improve.

And repeat + improve. Try something bigger. Repeat improve.

Leaner faster better stronger. Getting shit done.

 

[thelonecrouton]

... but if they may not pay and get the same result - they won't pay. Or pay just some symbolical amounts (not real money that DASH need to become "Crypto #1").

'wont' and 'need' are unproven and IMO unfounded assumptions there. Got anything against testing? Can Tungfa's Great Vegas Binge not wait a few weeks?

Proposal: Get LoneCrouton a Mohawk.

Cost 10 dash

I'm up for it. Since Tungfa has bagged Vegas.

 

[Gi01]

Are you really positive that 50% of the nodes will be voting (barrying proposal from whoever has a shitload of coins) AND that they will understand the topic?

Are you really saying that a company-like dash can be multimanaged? I see this as a disaster tbh

(Please notice I like the idea. I think that the real life is different)