Roadmap dates already innacurate?

I agree the communication between Core Team and the community is lacking somewhat lately in the following area's :

* Daniel Diaz apparantely stopped with his current role as Business developer, without the community getting any kind of explanation. This just feeds rumors and assumptions and causes unrest. Some feedback would be nice.
* Progress reports from Core-Team lacking (was followed-up by Kot, i trust that this gets more attention from now on)
* Delayed update v12.2 implementation (was answered by UdjinM6 & codablock, satisfactory in my eyes .. some very important bugs were found just very recentely). I am surprised a little bit though that the translations
are taking this long (the 12.2 update is currently still missing 3 out of 9 translations). I just hope that will not form a delaying factor on itself.
 
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How great it's going to be 5 years from now will become a permanent vaporware pipe dream if you keep failing to handle the NOW situations. You can't keep delyaing because it's not perfect. Yet. Still. Again.

There's always something. You can't let every little thing be an excuse to refactor the whole plan. Again. I know re-doing it later can be a pain, but this isn't the tiny project it was 3 years ago. And no doubt, there were good ideas and good reasons.

But, it still leaves you with the problem that your CURRENT product is a fucking disaster.

Sometimes you simply have to follow through with a plan, any plan, even if you know there's a better way; simply to do something, anything at all.

When it was future-looking and making progress, that was forgivable.

But, now... It's even more future-looking, and the main feature is currently disabled... Mixing change issue has a PLAN to be fixed, but it was never implemented. DASH has basically become litecoin with two kinds of mining, and the "leaders" think that the problem is not that their heads are in the clouds, but that they need to get even higher...

It's like watching democrats slap each other on the back: "The problem is not that we're unforgivably retarded and evil, the problem is that we're still not retarded and evil enough!"

You've got to deal with reality, not talk about how great its going to be someday in the distant future.

A day which will never come if you don't deal with reality right now.

Frankly, Ryan's speeches make me roll my eyes. And, it's not because I dislike him, or think he's a dick, or holding a grudge for how he backstabbed Solar and myself the same way he's doing it to yet another project in of the same sort. It's because I've learned to call BS on heady, bloviating, "our vaporware is the best vaporware" crap ages ago. It might impress those with no experience, but it's a red flag to anyone who's been around the block a few times. If you've run any business for more than 15 minutes, you've heard this crap before and it's a warning sign if ever there was one.
 
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Can someone from the dev team please answer the following questions regarding the fix of InstantSend with yes/no:

1) Has the fix been completed and qa'ed on 30 aug 2017?
2) Is the work on the fix still in progress as of 24 sep 2017?
3) Is the work on the fix still in progress today?

Please be honest with the community.
 
dark_wanderer said:
Can someone from the dev team please answer the following questions regarding the fix of InstantSend with yes/no:

1) Has the fix been completed and qa'ed on 30 aug 2017?
2) Is the work on the fix still in progress as of 24 sep 2017?
3) Is the work on the fix still in progress today?

Please be honest with the community.
Click to expand...

Already answerred here : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...uorum-exploit-method.16492/page-2#post-140905
Lets keep questions about InstantSend and its fixes in that thread.
 
@dark_wanderer The way you ask is like a lawyer questioning someone in court ;) And as we are not in court, you'll not get simple "yes/no" answers, because that's not how it works.

1. As far as I know, the initial fix was done at that time, but not integrated into upstream source.
2. Jain as we would say in German. Yes and no. The fix was done and it was clear that it would work. But just doing the fix by changing a formula is not all. The fix needs to be rolled out securely and properly, and the decision was made to reuse the rollout mechanism of DIP0001 (2mb blocks).
3. See 2. The actual fix is done since a few weeks. But only when DIP0001 is finished, we can say that the work on the instant send fix is also finished, because its tied together.

If you really are interested about all this, please read what UdjinM6 wrote on top and also what he linked to. He already gave a very good and honest answer to these questions.
 
codablock said:
@dark_wanderer The way you ask is like a lawyer questioning someone in court ;) And as we are not in court, you'll not get simple "yes/no" answers, because that's not how it works.
Click to expand...
These questions can be answered with yes/no. Based on the answers, we can figure out the status of the fix thereby eliminating speculations and ambiguities.

codablock said:
1. As far as I know, the initial fix was done at that time, but not integrated into upstream source
Click to expand...
That is, the answer is yes. The fix, a change of the underlying source code, has been completed and committed into a local test branch. The fix in the form of a local binary (of dashd) has been qa'ed as of 30 August. However, the source code of the fix has not yet been integrated back into the main trunk, and has yet to be rolled out in the future along with other changes/features/bugfixes.

codablock said:
2. Jain as we would say in German. Yes and no. The fix was done and it was clear that it would work. But just doing the fix by changing a formula is not all. The fix needs to be rolled out securely and properly, and the decision was made to reuse the rollout mechanism of DIP0001 (2mb blocks).
Click to expand...
That is, the answer is no. The rollout of the fix itself can be done at any point of time, it is not necessary to make any changes to the underlying source code of the fix.

codablock said:
3. See 2. The actual fix is done since a few weeks. But only when DIP0001 is finished, we can say that the work on the instant send fix is also finished, because its tied together.

If you really are interested about all this, please read what UdjinM6 wrote on top and also what he linked to. He already gave a very good and honest answer to these questions.
Click to expand...
That is, the answer is no. The fix has to be rolled out, and the entire system (with all other changes) has to be qa'ed. The fix itself has not to be qa'ed.

Status: the fix has been completed. No need to qa it. All other changes/features/bugfixes have yet to be qa'ed. Rollout date is still unknown/delayed.

Do you agree on that?
 
Stealth923 said:
So, here we are in October with silence from the Core team. The roadmap was only just updated with dates, which I was holding the team to and thought to be accurate...why is communication and holding to a timeline so difficult for the core team? I am not just talking about this instance, I have been around since 2014.....

Anyone have any updates to where each of the deliverable's below are, there was no information from the conference about any of the below?? did I miss some delay communication?? Should I just reset my expectations that this will be delivered sometime 2018? @Ryan Taylor @UdjinM6 @kot

DashPay Wallet Alpha (September 2017)
  • Dash version of CoPay, pre-Evolution functions, on test-net
  • Will lead to full Evolution wallet (not merely a web wallet)
  • DashCore 12.2 Release (September 2017)
  • 2MB block size increase, activation in November 2017
  • 2MB / 5MB block research documentation
  • Launch of a read-only/view-only portal for project documentation which will be open to the entire community (to ensure transparency)

Edit: And before people start with the "I would rather have it done properly and wait longer" message, we are paying the Core team to run a multi billion dollar organisation...if you release dates stick to them or communicate accordingly with your board(MNs)/investors.
Click to expand...

Hi @Stealth923

The dates we give out are estimates because it's pretty hard to know the future of any release cycle especially with rolling out onto a live P2P / Crypto based software.

Right now we have 2 releases that are running late (DashCore 12.2 upgrade to 2MB blocks and Dash CoPay Wallet launch) and most of the reason for this was the InstandSend fix that needed to go in and also the conferences last month (where many of us met and were there for a week). Both are in testing and as soon as DashCore passes QA both releases can go ahead. Unless we know the outcome of the testing in advance we don't know how long it will take to pass which is why we don't give fixed dates.

In terms of the above schedule, the current delay will have a knock-on effect to the schedule but I would rather review next month after getting these releases out before updating the roadmap.

In response to some other comments - 30 devs working on Evolution is not correct, currently we have 5 fulltime, and most of those started in Q1 this year. The other devs are working on pre-Evo releases right now which has delayed us, but after 12.3 release there won't be this separation.

Also about the secrecy on Evo and not showing any demo code yet, the main reason for this is firstly that most of the work over the past year has gone into the 'backend', i.e. design and implementation on DAPI, DashDrive, and DashCore. The frontend (Chuck's team) is currently working on CoPay release, and waiting for that to build in the Evo MVP requirements to create the DAPI reference wallet (aka DashPay Wallet). The other reason is that we are working on patents for the Evo tech and if we publish any designs or code before we get patent pending then you can't get the patent awarded. And BTW the plan with these patents is to assign them either to the public domain or to the MN network (Dash Core Team is moving all IP out so its easier to fire us).

I agree that communication is still poor and i'm sorry about that because it's in my area but working with 20+ devs I tend to prioritize that and not keep up with community news / questions. One of the solutions here is last week we just hired a fulltime PM for UdjinM6's DashCore dev team (Janusz Piasecki) to help with this area and move from Trac to our standard PM setup via JIRA - Janusz is a very experienced PM and this should help communication on work / releases in DashCore a lot, once he has onboarded i'd expect him to be available for questions from the community more regularly.

We also actually have a large amount of things to publish on Evo ranging from around 40 DIPs to a mailing list where we discuss Dash changes to full read-access to all our JIRA projects and obviously the Evo source code and release which should really open us up and make it easier for more devs to get involved. But waiting for either Evo release or patent, whichever comes first.

Thanks,
Andy
 
AndyDark said:
The other reason is that we are working on patents for the Evo tech and if we publish any designs or code before we get patent pending then you can't get the patent awarded. And BTW the plan with these patents is to assign them either to the public domain or to the MN network .
Click to expand...

This is a very important governance decision. You should pay 5 dash, add a proposal in the governance system, and ask the MNOs about it.

Will you? Do you think that 5 dash is too expensive for such a question? If you pretend that 5 dash is too expensive for you, then whats next?

Are you are going to decide yourself (and without asking anyone else) to who the Evo tech patents belong?
 
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akhavr said:
Is there a way a developer and MNO to participate in a 12.2 testnet?
Click to expand...
Is there a way a non developer and non MNO to participate in a 12.2 testnet?
I have promised to code a patch in order to allow the MNOs to vote the numbers, so I should be aware of the recent changes before starting coding it. Yeah, I know I am late in my promise, but no matter how late I am, I always keep my promises.
 
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demo said:
Is there a way a non developer and non MNO to participate in a 12.2 testnet?
I have promised to code a patch in order to allow the MNOs to vote the numbers, so I should be aware of the recent changes before starting coding it. Yeah, I know I am late in my promise, but no matter how late I am, I always keep my promises.
Click to expand...

Everyone can participate on Testnet, including non developers and non MNO's.
If you are really really really anxious you can always download latest testnet binaries here :

Windows : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHW-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-win-dash-dist/
MAC : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHM-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-osx-dash-dist/
Linux : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHL-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-linux-dash-dist/
Raspberry Pi : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHP-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-RPi2-dash-dist/

Just put testnet=1 in your dash.conf and get your tDash from here : https://test.faucet.dash.org
Handy link : https://github.com/dashpay/dash/commits/v0.12.2.x (just compare latest commit to the Testnet wallet version to see if you are using latest commit).

Just be aware that Testnet has not officially opened yet for v12.2 with its own thread on the Dashtalk forum, so people can not make posts yet about possible problems they find.
I suspect the v12.2 Testnet thread with detailed instructions on how to test v12.2 on Testnet will be created soon and officially announced......
 
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GrandMasterDash said:
Can barely wait for the demo Voting by Numbers with Proof of Individuality Coin!
Click to expand...
The proof of individuality requires a wise community to agree with it.
It is not a software implementation.

8828b82c7ac1dc5067b2ad794db326b09d986bcf.jpg
 
AndyDark said:
Hi @Stealth923

The dates we give out are estimates because it's pretty hard to know the future of any release cycle especially with rolling out onto a live P2P / Crypto based software.

Right now we have 2 releases that are running late (DashCore 12.2 upgrade to 2MB blocks and Dash CoPay Wallet launch) and most of the reason for this was the InstandSend fix that needed to go in and also the conferences last month (where many of us met and were there for a week). Both are in testing and as soon as DashCore passes QA both releases can go ahead. Unless we know the outcome of the testing in advance we don't know how long it will take to pass which is why we don't give fixed dates.

In terms of the above schedule, the current delay will have a knock-on effect to the schedule but I would rather review next month after getting these releases out before updating the roadmap.

In response to some other comments - 30 devs working on Evolution is not correct, currently we have 5 fulltime, and most of those started in Q1 this year. The other devs are working on pre-Evo releases right now which has delayed us, but after 12.3 release there won't be this separation.

Also about the secrecy on Evo and not showing any demo code yet, the main reason for this is firstly that most of the work over the past year has gone into the 'backend', i.e. design and implementation on DAPI, DashDrive, and DashCore. The frontend (Chuck's team) is currently working on CoPay release, and waiting for that to build in the Evo MVP requirements to create the DAPI reference wallet (aka DashPay Wallet). The other reason is that we are working on patents for the Evo tech and if we publish any designs or code before we get patent pending then you can't get the patent awarded. And BTW the plan with these patents is to assign them either to the public domain or to the MN network (Dash Core Team is moving all IP out so its easier to fire us).

I agree that communication is still poor and i'm sorry about that because it's in my area but working with 20+ devs I tend to prioritize that and not keep up with community news / questions. One of the solutions here is last week we just hired a fulltime PM for UdjinM6's DashCore dev team (Janusz Piasecki) to help with this area and move from Trac to our standard PM setup via JIRA - Janusz is a very experienced PM and this should help communication on work / releases in DashCore a lot, once he has onboarded i'd expect him to be available for questions from the community more regularly.

We also actually have a large amount of things to publish on Evo ranging from around 40 DIPs to a mailing list where we discuss Dash changes to full read-access to all our JIRA projects and obviously the Evo source code and release which should really open us up and make it easier for more devs to get involved. But waiting for either Evo release or patent, whichever comes first.

Thanks,
Andy
Click to expand...

Hi @AndyDark,

Thank you for the reply and information that you have provided. Basically everything you typed out should have been in an update report that is posted on a monthly basis.

The MN DAO should not need to rummage through Twitter, Dash forums, Dash Central, Dash.org, bitcointalk, Slack, Evan's Medium Blog, GitHub etc for snippets of information to piece whats going on time and time again. It needs to be a PDF formatted document and put on dash.org that gets populated at months end with summarized information on Team Achievements, Challenges, Delays and on-going focus for the next month. i.e. If there was something written for end of September outlining the instantsend exploit delayed the two wallets and how Evolution is going, this thread would not exist as everyone would know whats going on. Instead, month by month we get radio silence and people digging for information from their sources. If you want an example, please see Alt36 project updates which are professionally delivered on time every month that doesn't dig into detailed solution items to ensure no competitive advantage is released, yet gives enough evidence that work is progressing and instills confidence in delivery.

The general sentiment is that the Dash Core team feels as though it can drip feed information whenever they feel like it or have some free time, rather than it being an obligation as we the MN DAO pay for you to put bread on your tables.

We had a great discussion with @Chuck Williams on slack about this the other day and he seems to be reporting this information up the chain but is not being sanitzed for public consumption. If you need a communications coordinator/secretary or a role of that type to get this done, we have the money, submit a proposal and get someone hired to take the burden off the brilliant minds who are working on Evolution, they do not need this distraction.

I hope the Dash Core team can once and for all function like a professional org that properly sets investor expectations, communicates effectively and ensure that trust and transparency is in-place before we really segment ourselves as market leaders.

Thanks.
@kot @Ryan Taylor
 
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hey guys
yes we are behind in reporting / announcement
the recent conferences threw us off a bit
kot is off to another conference in Kiev imo
and after we will get right onto it

please be a bit more patient , this is well noted ;)
 
The Dash community in general, and the Masternode community in particular, both want and need two things with regards to communications from the Dash Core Team.

1. As noted by Mr. Stealth, regular reports of progress, difficulties, breakthroughs, new needs, changes in timelines, etc etc etc. Every month.
2. There needs to be a designated communications person on the team to facilitate communication in both directions. There have been a number of times that we needed information from the Team to make informed decisions on proposals. At the moment, the best we can do is ping Ryan, or somebody on the team that might know something, and hope for the best.

Again, as mentioned by Mr. Stealth, we have the money. Get somebody hired to do this. Grumpy masternodes will be grumpy for only so long.

Tungfa, your plea is duly and respectfully noted.

Name a date by which we may expect a proposal for a Communications Officer. I will accept any reasonable deadline.

I am willing to be patient. I am willing to wait longer. But for how long? IF Core Team will set a deadline for when and describe how this will be improved, that would go a long way towards improving morale and de-escalating the situation. I am willing to accept any reasonable deadline.

Name a deadline and a plan. Problem solved.
 
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qwizzie said:
Everyone can participate on Testnet, including non developers and non MNO's.
If you are really really really anxious you can always download latest testnet binaries here :

Windows : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHW-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-win-dash-dist/
MAC : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHM-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-osx-dash-dist/
Linux : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHL-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-linux-dash-dist/
Raspberry Pi : https://bamboo.dash.org/browse/DASHP-DEV/latestSuccessful/artifact/JOB1/gitian-RPi2-dash-dist/

Just put testnet=1 in your dash.conf and get your tDash from here : https://test.faucet.dash.org
Handy link : https://github.com/dashpay/dash/commits/v0.12.2.x (just compare latest commit to the Testnet wallet version to see if you are using latest commit).

Just be aware that Testnet has not officially opened yet for v12.2 with its own thread on the Dashtalk forum, so people can not make posts yet about possible problems they find.
I suspect the v12.2 Testnet thread with detailed instructions on how to test v12.2 on Testnet will be created soon and officially announced......
Click to expand...

We were trying to make sure everything is running properly before announcing it but looks like some people were too impatient. ;)
Someone is running mns on testnet which do not act as they should. There is a very low number of votes in the winners list right now and I'm not 100% if this is the reason why or is there another issue. If you are the one running a bunch of masternodes on 50.254.*.* pls make sure you removed mncache.dat when you launched them for the first time on new testnet (if not - do this now pls) and your mns are running on latest binaries.

EDIT: also pls make sure that your block height/hash matches test explorer
 
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UdjinM6 said:
Someone is running mns on testnet which do not act as they should. There is a very low number of votes in the winners list right now and I'm not 100% if this is the reason why or is there another issue.
Click to expand...
Is this is yet another sentinel bug? What kind of votes are you talking about?

Or maybe, is this the network randomness problem we used to talk about? Obvioulsy, in the testnet the network randomness is not as random as it is in the production net, so someone may gets profit on it in order to confuse you (I deserve yet another bugcrowd tip if you find out that someone is playing this game on you).
 
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Stealth923 said:
October coming to a close. Let's hope we get
1) November portfolio update
2) Roadmap update
3) Update with the bitcart debarcle.
4) @thedesertlynx has his questions answered by the core team.

All of this micro management could have been so easily avoided. @kot
Click to expand...


1.
portfolio ?
2.
roadmap will be updated when Dip’s are done
3.
working on it imo
4.
he did not ask us any questions reg that bitcart “conspiracy”
 
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