Good point. I wonder what the line will be, as some formality will be necessary.
Proposal: Hiring of Top-level Dash Chief Marketing Officer (CMO)
- Thread starter dashdisciple
- Start date
Good point. I wonder what the line will be, as some formality will be necessary.
Vedran Yoweri
Active member
This is a bad idea.
This action would be forcing an outsider onto the core team, in fact taking over communications. Which is a perfect way to create lots of trubble and inflict a lot of damage to dash.
A professional would never barge in like that. He or she would do more damage than good, no matter who they are.
The fact is the marketing and communications roles are a core part of core. I would never accept building stuff and letting others whom i do not know and trust run a freakshow around it. I guess the same goes for core.
So you better be prepaired to unhire core and destroy dash.
This is not the first social hacking attempt whe've had to deflect.
For new MNO this might all be a bit of a surprise but i'm a bit disappointed in the old guard. Our socialy driven budget system is a big fat weak spot. Y'all should know better.
(typo)
This action would be forcing an outsider onto the core team, in fact taking over communications. Which is a perfect way to create lots of trubble and inflict a lot of damage to dash.
A professional would never barge in like that. He or she would do more damage than good, no matter who they are.
The fact is the marketing and communications roles are a core part of core. I would never accept building stuff and letting others whom i do not know and trust run a freakshow around it. I guess the same goes for core.
So you better be prepaired to unhire core and destroy dash.
This is not the first social hacking attempt whe've had to deflect.
For new MNO this might all be a bit of a surprise but i'm a bit disappointed in the old guard. Our socialy driven budget system is a big fat weak spot. Y'all should know better.
(typo)
abob54
Member
When a company adds talent to their team [or investors to their company], they don't usually refer to them as "outsiders". Each new person who buys a masternode is not an attacker, they're an investor who has an equal interest in increasing the value of that investment, and made that investment because they value the product.
Companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook, and many others choose their base of operations in a location where they can attract top-level talent. You can't actually believe that adding an independent CMO hired directly by the MNOs is an attack, or do you? Does anyone else feel this way?
Core is doing great at R&D and nobody is talking about diminishing their role.
I cannot understand for the life of me why you and @tungfa have chosen to take this aggressive tone and position when all we've done is present an option that could potentially benefit the entire community. Can someone please explain this. Please explain it, perhaps someone in the "old guard" who shares this view.
Would it help that we set the minimum requirements for hiring such a person? For a start, we could require they own at least one masternode
Acedian
Active member
There is a view that we are doubling up unnecessary on curtain roles.
The causes of this I would guess are:
The current people taking on the designated roles aren't doing a good enough job. Simply incompetent to a degree.
Or
There isn't a easy to navigate website where everyone can see what is being done. Trolling through 12 different sites and trying to find out who is doing what and if they are doing a good job.
I think we need a website dedicated to proposal owners and anyone paid directly from the treasury. Simple, standard categories such as Marketing, Core Development, Business Relations, etc.
So if I want to know what is going on with Marketing for instance, I hit the menu drop-down and I get sub categories to choose from.
When I have selected this I should be presented with the information about the proposal covering that role and a blog from the leader/manager of that proposal. They should be forced to give updates at times agreed in the proposal!
No public forums, comments or unrelated crap. To the point. The ownership of a proposal can be proven by a signed message from the proposer's Dash address.
The causes of this I would guess are:
The current people taking on the designated roles aren't doing a good enough job. Simply incompetent to a degree.
Or
There isn't a easy to navigate website where everyone can see what is being done. Trolling through 12 different sites and trying to find out who is doing what and if they are doing a good job.
I think we need a website dedicated to proposal owners and anyone paid directly from the treasury. Simple, standard categories such as Marketing, Core Development, Business Relations, etc.
So if I want to know what is going on with Marketing for instance, I hit the menu drop-down and I get sub categories to choose from.
When I have selected this I should be presented with the information about the proposal covering that role and a blog from the leader/manager of that proposal. They should be forced to give updates at times agreed in the proposal!
No public forums, comments or unrelated crap. To the point. The ownership of a proposal can be proven by a signed message from the proposer's Dash address.
Forcing seems a bit harsh, but I see your point. Who currently oversees and reports on the progress for the "Core Team"? Same for the proposals, who oversees those? What about, instead of a CMO, we hired a team to handle communications between both the core team, proposals, and the MN's. This way we know what's working and what's not. We also have a way to help fix issues as they are presented, and what to vote for in the future.
TroyDASH
Well-known member
Disappointed in the old guard? New masternode owners have spent a hell of a lot more out of their own hard earned capital than old masternode owners did for the same amount of voting influence. I have every reason to believe that new masternode owners on average are more likely to know how to make good business decisions than old ones.
We need to get past the mentality that hiring different teams means they necessarily have to be in opposition. We are a DAO, and we should start acting more like one. Not everybody is going to agree with the decisions that Amanda B Johnson makes. Not everyone is going to agree with the decisions that DashForce makes. It doesn't mean the different entities hired by the DAO can't help each other towards a shared goal.
The core team does a great job for us. In fact, our developers may very well be the best in the business, or among the best, at developing cutting edge blockchain solutions. There are plenty of reasons to believe that. But are we also going to claim that the Dash core team is the best in the business at marketing? Are they also the best in the business at project management? Are they also best in the business at business development and networking? Or investor relations and communication? If we insist that the Dash Core Team is the best at everything then we are stuck in an echo chamber. Doing a satisfactory or even a good job in these areas is not a good reason to fail to take advantage of opportunities to improve what we have.
Claiming that we might as well be prepared to unhire core and destroy dash if we hire a CMO is ludicrous.
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TroyDASH
Well-known member
IMHO, it is because the Dash community has had really bad experiences with "trolls" and others who have inhibited constructive behavior, to the point where it might be automatically assumed that you are up to no good, especially since you are anonymous. Trust is a really big issue here and you will need to be understanding of that landscape you are walking in
that is all in place
Evolution is one thing
but for now we have enough to do with Dash D and all other aspects of Dash
(Andy is running 3 teams)
there is no "aggressive" tone here - u must have misunderstood that !
we are trying to figure out what is going on
no offence but u have to understand how this "can " look from the outside
- somebody rushing in - starting new pages / big idea
- that newcomer has zero track record in community
- that newcomer is totally anonymous (nobody knows where he is coming from and what agenda he is running)
- newcomer trying to divert Governance from (trusted) dashcentral to their own page
- newcomer undermining community attempts to evaluate proposals with his own system (which until now is still unknown to me ? 1 person evaluates ? 1 opinion ? are u doing the evaluations yourself ? ....)
tbh
we have seen it all before - good and bad
and so (as of the 'bad') we have to be cautious with these kind of attempts as proposal evaluations were supposed to make it easier for MNO's, and now we have multiple pages with different opinions 'trying' to do the same thing ?
a newcomer 'undermining' a community effort never looks pretty in public - and obviously community (and their track record ) is trusted !
newcomers and their ideas are always welcome
but there is a way to do this 'right' as in any community you enter new and fresh
normally people bail;d up relations, engage , support before they start their own proposals or ideas .... rushing in and telling everybody what they are doing ' wrong ' and what you can do 'better' with no track record (or anything to back that up) will only raise eyebrows
(that is exactly where we are)
Leonidas
Active member
I agree with @tungfa .
I really like your ideas @dashdisciple. As an enthusiast, I would like to support you. But you cannot have it both ways. Being anonymous and having no reputation.
You strongly support anonimty from what I read on your website while many have asked you to reveal your identity regarding your official proposals.
Make no mistake, everybody here supports anonimity. Big contributors of Dash were anonymous during a long time and quite a few still are. But we do trust them because we know them, they have tracks. You don't...
That's why so many people ask to reveal your identity : that would be a fast track to gain trust from the community. If you don't want, I guess it will be the other way, spend some months here making contributions. But again, can't have it both ways.
I really like your ideas @dashdisciple. As an enthusiast, I would like to support you. But you cannot have it both ways. Being anonymous and having no reputation.
You strongly support anonimty from what I read on your website while many have asked you to reveal your identity regarding your official proposals.
Make no mistake, everybody here supports anonimity. Big contributors of Dash were anonymous during a long time and quite a few still are. But we do trust them because we know them, they have tracks. You don't...
That's why so many people ask to reveal your identity : that would be a fast track to gain trust from the community. If you don't want, I guess it will be the other way, spend some months here making contributions. But again, can't have it both ways.
dashdisciple
Active member
Thanks very much for that explanation, Leonidas. I understand it, and I approve of the community's caution. I hadn't realized that the community had suffered betrayals in the past, but that's been made clear to me by several old timers, now. I appreciate that.
I'm in a bit of a pickle, because I am the type of person who likes to move quickly on good ideas, and I also do have a very strong belief in the importance of privacy and anonymity. I'll continue to build relationships slowly, but I won't have time to build the trust required to make big, coefficient level changes in Dash.
I anticipated that trust would be a problem, so for that reason, I attempted to make my entrance as trustless as possible. We never asked for any money outside of reimbursements, we put our money/resources upfront first, and the ideas we put forth attempted to be "open source" in that anybody could take them and run with them.
I don't want to damage the CMO/professional marketing proposal by interfering with it myself. Would it set any MNOs at ease if abob54 and I completely removed ourselves from the CMO recruitment process? Aside from the proposal fees already paid, and the basic marketing outline I built - our involvement in this would end completely, so that people with more trust could be in charge of recruitment and the MNOs would have the final vote.
Would this help? It's the ideas that we feel are important, not our involvement in it. We're happy to step aside immediately and let more trusted members coordinate the recruitment process. Dash's success is all we care about.
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Thing is
the question comes down to transparency
https://www.dashtreasury.org
- how do u evaluate ? is there a team ? or u 2 guys make up your own mind /opinion ?
- budget submission is legitimate ? Is that auditable ? why do u put your own system up there and do NOT use the public-proven and confirmed Proposal Generator ?
..... (need another coffee and probably have more questions after)
this should be sorted out in public 1st i believe before moving further (reputation and all ; )
tbh
https://www.dashtreasury.org/article-zoomoney.html
press like this from a Dash Budget/proposal page brings the totally wrong impression to "us"
this looks like a lame PnD hype article - use the 1 Mill to double that market cap now - and we are all rich !?!
is that what it comes down to for u guys ?
Remember , we are doing very well here since years, slow and steady rise is the plan !
creating a neutral , independent , autonomous currency is harder than it seems - read satochi white paper again - we are on a very good track there - but we do NOT need this kind of hype reg Marketcap (there are more important things than that !!!)
a dashtreasury page should be neutral (check Dashcentral) and NOT take sides or suggest opinions in their outlets - totally counterproductive / and sure questions the integrity of the page owners
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amanda_b_johnson
Well-known member
I began feeling stress about Dash's future about two months ago.
I couldn't figure out exactly why, but it had to do with two seemingly conflicting facts: 1) our market capitalization was going up, up, up, but 2) we were slipping in investment ranking when compared to our competitors. Down, down, down. From 3rd to 7th.
Now, it goes without saying that our competitors have inferior technology, so this slip never should have happened. But it did. So if networks with inferior technology are earning investment faster than we are, what are they doing that we're not?
There's no magic at play (I think), so there has to be a reason.
Is It Me?
I wondered if I personally must be doing something wrong. So I paid $3000 out-of-pocket to produce a pilot episode to make my weekly show look more network-y. (You guys didn't end up liking it, but hey -- neither did I.) Then I changed its name to "Weekly Wednesday Show" so that its content could be more flexible, and I could say "Dash -- Digital Cash" along with it to add to branding. I even changed my content type from news reports to these insane social media campaigns.
This is all well and good, but these changes didn't scratch-the-itch, so to speak. My stress about our future has still not gone away. That's a problem.
A Moment of Clarity
Then two nights ago, I saw a proposal about hiring a Chief Marketing Officer. ZING! I realized in that moment why I've been so stressed all the time: what Dash needs right now has nothing to do with me (thank god!), and everything to do with a full-scale marketing arm run by someone with experience. Because that is what our competitors are doing that we're not doing. They have businesses and VC firms flocking around them, and those businesses and VC firms are marketing the hell out of them. And they're doing a good job at it, too. Much better than we are.
Hence, I fully support the current proposal to recruit and hire a CMO.
If we do not, our superior technology will probably be copied by a competitor who then markets themselves much better than we do. If that happens, we will likely lose our first-mover advantage and lose this currency competition.
Still skeptical?
Let us consider the best and worst case scenarios of hiring a CMO:
Best case scenario: We attract new investment, which attracts new media coverage, which attracts even more new investment, which attracts even more media coverage. Which all results in a BIGGER BUDGET for us to launch Evolution with when the time comes. Dash goes to #1.
Worst case scenario: The CMO's efforts don't bring us new investment, and so after a few months, we have to fire him. We spend a chunk of Dash learning our lesson, we feel a little bad about it, and then we move on.
That is a lot of potential upside, with insignificant potential downside. We'd be mad not to try this.
Let Us Be Wise
I encourage you to vote 'yes' on the Dash DAO hiring a CMO. If you have any questions for me personally, I'm happy to answer them.
I couldn't figure out exactly why, but it had to do with two seemingly conflicting facts: 1) our market capitalization was going up, up, up, but 2) we were slipping in investment ranking when compared to our competitors. Down, down, down. From 3rd to 7th.
Now, it goes without saying that our competitors have inferior technology, so this slip never should have happened. But it did. So if networks with inferior technology are earning investment faster than we are, what are they doing that we're not?
There's no magic at play (I think), so there has to be a reason.
Is It Me?
I wondered if I personally must be doing something wrong. So I paid $3000 out-of-pocket to produce a pilot episode to make my weekly show look more network-y. (You guys didn't end up liking it, but hey -- neither did I.) Then I changed its name to "Weekly Wednesday Show" so that its content could be more flexible, and I could say "Dash -- Digital Cash" along with it to add to branding. I even changed my content type from news reports to these insane social media campaigns.
This is all well and good, but these changes didn't scratch-the-itch, so to speak. My stress about our future has still not gone away. That's a problem.
A Moment of Clarity
Then two nights ago, I saw a proposal about hiring a Chief Marketing Officer. ZING! I realized in that moment why I've been so stressed all the time: what Dash needs right now has nothing to do with me (thank god!), and everything to do with a full-scale marketing arm run by someone with experience. Because that is what our competitors are doing that we're not doing. They have businesses and VC firms flocking around them, and those businesses and VC firms are marketing the hell out of them. And they're doing a good job at it, too. Much better than we are.
Hence, I fully support the current proposal to recruit and hire a CMO.
If we do not, our superior technology will probably be copied by a competitor who then markets themselves much better than we do. If that happens, we will likely lose our first-mover advantage and lose this currency competition.
Still skeptical?
Let us consider the best and worst case scenarios of hiring a CMO:
Best case scenario: We attract new investment, which attracts new media coverage, which attracts even more new investment, which attracts even more media coverage. Which all results in a BIGGER BUDGET for us to launch Evolution with when the time comes. Dash goes to #1.
Worst case scenario: The CMO's efforts don't bring us new investment, and so after a few months, we have to fire him. We spend a chunk of Dash learning our lesson, we feel a little bad about it, and then we move on.
That is a lot of potential upside, with insignificant potential downside. We'd be mad not to try this.
Let Us Be Wise
I encourage you to vote 'yes' on the Dash DAO hiring a CMO. If you have any questions for me personally, I'm happy to answer them.
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amanda_b_johnson
Well-known member
@tungfa and @Leonidas and others: this proposal has literally nothing to do with who runs dashtreasury.org and everything to do with whether or not the Dash DAO should hire a CMO.
It doesn't matter who proposed it -- it's a governance question! With governance questions, all that matters is whether or not it's a good idea.
Stay on-topic, please.
It doesn't matter who proposed it -- it's a governance question! With governance questions, all that matters is whether or not it's a good idea.
Stay on-topic, please.
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I thought dash had a HR team now...
Vedran Yoweri
Active member
It does. You're not in the slack amanda.
That's a very stupid thing to say.
Don't think you fully appreciate what's happening in the crypto development world, either evolution or our competitors work. If you are doing communications that's a problem.
Try this.
85% of our potential investors think dash does marketing and trolling. period.
Dash's competition is the same as everyone else's competition.. that is to say, if you look at all the top cryptos, they all have their own unique selling point. Coin Market Cap should be renamed to Coin / Token Supermarket. That is to say, it's not so much about dash slipping down the chart, but more to the point that dash has been growing and will continue to do so, so long as it differentiates from others and stays relevant. Consider each coin / token like a programming language or operating system; https://steemit.com/crypto/@supernimity/the-best-crypto-analogy
I have been swayed by the arguments made for a CFO. On balance, I think Amanda is correct to say we have little to lose by trying. My only caveat being, I really think the CFO should also be an MNO (and checkable each month) to ensure they have skin in the game.
I have been swayed by the arguments made for a CFO. On balance, I think Amanda is correct to say we have little to lose by trying. My only caveat being, I really think the CFO should also be an MNO (and checkable each month) to ensure they have skin in the game.
JGCMiner
Active member
The problem may just be that English is not your first language, but this post is a bit much. There is no reason imply that someone who has done so much for our network in @amanda_b_johnson is stupid. You may disagree with her, but let's not start flinging around ad homiems. That's how communities begin to break up.
To her point, @dashdisciple just posted this above.
If they are willing to step aside and let other trusted community members, say Core, handle things then I don't see why people are still focusing so much on @dashdisciple and his team. I was skeptical before this statement, but given this -- as Amanda said, it really does just become a governance question... Should we hire a CMO or not?
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