[prepoposal] Dash Debit Card ready by Mid-April

[paragon]

I think most of us are in favor of a debit card that allows us to store Dash in it and that doesn't charge any fees on top of the Poloniex exchange rate to load or spend the Dash. This is a pretty big plus as most debit cards can't store Dash (but rather only fiat) and even if they do, they charge a fee to convert or spend the Dash.

I'm in favor of this as long as Ryan Taylor has spoken to you Julian and approves, and as long as Ryan Taylor is used as an escrow. We would all appreciate hearing Ryan's input as well as Charlie Shrem's. I'd appreciate seeing a numbered list of the exact advantages your card has over Charlie's Payza card and the advantages Charlie's card has over yours.

Also Julian, when you convert the Dash to local fiat, what currencies will incur no conversion fees besides USD purchases? It seems to me if someone is trying to spend in a currency that isn't very popular that you would assuredly have an expense converting dash to btc or usd and then btc or usd to a local currency no?

Regarding obtaining one of your cards Julian, your regulator allows you to send your card to any country without any KYC requirements upfront? Having fewer regulatory hurdles seems like a significant advantage over other debit cards. Could you explain the exact differences in your KYC practices compared to other cryptocurrency debit card providers Julian?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

I think most of us are in favor of a debit card that allows us to store Dash in it and that doesn't charge any fees on top of the Poloniex exchange rate to load or spend the Dash. This is a pretty big plus as most debit cards can't store Dash (but rather only fiat) and even if they do, they charge a fee to convert or spend the Dash.

We agree.

We would all appreciate hearing Ryan's input as well as Charlie Shrem's. I'd appreciate seeing a numbered list of the exact advantages your card has over Charlie's Payza card and the advantages Charlie's card has over yours.

@paragon, thanx for all your great questions.

I am already in e-mail talk with Ryan and also his key developer, who are interested and looking into what we are offering.

As far as I understand Charlie Shrem's card, this is where we are very different:

1. We have lower fees to get the card than Charlie's system.
2. We take care of the card ourselves - we do NOT rely on a 3rd party provider like Payza who can change the conditions at any time or stop the support and Charlie cannot do anything about it. Should we change anything, you can come to us and point the finger at us. We are 100% in charge.
3. We have no transaction fees on our side whenever you use the card. Charlie's card has.
4. We have everything in crypto, so you do not have to do any KYC unless you want to spend more than 3K US per month or more than 1K per transaction. With Charlie's card you will have to do KYC as they use fiat.
5. You can use our card without a bank account or existing credit card. As long as you have access to crypto, you can use our card. You will have to fund their card with fiat, so you need to have access to credit cards or bank accounts to my understanding.

Atm. I do not see any downside of our system, only upsides (please let me know, maybe I misread his proposal) and that is only because we are developing everything in-house.

Also Julian, when you convert the Dash to local fiat, what currencies will incur no conversion fees besides USD purchases? It seems to me if someone is trying to spend in a currency that isn't very popular that you would assuredly have an expense converting dash to btc or usd and then btc or usd to a local currency no?

You should not have any major fee on that, because the way it works is this: You see a fiat price in your currency (whatever it is!). The card system will convert that into USD (there might be a small fee on their side which ALWAYS exists with any credit card and is beyond our control since this is with every card the same) and will charge the card issuer that price, minus a % kickback (which is our profit) - in this case us. We then take your crypto, convert it at the best rate possible and settle the payment.

That is why we can keep the actual fees as close to zero as the entire system lets us. Should you find a cheaper way to do it, please let us know and we are happy to look into it.

Regarding obtaining one of your cards Julian, your regulator allows you to send your card to any country without any KYC requirements upfront? Having fewer regulatory hurdles seems like a significant advantage over other debit cards. Could you explain the exact differences in your KYC practices compared to other cryptocurrency debit card providers Julian?

Correct, that is why we decided to stay in crypto only. We can outsource the KYC to the place where you get your crypto from.

If you want to see the experience, download our app: www.tenx.tech and try it out with Bitcoin and see for yourself. Everything I describe here is the exact process.

Let me know if you have further questions, I am happy to answer them.

PS.:
We have a white paper out on our vision for an entire decentralised payment system called COMIT: www.comit.network
We do regular videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrh49JX-9UQJbee6e4EGhog
Twitter is really active: www.twitter.com/TenXwallet
and Facebook of course: www.facebook.com/TenXwallet

 

[paragon]

I'm not 100% sure if Charlie's card stores funds in Fiat only. Maybe someone could verify that.

Let's say, for example, I lived in Argentina and was using the Argentine Peso, if I used your debit card that had Dash on it, are you saying that I would basically get almost an exact XE conversion rate from dollars to Argentine pesos after the Dash was converted to dollars at the Poloniex exchange rate?

Also, can you explain how your KYC practices would work, how invasive of privacy they are, and what they would entail if one were to spend more than 3000USD a month, or 1000USD in a day? Which parties exactly would be receiving the KYC data?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

I'm not 100% sure if Charlie's card stores funds in Fiat only. Maybe someone could verify that.

Let's say, for example, I lived in Argentina and was using the Argentine Peso, if I used your debit card that had Dash on it, are you saying that I would basically get almost an exact XE conversion rate from dollars to Argentine pesos after the Dash was converted to dollars at the Poloniex exchange rate?

Correct @paragon, it should be very close.

Also, can you explain how your KYC practices would work, how invasive of privacy they are, and what they would entail if one were to spend more than 3000USD a month, or 1000USD in a day? Which parties exactly would be receiving the KYC data?

Our KYC is the same as any exchange does - nothing special:
Passport & Address Proof - which we then check against a database required for AML and terroris prevention.

 

[Balych]

So, card type is multicurrency? I can pay on amazon.co.jp and it will charged with JPY (BTC->JPY)?
Or card is USD for example, and will charge at MasterCard USD->JPY rate (BTC->USD->JPY)?

And no ATM withdrawal atm? Any ETA and possible fees/restrictions?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

So, card type is multicurrency? I can pay on amazon.co.jp and it will charged with JPY (BTC->JPY)?
Or card is USD for example, and will charge at MasterCard USD->JPY rate (BTC->USD->JPY)?

And no ATM withdrawal atm? Any ETA and possible fees/restrictions?

It will do BTC->USD->JPY
atm no ATM withdrawal, but we are working on the API right now. Since we do everything in-house we have to do it ourselves. There will be a small withdrawal % fee, but we haven't made the final decision on it yet. It will not be too long though when it is ready.

 

[grex]

Your facts are pretty accurate, where you are off is our business model. Our strategy is NOT to become a debit card provider, but rather to decentralise everything. We wrote a white paper on that, that you can find here (and I am sure we will hear your valuable feedback on) www.comit.network

So, when you stated your 2 options you were not taking that into consideration that right now, the centralised platform is only the stepping stone to something larger with lots more options of price discovery and so on.

If you mistrust TenX as a wallet, only put on the funds you want to spend straight away and issue solved. Maybe there will come the time, that you realise that your preconceived assumptions about us were wrong and that we are actually a legit group working on a legit problem.

I've looked into your white paper, which is basically about a lightning network for cross chain payments.
Am I right in assuming that in the future the card payments will be routed through this network?

This would clarify why you are running this card project nearly as a nonprofit for now and can keep the fees low for users, because your network will benefit from the traffic and later on your company sees profits from the nt...would be an interesting concept.

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

I've looked into your white paper, which is basically about a lightning network for cross chain payments.
Am I right in assuming that in the future the card payments will be routed through this network?

This would clarify why you are running this card project nearly as a nonprofit for now and can keep the fees low for users, because your network will benefit from the traffic and later on your company sees profits from the nt...would be an interesting concept.

Correct @grex . Thanx for the nice feedback.

 

[hlooman]

Just tested the virtual card with an online $CAD transaction and it sailed through without any problems.
The system charged BTC virtually at a very reasonable rate (close to the Coindesk CAD rate) with no further currency exchange fees.
I'm liking this! Now that BTC is up a little today, the balance on my card has gone up too. It stays crypto until the moment you spend. Good stuff.
It'd be nice to see an option where we can choose to spend BTC or DASH from our balances from the app the way wallets usually work to completely stay away from any fiat conversion when at a merchant that accepts crypto. You got my vote.

 

[AjM]

How are account funds (BTC and Dash) protected?
Remember Mintpal, Mtgox etc ?

 

[GrandMasterDash]

@Dr. Julian Hosp And I'm still waiting for the answer to my question, the third time I'm asking you. Why you didn't sell one of your masternodes when it was $100K instead of asking for $30K here? You like to keep your own money and take others?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

@Dr. Julian Hosp And I'm still waiting for the answer to my question, the third time I'm asking you. Why you didn't sell one of your masternodes when it was $100K instead of asking for $30K here? You like to keep your own money and take others?

We run these nodes, but it is not our money. That is why we cannot sell them.

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

How are account funds (BTC and Dash) protected?
Remember Mintpal, Mtgox etc ?

We use several security stages:
multi stage hot and cold wallet setup with multi sig

I know many of the companies are using that however we have a special security expert on for exactly that. Our CEO actually also has a specialty in that field.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

We run these nodes, but it is not our money. That is why we cannot sell them.

Oh, it's yours but not yours?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

Just tested the virtual card with an online $CAD transaction and it sailed through without any problems.
The system charged BTC virtually at a very reasonable rate (close to the Coindesk CAD rate) with no further currency exchange fees.
I'm liking this! Now that BTC is up a little today, the balance on my card has gone up too. It stays crypto until the moment you spend. Good stuff.
It'd be nice to see an option where we can choose to spend BTC or DASH from our balances from the app the way wallets usually work to completely stay away from any fiat conversion when at a merchant that accepts crypto. You got my vote.

Thanx @hlooman - appreciate the great feedback!

 

[GrandMasterDash]

We run these nodes, but it is not our money. That is why we cannot sell them.

You mean to say, the MNO can sell their nodes tomorrow and we'd all be without your service?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

Oh, it's yours but not yours?

You mean to say, the MNO can sell their nodes tomorrow and we'd all be without your service?

In order to correct your wrong understanding:
In order to offer the debit card to DASH, no MNO would be needed from our side. We have been running them for quite some time nevertheless, but it has literally NOTHING to do with the debit card offering DASH. Therefore, since this thread is about our proposal of a debit card, I will focus on answering questions on that.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Look, all you are trying is to attack either me personally or the business, so I will neither reply or comment any of such attacks as they are just feeding your trollish behaviour.

In order to correct your wrong understanding of MNsO:
In order to offer the debit card to DASH, no MNO is needed. We have been running them for quite some time, but it has literally NOTHING to do with the debit card offering DASH.

Troll behaviour to question the resources you said you had? Or evasive that I had to ask you three times?

Let me try to make this simple for you. On page two of this thread you:

"That we can handle the Dash integration? We've had a few Dash Masternodes live for quite some time already. The actual integration into our app is similar to Bitcoin, as Dash is a fork. So the RPC is the same."​

But now you say you don't actually own the MNs. If you own the private keys then you own the masternodes. If you don't own the private keys, then the person who does can sell them any time and leave you and your customers without a service. Which is it?

 

[Dr. Julian Hosp]

Troll behaviour to question the resources you said you had? Or evasive that I had to ask you three times?

Let me try to make this simple for you. On page two of this thread you:

"That we can handle the Dash integration? We've had a few Dash Masternodes live for quite some time already. The actual integration into our app is similar to Bitcoin, as Dash is a fork. So the RPC is the same."​

But now you say you don't actually own the MNs. If you own the private keys then you own the masternodes. If you don't own the private keys, then the person who does can sell them any time and leave you and your customers without a service. Which is it?

sorry @GrandMasterDash - this has literally nothing to do with the topic. So you can keep commenting your BS all day to try to disrupt our proposal. Instead, ask a serious question about our debit card and provide value to others.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

sorry @GrandMasterDash - this has literally nothing to do with the topic. So you can keep commenting your BS all day to try to disrupt our proposal. Instead, ask a serious question about our debit card and provide value to others.

There you go people, his masternodes are nothing to do with this, apparently. You don't seem to understand that your evasiveness is fuelling suspicion.