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Pre-Proposal: Would you like to be able to vote with number?

Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?

  • Total voters
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Voting has a depth of subject beyond you, me and probably most people here reading this. More so, it's not always possible to map real world solutions to the virtual world... for one thing, in the real world we have unique identifiable people... because you might say, with some validity, that's it's not the number of MNs that's important, but the unique people behind them. And so we end up here with what we have, a situation that isn't perfect but if it really doesn't satisfy your needs, you can vote with your wallet by choosing a different token / coin.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
for one thing, in the real world we have unique identifiable people... because you might say, with some validity, that's it's not the number of MNs that's important, but the unique people behind them.
Click to expand...

Of course I agree with this. I would like to know how may masternodes someone has. I dont care to know his real name, he may reveal to us only a nickname in order to protect his anonymity. But the unique people behind is what really matters. Dash community should spot the unique people behind and assign to them nicknames or just numerical ids (in case they desire to hide their identity). Otherwise someone may claim that the whole dash community is a sybil attack. Thats why the web of trust or any other method capable to indentify unique people (and at the same time protect their anonymity) is needed urgently.
 
Why not have these options? This will appease the "just want to invest and don't care" to the "I want someone else to make decisions for me".

Yes
Abstain (so if you change your mind you can abstain again, it can also used be used to show participation vs not voting)
No
Delegate (copy the vote of another masternode)

So the investors that want this system to act like buying a stock.with a board of directors controlling a centralized company can Delegate out their votes to the "smart managers" that know so much about proposals that they can make a good choice. Maybe these managers provide subvoting proposals to elect "smart managers" that can be mailed to everyone with a check box and return envelope too. (Yeah, this sounds weird huh? I think there are investors that want this.)

These same investors can also abstain if they don't want to mess with voting or want other independent voters to make decisions.
 
Solarminer said:
Why not have these options? .
Click to expand...

This is what I also wonder.
Why not have these options? Why having only yes/no vote in the budget?
Why not having number voting or ranking voting and of course different available methods that extract the result for us to choose?
Why not having delegation, or abstain, or any other thing someone may think?

And especially why people when asked if they desire such options to be coded, in order to give them the freedom to vote more accurately, they answer definitevely a big NO. Their behavior is a real mystery to me.

Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?
  1. *yes 2 vote(s) 7.4%
  2. no 22 vote(s) 81.5%
  3. other 3 vote(s) 11.1%

The people who voted in this poll are not rational and they desire directed voting rather than free voting.
And if we consider them a representative sample, this means that the dash community is also not rational and it is controlled and directed. If people are controlled and directed, there is no big diffetence between this situation and a sybil attack.

Nothing can evolve if irrational and controlled people are involved.
 
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What if there was a system that gave higher payouts to people that proved they had control over more MNs, but equally gave them less weight in voting? That way people would have a clear decision of what was more important; more voting power vs more income
 
demo said:
I am asking this because I am planning to put an example vote, in order for people to be able to select the desired method that is going to be used for extracting results from a number voting.
Click to expand...

I am so glad that someone else put the example vote instead of me. I am so glad that I have partners in my assigned task of advertising number voting, and that those partners are the new dash generation!

You can read here a detailed practical explanation on how to select the desired method that is going to be used for extracting results from a number voting.
 
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I like to color by numbers.

I think you should make a proposal that requires MNOs to wear certain colored contact lenses based on a hash of their previous votes against a 24bit color pallet after it's been compressed by jpeg at 1% quality. I'm not going to define the other parameters so that there's really no way to come up with an answer, a color, or a reason to do this.
 
camosoul said:
I like to color by numbers.

I think you should make a proposal that requires MNOs to wear certain colored contact lenses based on a hash of their previous votes against a 24bit color pallet after it's been compressed by jpeg at 1% quality. I'm not going to define the other parameters so that there's really no way to come up with an answer, a color, or a reason to do this.
Click to expand...

Yes of course. The number voting was initially called (and created as) color voting. This is how they used to (and they still) vote in (and for) the universe, they use colors. And someone who owns all the votes (all the colors) he is (and/or he appears as) the light. How did you knew that?
 
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<vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?
  1. yes 3 vote(s) 10.7%
  2. no 22 vote(s) 78.6%
  3. other 3 vote(s) 10.7%
</vote history>

The desired 3rd vote finnaly arrived. So I have to start coding. I assume that in order to compile dash from source the below is the correct procedure.

Compile Dash on Ubuntu 14.04

Code: 
Assuming the username of the Ubuntu user is "ubuntu".

Preparation
-----------

```
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

sudo apt-get install build-essential libtool autotools-dev autoconf pkg-config libssl-dev libevent-dev
sudo apt-get install libboost-all-dev
sudo apt-get install libqt5gui5 libqt5core5 libqt5dbus5 qttools5-dev qttools5-dev-tools libprotobuf-dev protobuf-compiler
sudo apt-get install libqrencode-dev
sudo apt-get install libminiupnpc-dev
```

Download dash source code
----------------------------
```
cd ~
git clone https://github.com/dashpay/dash.git
```

Download and compile Berkley DB 4.8
-----------------------------------
```
cd ~
mkdir dash/db4/

wget 'http://download.oracle.com/berkeley-db/db-4.8.30.NC.tar.gz'
tar -xzvf db-4.8.30.NC.tar.gz
cd db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix/
../dist/configure --enable-cxx --disable-shared --with-pic --prefix=/home/evan/db4/
make install
```

Compile dash with Berkley DB 4.8
-----------------------------------
```
cd ~/dash/
./autogen.sh
./configure LDFLAGS="-L/home/ubuntu/dash/db4/lib/" CPPFLAGS="-I/home/ubuntu/dash/db4/include/"
make -s -j5
```

Run Dash Daemon/QT/Client
----------------------------
```
./src/dashd
./src/dash-qt
./src/dash-cli
```
 
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demo said:
And this is how the system converges. This can also be simulated as a "double vote", where someone casts a vote of the type <number, selection process>.
(actually the correct vote is a "triple vote" <number, selection process, minimum participation percentage> but I will explain this later on.)
Click to expand...

Arthur Breitman said:
"At every election you sense what the quorum is, and your required quorum goes down at every election based on the participation in the previous one. I am not super happy with this mechanism ...."
Code: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mgaDpuMSc0&feature=youtu.be&t=1452
Click to expand...
 
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Yet another reason why vote with numbers is needed.

From the veritas team.
Decreasing Treasury Fund
The portion of funds for proposed projects is 10% of each block reward during a budgeting cycle. The block reward
itself is decreased at a rate of 7% per year. Therefore, payments for proposals are also decreased by 7% per year.
Eventually, at some point in the future, there will be no funds to pay out.
Click to expand...
What the core team replied? Nothing!
They admitted the deficiency, and their only argument was that Dash has more than 7% growth comparing to the USD! :rolleyes:

And again the veritas team said:
Flexible Participation Requirements
Currently, the collateral amount of Dash needed to run a Masternode is fixed at 1000 Dash. For a more flexible and,
correspondingly, more stable system in a changing environment, it is preferable to have a dynamic value for voting
participants' deposits. This would allow more actors to participate, regardless of the current price of Dash.
Click to expand...

So what is the solution? Vote with numbers of course!

Let this damned 10% portion of funds for proposed projects together with this damned 1000 dash collateral for being a masternode to be voted. Let ALL the magic numbers with no theory behind to be voted. This is the solution, the only one!
 
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From the veritas team.

Note that a Masternode operator cannot modify a submitted proposal. Consider, for example, a Masternode operator who is generally supportive of a particular proposal. However, he believes the total amount of Dash requested in the proposal should be different than what was actually requested. In that case, the operator can only vote "Yes," "No," or "Abstain," for the proposal; he cannot make any suggested changes to it.
Click to expand...

And how this can be resolved? Voting with numbers of course!

However, since the discussion of the project is an open procedure, Masternode operators can argue for what they want in a proposal. But that discussion is done outside of the p2p network, usually on various Dash-related social media sites. A new proposal would have to be submitted to the network to take into consideration the suggested changes.
Click to expand...

Above they are trying to describe in a glimpse this procedure.

</vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?
yes 3 vote(s) 10.3%
no 23 vote(s) 79.3%
other 3 vote(s) 10.3%
</vote history>
 
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I'm not sure why this got so many no votes, unless people just really hate demo that much. Anything that adds flexibility to the voting process is a positive for me.

It's like building a car without a steering wheel and asking if you think it would be a good idea to add a steering wheel... Clearly the answer must be no... I mean, who needs to turn anyway?
 
dashly said:
It's like building a car without a steering wheel and asking if you think it would be a good idea to add a steering wheel... Clearly the answer must be no... I mean, who needs to turn anyway?
Click to expand...

Yet this is exactly what the greedy Dash generation of 2014-2016 responded. They wanted a car without a steering wheel. Their stupidity will echoes in eternity.

<vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?
*yes 4 vote(s) 12.1%
no 26 vote(s) 78.8%
other 3 vote(s) 9.1%
</vote history>
 
I would support any system that i thought would reduce the chance of good proposals being blocked by a minority. Currently the 400 vote gap occasionally feels like too high a barrier for some. We have a system of giving the money to the oroposals with the most votes first, so i see a much bigger downside to deciding not to fund than that associated with deciding to fund. I worry that there may be people voting who are not neccessarily on side.
 
Kevin Stalker said:
I would support any system that i thought would reduce the chance of good proposals being blocked by a minority.
Click to expand...

How do you define a good proposal? A good proposal for who? Good or bad cannot be defined accurately, it is relative. Your wording is unclear. Stop talking about good or bad, nobody knows what this really is. And start talking about majority or minority, because this is the only objective thing that can be counted.

Vote the numbers is a system that respects the minorities, but a minority cannot block a majority proposal. The only think a minority can do is to delay or to diminish the majority number, but it cannot blocked it.
 
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