Pre-Proposal - Visual Identity

[TanteStefana]

After sleeping on the new logo pre-proposal - visual identity. I now know what the O+M color palette used reminds me of. The colors used are very progressive aren't they in the gender identity political sense. A bit too feminine for my liking. I also echo others after looking at their polling results I think it was unfair that they used the same gradient on original logo when performing survey. Just my 2 cents. I'm currently leaning more towards keeping original current logo.

View attachment 6707

I'm also concerned from a distance O+M logo is very hard to identify. It looks like a scribble. I tested it as a favicon on web browser. It looks like a paper clip.

View attachment 6708

Also using as O+M logo as a currency symbol is causing me some concerns. The problem is the lines are too thin so blur when size is decreased. Take the Dash mobile wallet for example to showcase what I mean:

Current logo vs O+M Logo

View attachment 6711

As of right now. My preference would be too keep orignal from a practical perspective.

From a purely selfish point of view. I also find the O+M logo too restricting in my line of work. I've created well over a 1000 images with current Dash logo not including memes, gifs and t shirt designs. I feel rather limited by the double D and it's proving hard to work with already. I can use the current solo D logo easily to incorporate and manipulate in to images for news articles or even photo manipulation for jokey memes. Just looking at exisitng t shirt designs replacing with the DD logo is not pleasing to the eye.

The simplicty of current logo over O+M is important to recognize especially for languages that do not use the same alphabet. If you were living in China & did not know English. If I showed you each logo for 3 seconds and then asked you to draw it on a piece of paper. The current D only consists of 2 simple lines so easy a kid could draw it regardless of native language. The O+M paperclip is too complex to accuratley replicate, would it be recognizable when you factor in design angle etc. Don't believe me try it yourself. Also if you have kids ask them to take the 3 second logo Dash draw challenge.

Which logo is more recognizable?

View attachment 6713

Is it a diamond? is it DareDevil? is it an hourglass? or is it a paperclip?

O+M logo reminds me too much of Clippy from Windows XP 2001.

View attachment 6712

The current Dash D has more use as we've seen international communities take ownership proudly using overlays with their nation flags. You are way too limited to customize O+M logo due to thin lines.

With all that being said. I don't like the T&C logo either. It feels like it's been forced when it's not needed. It's about what is fit for purpose. I think this whole rebranding exercise has made me realize just how strong and versatile our current logo is in terms of applications and various media it is used in.

For that reason alone I see no justification for change just for the sake of changing. There was no dissatisfaction with current logo. All value is belief. It's the utility and benefits Dash provides that will carry Dash to the top not the packaging.

We're trying way too hard, trying to fix a problem that doesn't need fixing. The free market will ultimately decide via natural selction if we're truly the best solution in our field. Not based on logo but on functionality and ease of use alone. In my opinion we should be focussing our energy developing the functionality and continue to build from within. Fancy packaging only gets you so far, it's what's inside that counts that determines if people will use Dash again and again.

I'm proud when I tell people about our current Dash logo as last time round the final result was an amalgamation of multiple logo entries by community and it has stood the test of time. I'm proud of that history and I'm not convinced it needs changing.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-logo-contest.4394/
https://www.dashfoundation.io/blog/vote-on-the-logo-is-open/

It's a large scale marketing advertising outreach strategy campaign where we need the help most not the logo.

In my opinion all this time, energy and Dash spent on this exercise is a bitter pill to swallow as we could of been advertising and doing outreach efforts for months now utilizing social media platforms what we already had in our arsenal prior to ban announcements. I feel we've missed a real opportunity here. C'est la vie, life goes on.

I'm a true blue Dash fan through and through. If you want folks to know Dash is the champion of digital cash then throw a crown on the current D logo. Get creative and get the message right, don't try and reinvent the wheel from scratch at the expense of losing our identity and history with O+M logo. It's all about the journey folks. Besides Dash is no longer 2 layer. As we learnt in recent Evolution Demo 1 video Dash will be more a blockchain cube. So O+M logo is already outdated in that context.

I think this is where I was 2 days ago when Fernando first posted his results. But I've come to the realization that even if we kept the old Dash logo/branding, this exercise was a smart move. Still I don't have the answers I would like.

The reason for doing all of this is to evaluate our brand identity before the big public push. We were supposed to get data on researching public opinion. I take exception to the fact that the logo for O&M in their forms appears to have been comparing a simple DASH to logo/Dash. Would it have gotten the same results if they had used the Dash D as a logo with "Dash" underneath or the whole word DASH with Digital Cash underneath (which really tells it all)? I don't know, they didn't do that. Visually, the DD design is undoubtedly more interesting, but unfortunately, people have shown how common and not unique this idea is.

I am not happy with the research. I am not convinced. However, unlike Mark, I do see limitations to our current DASH logo. It's blocky (which was cool) but also makes it look masculine (not necessarily bad) and militaristic (a bit bad)

I didn't like the T&C proposal at all at first. It wasn't much different than what we had. Why bother changing I thought? Then I realized there was subtle brilliance in that proposal. It keeps the iconic basics, softens the edges, keeps the forward lean for speed AND creates a super simplistic icon that I can see being as recognizable as the two intersecting circles that are the iconic MasterCard symbol. Please look again, read the proposal, and look at the tilde looking dash symbol. I can see that as being instantly recognized as "Dash Digital Cash" in the future like the two intersecting circles instantly means MasterCard.

As icing on the cake, the tilde is easily accessible on the keyboard. It could be our currency symbol. "Thanks for lunch, I just sent you ~0.132 to cover my portion"

This is why I have concluded that although I am not happy with and do not trust the test results, I can see the success of other big businesses and the fact they have "icons" and that a simple, immediately recognized icon would serve us well. I do feel the current Dash symbol is too harsh, and shouldn't be all capital letters either, so I am actually very pleased with the T&C proposal, it's more of an Evolution from our past, not a break from our past.

In other words, I would choose the T&C proposal over our existing branding or the O&M submission.

 

[TheBigCat]

I think this is where I was 2 days ago when Fernando first posted his results. But I've come to the realization that even if we kept the old Dash logo/branding, this exercise was a smart move. Still I don't have the answers I would like.

The reason for doing all of this is to evaluate our brand identity before the big public push. We were supposed to get data on researching public opinion. I take exception to the fact that the logo for O&M in their forms appears to have been comparing a simple DASH to logo/Dash. Would it have gotten the same results if they had used the Dash D as a logo with "Dash" underneath or the whole word DASH with Digital Cash underneath (which really tells it all)? I don't know, they didn't do that. Visually, the DD design is undoubtedly more interesting, but unfortunately, people have shown how common and not unique this idea is.

I am not happy with the research. I am not convinced. However, unlike Mark, I do see limitations to our current DASH logo. It's blocky (which was cool) but also makes it look masculine (not necessarily bad) and militaristic (a bit bad)

I didn't like the T&C proposal at all at first. It wasn't much different than what we had. Why bother changing I thought? Then I realized there was subtle brilliance in that proposal. It keeps the iconic basics, softens the edges, keeps the forward lean for speed AND creates a super simplistic icon that I can see being as recognizable as the two intersecting circles that are the iconic MasterCard symbol. Please look again, read the proposal, and look at the tilde looking dash symbol. I can see that as being instantly recognized as "Dash Digital Cash" in the future like the two intersecting circles instantly means MasterCard.

As icing on the cake, the tilde is easily accessible on the keyboard. It could be our currency symbol. "Thanks for lunch, I just sent you ~0.132 to cover my portion"

This is why I have concluded that although I am not happy with and do not trust the test results, I can see the success of other big businesses and the fact they have "icons" and that a simple, immediately recognized icon would serve us well. I do feel the current Dash symbol is too harsh, and shouldn't be all capital letters either, so I am actually very pleased with the T&C proposal, it's more of an Evolution from our past, not a break from our past.

Nice analysis. I agree. The more I look at the T&C design, the more I like it. It respects and refers nicely to our original logo while looking updated, not militaristic at all and different than any font I have seen, so truly original in a subtle and nuanced way.


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[rion]

Fans of the existing logo:

I used to be in your camp. However, I ask you to reconsider voting to keep the existing logo, and rather vote for T&C, even if it's not 100% what you want. The stakes are too high to roll the dice with another round of rebrands. T&C is close enough for me:

• It is amenable to a currency ticker
• It retains many good aspects of the current logo (iconic D, forward slant, solid blue color, scales well, etc.)
• It includes many improvements (lowercase, scaled back masculinity without going overboard, etc)

Again, please vote T&C so that there's no risk of losing what you love in a later round. We can always iterate on our base design, unless we lose it completely to a design that throws so much of it away, like O&M.

 

[Efietskop]

For what it's worth, I'm also in the T&C camp now. I think our D symbol has great value as a currency and it has no place in the O&M logo. In my opinion the O&M logo does not consider the unique characteristics of the Dash organisation (it looks normal corporate logo) and the colour scheme will probably not look too good when produced using amateur equipment (which most of us are as a grassroots organisation.)

On the other hand I do like T&C better than our current logo. It is a natural evolution from our current logo while still adding a lot of value by professionalising our font and colours.


I also have issues with O&M research. It looks like an off the shelf marketing research program for a (tech) company. But Dash is not just a company that top-down tries to sell its product. Dash is an organisation that is made by people, it is open and decentralised. One can not only just use our product, but one can also participate. One can invest in a Masternode(share,) submit a proposal or make a DAP that uses Evolution. I don't think the aspects that were researched (solid, trustworthy and inspires confidence) necessarily reflect what Dash is or what Dash should aspire to be.

And this lack of understanding is also reflected in the O&M logo in my opinion. Dash's logo should be simple, recognisable, even after it has been hand drawn or when it is tiny. It should certainly not use colour schemes that may look horrible when printed using a 15 year old cheap inkjet printer. I think the current logo and the T&C one perform much better on these aspects.

 

[Mark Mason]

I'm still in remain camp as I feel it has the path of least resistance. Perhaps i'm just too macho and millitant in my Dash ways. I don't consume soy, so that might be why?!

All that manly testosterone has made my hair fall out.

Ok, if my back was up against the wall and it truly was a do or die gun to head scenario I was faced with. I would choose T&C logo as in my opinion it works better as a currency symbol and doesn't render all previous Dash branding/marketing efforts as obsolete as it's a fairly minor adjustment but still a recognizable change for those that already know of Dash but also those who are researching Dash for the first time and finding already available online resources.

I do confess and openly admit I'm struggling with this change as I work with the current Dash logo everyday in the images I create for the news. People naturally don't like and resist change. I've been playing a lot with each logo in photoshop, and have found my position and feelings changing on a daily basis as well. I've seen the same sentiment in Discord.

For me the current logo is still champion, however I'm not going to throw my toys out the pram if the masternode network selects either logo. I just think what we have is great already.

On Friday we had a community vote on Discord where O+M was most popular:

I then repeated the poll on Saturday and opinion seems to have now swung towards T&C:

This has been an interesting consensus exercise and test for our community. We all have our biases. I have friends in both camps right now, but the conversation and feedback members have been contributing to discussion to me is a great testament of why Dash in my eyes has the best crypto community. We all agree with the main mission objective regardless of logo vote outcome.

What I Learned About Consensus From Dash’s Branding Vote by Joël Valenzuela

Read more: https://www.dashforcenews.com/what-i-learned-about-consensus-from-dashs-branding-vote/

 

[Household Name®]

If the creative brief pointed to defining a 'digital currency/cash,' then the Tharp & Clark submission has chosen to continue many existing elements from the current design.

Logo:
This forward-leaning logo moves with the eye/page conveying momentum, however, to be called ‘Dash’ and use an italicized font always seemed too ‘on-the-nose’ for us, so they might consider a non-ital font. (The current Microsoft logo versus the old––far more legible and modern). Also, the vast majority of financial brands opt for a more conservative, non-italic design.

Font:
Sentence case is more approachable, however at scale the 'a' is clunky and feels like a capital 'd' flipped in the horizontal. This has the effect of trapping the 's' between it and the 'h.' These letters seem to diverge optically, consequently the overall shape of the word does not hold together as a unit. (Reads as D-ash.)

Icon:
If the capital 'D' is to be used as a stand-alone glyph, we concede it well conveys a currency/asset. If DASH is to live beside the $, £, € and ¥ it needs to read like a monetary symbol for adoption by the Unicode Consortium. (How users can type the “₿” symbol with their keyboards.) The rounding of the DASH 'tongue' softens it and is a nice adjustment, but may not read in Unicode.

Color palette:
The wider consumer audience is unfamiliar with current DASH colors so adjusting the current somewhat anemic blue now delivers a more ownable hue.

Next Steps:
Tharp & Clark and Ogilvy must consider Unicode review and adoption if DASH is to become a new global asset.

To have one's designs critiqued/voted by majority is no doubt frustrating for the designer(s), but such is the nature of a decentralized platform––many voices, many opinions.

Good luck to both submissions!

 

[masternube]

The proposal that gets most positive net votes will be the one selected, regardless of whether it garners the necessary 10% to fund.

How is this even possible if T&C wins? Will Core pay the 88k euro out of pocket, rather than letting the MNOs vote on whether we want to fund this?

 

[qwizzie]

I decided to vote for the Ogilvy & Mather logo design as it seems the most eye-catching and unique logo design of the three logo's, most capable of reaching its planned target group :

* male
* age 30-49
* non-tech savy, mainstream

Link : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nCpQdZQfdVF7IriKVmUnWLLDAOlN916O/view

I would have preferred a double-layered DC in this design instead of the double-layered DD as that would make the connection to Digital Cash far more easy to make while maintaining the double layer message, but in the end a good
and consistant marketing campaign should drive the double-layer message through anyways.

 

[JOL]

j'ai voté pour Ogilvy & Mather, mes raisons sont :

- Le choix est orienté vers les autres ceux qui ne sont pas dans Dash. Comme évolution est tourné vers les autres.
- L'étude Ogilvy & Mather existe et fait clairement resortir que ce qui s'approche de l'ancien logo et donc de celui proposé par T&C, est ce qui est le moins bien noté, et celui qui s'approche le plus du leur est le mieux noté. Il n'y as pas d'autre étude qui viendrait à ce jour prouver le contraire. Seulement des spéculations.
- Les gens verront principalement ce logo sur : les sites webs, leur téléphone et sur les devantures des magasins. regardez de nouveaux les exemples a ces endroits. Les T-shirts sont juste pour nous les fans, pas pour les utilisateurs.
- Nous allons devenir plus grand que Bitcoin et Eth, nous allons sortir du petit monde des crypto pour passer dans le monde réel, une simple petite lettre ne peut pas nous résumer.

Ce nouveau design est pour permettre l'adoption de masse, non pas pour réconforter la communauté, nous n'avons pas besoin de ça, nous connaissons la technologie, nous sommes Dash.

Pensez evolution pensez adoption de masse, pensez aux autres.

#######################
English google translation :

I voted for Ogilvy & Mather, my reasons are:

- The choice is directed towards others who are not in Dash. As evolution is turned to others.
- The Ogilvy & Mather study exists and makes it clear that what comes close to the old logo and therefore the one proposed by T & C, is what is the least rated, and the one that comes closest to theirs is the highest rated. There is no other study to prove the opposite. Only speculations.
- People will mainly see this logo on: the web sites, their phone and on the stores' deventures. look at the examples again at these places. T-shirts are just for us fans, not for users.
- We are going to become bigger than Bitcoin and Eth, we are going to come out of the crypto little world to get into the real world, a simple little letter can not sum us up.

This new design is to allow mass adoption, not to comfort the community, we do not need that, we know the technology, we are Dash.

Think evolution think mass adoption, think of others.

 

[TheBigCat]

I think their “study” is slanted toward their own design. I third-party study would be more believable. Their logo looks like an Advertisement for a brand of diapers or baby wipes. Not a digital currency.


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[TheBigCat]

I'm still in remain camp as I feel it has the path of least resistance. Perhaps i'm just too macho and millitant in my Dash ways. I don't consume soy, so that might be why?!

All that manly testosterone has made my hair fall out.

Ok, if my back was up against the wall and it truly was a do or die gun to head scenario I was faced with. I would choose T&C logo as in my opinion it works better as a currency symbol and doesn't render all previous Dash branding/marketing efforts as obsolete as it's a fairly minor adjustment but still a recognizable change for those that already know of Dash but also those who are researching Dash for the first time and finding already available online resources.

I do confess and openly admit I'm struggling with this change as I work with the current Dash logo everyday in the images I create for the news. People naturally don't like and resist change. I've been playing a lot with each logo in photoshop, and have found my position and feelings changing on a daily basis as well. I've seen the same sentiment in Discord.

For me the current logo is still champion, however I'm not going to throw my toys out the pram if the masternode network selects either logo. I just think what we have is great already.

View attachment 6730

On Friday we had a community vote on Discord where O+M was most popular:

View attachment 6728

I then repeated the poll on Saturday and opinion seems to have now swung towards T&C:

View attachment 6729

This has been an interesting consensus exercise and test for our community. We all have our biases. I have friends in both camps right now, but the conversation and feedback members have been contributing to discussion to me is a great testament of why Dash in my eyes has the best crypto community. We all agree with the main mission objective regardless of logo vote outcome.

What I Learned About Consensus From Dash’s Branding Vote by Joël Valenzuela

Read more: https://www.dashforcenews.com/what-i-learned-about-consensus-from-dashs-branding-vote/

I hate to bring up basic psychological tendencies here, but I believe it is very important to consider before jumping to conclusions. Please read this: https://www.jeremysaid.com/blog/customers-will-choose-middle-offer/


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[Kanuuker]

@JOL - there was no study done with the T&C logo. O&M only surveyed their logo against a modified original Dash logo and a different version of O&M's logo, an especially bad variant at that. As a masternode owner with voting rights that affect everyone, you have a responsibility to take the time to understand what you're voting on, which you obviously did not do.

 

[JOL]

@JOL - there was no study done with the T&C logo. O&M only surveyed their logo against a modified original Dash logo and a different version of O&M's logo, an especially bad variant at that. As a masternode owner with voting rights that affect everyone, you have a responsibility to take the time to understand what you're voting on, which you obviously did not do.

que ce qui s'approche de l'ancien logo et donc de celui proposé par T&C - makes it clear that what comes close to the old logo and therefore the one proposed by T & C

 

[GrandMasterDash]

I have cast my vote to O&M, they have made it clear how out-dated the current logo is.

1. The "DD" logo stands for Dash DAO; a movement for change, a voice for freedom "Digital Cash" is just a strapline, a much smaller part of what dash truly is. If you're voting for currency symbols, you've forgotten what dash stands for.

2. I reject comments that O&M's logo is too "corporate". Who says a DAO can't be professional and compete with visa and mastercard?

3. I am outraged that Core feels they can ignore the rules of super majority. If one of these logo "wins" according to their newly invented rules, I will be causing havoc. In particular, I may attempt to overturn the decision via the newly formed dash trust i.e. Core must abide by masternode wishes. This is governance by blockchain, not Core. To be clear, in the most recent conference call, Ryan said the treasury / governance system was working as planned, that any updates to it were considered low priority.

 

[mastermined]

I've changed my mind on the O&M design. After seeing Marks side by side mockup pictures and others I think we should just keep our current logo and dress it up a bit.

I like this one with maybe a few tweeks.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

You guys are making a complete mess of this. This proposal is not about currency symbols or "iconic D"s. Go ahead and show me where it says that?

Mercedes Benz, a three point star, originally represented their ambition to rule over "air, land and sea". How many of you knew that? - none? - why not? So who do you think is going to look at that finger in a hole and think "dash"?? The general public doesn't care for your "heritage" and the people putting genomic registration on the dash blockchain aren't thinking about "cash". How small your minds to think that the height of dash's success is to be cash, or stuck with a bland icon that has outstayed it's welcome. All that pent-up nostalgia has gone to your head.

Additionally, if either of these icons are implemented without passing super majority, then kiss goodbye to your "DAO"; the start of a very slippery slope. It would, I suppose, be a governance fork, choosing to abuse the tool you live and die by.

 

[kot]

I would really encourage you to present three logos to your families and friends (especially to those, who know nothing about crypto) and ask for an opinion, without providing too much of context or emotional background.
I think you might be surprised as I was surprised, when made this exercise.

 

[TheBigCat]

I would encourage everyone to not only present these three images to family and friends for feedback but to present Them in a different order than the original logo first, the Ogilvy and Mather logo second and the Tharp and Clark 3rd. The natural tendency psychologically for anyone seeing the three images is to choose the middle one. Makes up the order and then check out your responses. Of course Ogilvy and Mather knew this so they presented them this way when they did their “market research”. They are not dummies. They are also not the best choice in my opinion. They are the most expensive though!


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[TheBigCat]

Mix up the order, I meant. Sorry, Voice to text error above.


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[toknormal]

Mirrored from the exchanges on Discord forum:

One thing which I think is significant that hasn't been much mentioned: What is the strength in Dash ?

It's really the community.

I didn't really appreciate this till recently when I rethought my ideas on "monetary tech" a little bit. But the community is a major reason now why people invest in cryptocurrency projects (because they are decentralised !). When I think back on it, it was actually the reason I invested in Dash because the Dash bitcointalk thread was the first one I'd seen that seemed to have "normal" people in it rather than fanatics - so I bought some without knowing much about the tech.

So if we ditch the current logo which has represented the community, we're kind of ditching a symbol that has facilitated its growth. IMO we must not do that. Logos are far more powerful if they have a pedigree and our current one has a lot of social energy invested in it. We should respect that and allow it to grow with the project as a way of keeping everybody on board.

Keeping the original logo and evolving it is a sign to future investors that we value both the future and the past. That we create solid things and build on them. That whatever energy they contribute won't be wasted.

They will research the past history of this asset and see that there has been continuity which they will consider far more valuable than novelty.

Any logo can work. There are hugely successful companies with sh*t logos and many failed ones with great logos. It isn't the appearance of the logo that matters, it's what it represents. That's why I think we should respect the fact that our current design was solicitated by the community in an informal way, originated in the community and was accepted by the community and should be used as the basis for the future. I don't agree with the idea that this is just a "marketing exercise" because Dash wouldn't be here if it was just a marketing excercise.

Apple Records and Apple Computer were proud enough of their heritage to carry their identity into the mainstream despite having used a "fruit" to start off with. So should we be.