Pre-Proposal: Free Proposal Submissions for MNOs

MNO Poll: Would you vote for this?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • No

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Yes, but one submission per masternode per monthly cycle.

    Votes: 6 28.6%
  • Total voters
    21
GrandMasterDash

GrandMasterDash

Well-known member
Masternode Owner/Operator
This proposal, if successful, would be a feature request to Core.

Proposal fees have always remained a contentious issue. Good arguments have been made on all sides for fees to go higher, lower, or remain the same. Higher fees help to attract and moderate big and serious proposals, while lower fees allows us to keep the grassroots elements that got us to where we are today. We don't want to out-price ourselves, yet we don't want to be inundated with too many useless proposals.

My proposed solution is to maintain the 5 dash proposal fee, but allow MNOs to submit proposals for free, rate limited to one submission per day.

By doing this, we create a marketplace for MNOs to become Proposal Agents, charging whatever fee they choose to their clients. And because MNOs are signing these proposals, they can be clearly marked within Dash Central / Dash Masternode Tool etc.

Will this lead to spam proposals?
No, I don't think so. The collateral is incentive enough to keep things proper. However, I imagine it would be easy enough to rate limit proposals to one per day per masternode.

Cost: 5 dash
 
how will u control that MNOs do not get “corrupted” and start a biz on the side !?
proposal - 2 dash ;)
 
tungfa said:
how will u control that MNOs do not get “corrupted” and start a biz on the side !?
Click to expand...

How dare someone create a business on the side! All that evil profit, and actual use of DASH for it's intended purpose in the real world! I believe I'm clutching my pearls as tightly as I can, but a fainting couch may still be of necessity...

It blows my fuckin' mind that anything good and productive is considered "corrupted" around here... How can you BE money when you hate money and all of it's uses? Is it some yet unnamed version of self-loathing? I just don't get it...

That said... No. An MNO is perfectly capable of paying the fee as it is. In fact, uniquely suited to do so. There's no reason to lower the bar or dispense special treatment.
 
I am currently working on a proposal, i love the fact that it is not free. Because i do feel my proposal has a better chance of being read if i pay and the number of proposals are limited, rather than up against many others seeking to make a quick buck. I also feel that Masternodes will take proposals more seriously when they know the person submitting has a bit of skin in the game. Just an outsider opinion. This is also what makes me love Dash!
 
Make it one proposal per masternode a month and I will vote for it. As one proposal per day (with 4000+ masternodes) is absurdly high.
 
tungfa said:
how will u control that MNOs do not get “corrupted” and start a biz on the side !?
proposal - 2 dash ;)
Click to expand...

Entirely possible that someone will write inventive proposals to scam the system. But then again, we've seen people spend 5 dash to try and scam us. The same filters apply. We still ask questions and we still have a propensity to vote for people we trust.

For example, take a look at what @dashinstant is doing; actually went out to Circus City and interviewed them. That's not just money, that's his time. That could of been his baby project, but no, we just have this inbuilt expectation that people like him will do this for the love of it.

I don't know. I don't know MNOs can't have some faith in their own kind.
 
camosoul said:
How dare someone create a business on the side! All that evil profit, and actual use of DASH for it's intended purpose in the real world! I believe I'm clutching my pearls as tightly as I can, but a fainting couch may still be of necessity...

It blows my fuckin' mind that anything good and productive is considered "corrupted" around here... How can you BE money when you hate money and all of it's uses? Is it some yet unnamed version of self-loathing? I just don't get it...

That said... No. An MNO is perfectly capable of paying the fee as it is. In fact, uniquely suited to do so. There's no reason to lower the bar or dispense special treatment.
Click to expand...

Yes, we are quite capable of doing so but, realistically, how often does it happen?

The important thing is, by having a price differentiator we create a marketplace and an opportunity for people to be more creative with proposals. Initiatives like dashtreasury.org are fine but not readily discernible from "normal" proposals.
 
Will_DD said:
I am currently working on a proposal, i love the fact that it is not free. Because i do feel my proposal has a better chance of being read if i pay and the number of proposals are limited, rather than up against many others seeking to make a quick buck. I also feel that Masternodes will take proposals more seriously when they know the person submitting has a bit of skin in the game. Just an outsider opinion. This is also what makes me love Dash!
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I think 1000 collateral is skin in the game. By encouraging proposals via MNOs, we create an environment where reputation is re-enforced. Instead of dealing with 100's of proposals from 100's of unknown people, we gradually learn that some MNOs are good at producing results.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Entirely possible that someone will write inventive proposals to scam the system. But then again, we've seen people spend 5 dash to try and scam us.
Click to expand...

Then the logical step is to increase cost, isn't it?

I'd rather vote for proposal cost to be higher to further decrease scam attempts and raise the value of each proposal.
 
nebojsa said:
Then the logical step is to increase cost, isn't it?

I'd rather vote for proposal cost to be higher to further decrease scam attempts and raise the value of each proposal.
Click to expand...

Then this proposal is for you because when you charge more than 5 dash you personally would receive greater reward.

Out of curiosity, how many proposals have you submitted on the behalf of others? And how much did you charge them?
 
Great idea!!!!

Although I am not an MNO, I voted a clear yes (without prerequisites)

<vote history>
MNO Poll: Would you vote for this?
*Yes 3 vote(s) 30.0%
No 3 vote(s) 30.0%
Yes, but one submission per masternode per monthly cycle. 4 vote(s) 40.0%
</vote history>
 
I do not know what you are talking about. You sure you didn't mix me with someone else?

But, I will answer your question anyway since I see you have a grunge on a price of submitting proposals.

If I put my own money into proposal whether it's 5 or 15 Dash it is after all my money put into it with not exactly the same fiat price due to oscillations of Dash price these couple of months. So, when you put it on paper it looks like this:

Buy/Exchange 5Dash - 254e/Dash and the current price is around 225-228 euros - So, 88x26(price difference since I posted proposal) is 2300 euros I would lose if the price keeps like this or even more drop down if my proposal passes in a week or so. And then there are exchange fees and bank transfer fees which I do not calculate into proposals.

Then, due to last month's price decrease, I lost around 1500e just because of Dash price going down. Thankfully, I still have 3 Dash left since Dandy came up with help of camera and couple of other guys from the venue and paid with Dash.

To sum it up with this current month that is around 3500e I would/will pay from my own pocket. Change it to Dash and that is around 15 Dash gone. So, I do not see the reason I couldn't add those 15 Dash into proposal fee after all. And after all of that, I am not complaining about the stuff you do because I do find it worth it for Dash, no matter if the price of the proposal is 5 or 15 Dash, because I know I will make Dash useful here. And on the other side, if someone plans to scam the system it will be still viable, but they will face some barrier before going into it.

This month is my 2nd proposal up and running for my own project to promote, educate and implement Dash in Serbia's ecosystem, that said it is clear that I do not submit proposals on someone else's behalf.

And now one question for you. If you put your own Dash into proposal no matter if it is 5 or 15 Dash, and your proposal passes and you get 5 or 15 Dash back, how do you receive a greater reward? Unless you are thinking of sudden price increase of Dash, which is obviously not happening, I cannot see any logic in this statement.

Plus, if your intentions are good and you are an MNO, why do you even care about a price for the proposal? Isn't a reward around 7 Dash per month for MNO's?
 
nebojsa said:
I do not know what you are talking about. You sure you didn't mix me with someone else?

But, I will answer your question anyway since I see you have a grunge on a price of submitting proposals.

If I put my own money into proposal whether it's 5 or 15 Dash it is after all my money put into it with not exactly the same fiat price due to oscillations of Dash price these couple of months. So, when you put it on paper it looks like this:

Buy/Exchange 5Dash - 254e/Dash and the current price is around 225-228 euros - So, 88x26(price difference since I posted proposal) is 2300 euros I would lose if the price keeps like this or even more drop down if my proposal passes in a week or so. And then there are exchange fees and bank transfer fees which I do not calculate into proposals.

Then, due to last month's price decrease, I lost around 1500e just because of Dash price going down. Thankfully, I still have 3 Dash left since Dandy came up with help of camera and couple of other guys from the venue and paid with Dash.

To sum it up with this current month that is around 3500e I would/will pay from my own pocket. Change it to Dash and that is around 15 Dash gone. So, I do not see the reason I couldn't add those 15 Dash into proposal fee after all. And after all of that, I am not complaining about the stuff you do because I do find it worth it for Dash, no matter if the price of the proposal is 5 or 15 Dash, because I know I will make Dash useful here. And on the other side, if someone plans to scam the system it will be still viable, but they will face some barrier before going into it.

This month is my 2nd proposal up and running for my own project to promote, educate and implement Dash in Serbia's ecosystem, that said it is clear that I do not submit proposals on someone else's behalf.

And now one question for you. If you put your own Dash into proposal no matter if it is 5 or 15 Dash, and your proposal passes and you get 5 or 15 Dash back, how do you receive a greater reward? Unless you are thinking of sudden price increase of Dash, which is obviously not happening, I cannot see any logic in this statement.

Plus, if your intentions are good and you are an MNO, why do you even care about a price for the proposal? Isn't a reward around 7 Dash per month for MNO's?
Click to expand...

By giving preference to MNOs to submit proposals, it generally becomes easier to decide on them because over time a small number of people would of built up a reputation for delivering. As stated elsewhere, the current system encourages 100's of proposals from 100's of people, therefore trust is harder to build, understand / more dispersed.
 
I do agree with you on this. Trust is harder to build, thus proposal owners need to work hard on gaining it/keeping it. And yes, the current system encourages 100's proposals from 100's of people who are willing to spare 5 Dash for it, which is a high bar for submitting proposals already, thus reducing the number of proposals and giving MNOs enough time to read them all. Increasing it will just reduce the number of proposals, scam attempts and increase their quality.
 
nebojsa said:
I do agree with you on this. Trust is harder to build, thus proposal owners need to work hard on gaining it/keeping it. And yes, the current system encourages 100's proposals from 100's of people who are willing to spare 5 Dash for it, which is a high bar for submitting proposals already, thus reducing the number of proposals and giving MNOs enough time to read them all. Increasing it will just reduce the number of proposals, scam attempts and increase their quality.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this proposal doesn't change that. Proposers still have to work hard to convince an MNO (Proposal Agent) to take on their cause. The MNO doesn't have to charge more or less, but they would be free to do so.

Again, I use DashInstant's recent Circus City videos as an example. The dash community freely consumes his content at his expense (time). If he had been the Proposal Agent, the onus would of been on him to deliver and submit reports (paid), or lose trust among other MNOs. Is that model not worth trying?
 
The Shrem Sage is another example. Feedback from his proposal has been very limited. If it had gone through a Proposal Agent then the agent would of had the responsibility to dig deeper.
 
I see where you are going with this. But there is a Green Candle for this sort of stuff? correct me if I am wrong.
 
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