Pre-Proposal Discussion: Dash to Fiat Payment Processor

DartPayments said:
Thanks for the offer



We're very open to the idea. If someone can suggest a legal and technical framework for doing so we're all ears.
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eduffield should just implement "3rd party masternode payments" of some sort so people can always pay back the masternodes with equity, instead of the foundation...

I can hope... can't I? lol
 
InTheWoods said:
I suggest you read this article Quora You need to give back a much higher %. Somewhere around 20%, otherwise you'd play us for suckers. No offense. :) I'm sure you have the best intentions.
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The article linked actually suggests a 15/85 split in the seed round if you look at the table. Certainly open to 20%, but would like to hear from some more of the community on the issue.

InTheWoods said:
A payment processor is a big project. What makes you think you can do better than CoinPayments that already supports DASH?

What merchant would want to use a Dash only payment processor with the current trading volume? I know Dash has potential but still.... A merchant would be more inclined to use a payment processor offering bunch of coins, except of course if you're talking Bitcoin which is a 6 billion USD market, not great by the way. 6 billion is small but still, tempting enough for some even if for marketing purposes alone, to draw in new customers.
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It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. We're willing to take some risk here to provide first class infrastructure for Dash.
 
If the vote for your 1200 Dash doesn't come to fruition, why not put out a call for investors from the Dash community.
100 shares/12 Dash or 50 shares/24 Dash. You just need to make it worth the investors spend.
Either part ownership in your business or a monthly % return on investment or treat as a loan you payback with interest.
Good to see a couple of Southern Hemisphere guys giving it a go.
Good luck!
 
Solarminer said:
This is a great proposal. I would like to make a few suggestions.

I would rather see this as a loan option. So your proposal would look like this:
  • Asking for 1200 Dash in 3 budget cycles.
  • Will payback 1200 Dash starting 6 months out and ending in 12 months. The benefit to Dash is an dash/fiat exchange - there isn't a reason to pay back more than the 1200 Dash. How this is paid back is another discussion.
  • Add some detail on timing/revenue. How long will this take to setup, how you expect to gain customers, your expected profits/mo, your expected exchange fee, etc. Show us that this is a thought out plan and it is likely to be successful.
This allows you to keep all profits moving forward and keeps that discussion out of the proposal. The voters would then judge this proposal based on your skill set, reputation, business plan, and risk of paying back the funds.
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Interesting idea. 6 months seems a bit short for something like this to start generating revenue to pay 1,200 DASH back. There's multiple months of development and beta testing needed before a full public launch. That's also placing quite high exchange rate risk on us. Dash could go up 10 times over the next 6-12 months.

The first 2-3 months would likely be internal development, and then another 1-2 months of beta testing and refinement. We'd use multiple methods to gain customers (posting on various dash community sites, crypto news site, direct approaches to merchants already accepting bitcoin with Bitpay/Coinbase, etc.). Fees would be 1%, but there may be times when it is lowered to 0% (new customers, beta testing, etc.).

In terms of revenue I'm not really willing to try and predict it. I could come up with some numbers that seem achievable, but in reality they are unlikely to match what we'll actually achieve. Dash (and crypto in general) is so rapidly evolving and unstable.

We're here for the long run, not a quick buck. Even if we run at a loss for a year or two we'll keep at it as long as we can afford to. While making profit is the end goal we truly believe in Dash, and that this is a key piece of infrastructure for growth going forwards.
 
Dunedoo said:
If the vote for your 1200 Dash doesn't come to fruition, why not put out a call for investors from the Dash community.
100 shares/12 Dash or 50 shares/24 Dash. You just need to make it worth the investors spend.
Either part ownership in your business or a monthly % return on investment or treat as a loan you payback with interest.
Good to see a couple of Southern Hemisphere guys giving it a go.
Good luck!
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Anyone is welcome to contact us if they would like to help/join us in some way.

Raising funds from individuals this way would be entering fairly dodgy legal territory, but we're probably small enough to pass under the radar.
 
12 Dash is a nice entry investment for small timers, I could live with letting it slide for a year a two.
 
DartPayments said:
Interesting idea. 6 months seems a bit short for something like this to start generating revenue to pay 1,200 DASH back. There's multiple months of development and beta testing needed before a full public launch. That's also placing quite high exchange rate risk on us. Dash could go up 10 times over the next 6-12 months.
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Thanks for your answers. Be sure to include this in your proposal writeup.

You could also offer to pay back the loan in Dash at the US$ rate when it was taken out. Or gold oz rate - whatever. For example
Payments at 1200 Dash x $4/dash = $4800
At time of return if Dash is $8: $4800/$8/dash = 600 Dash.

The payment term of the loan can be changed...I just gave an example with 6 months.
 
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Solarminer said:
Thanks for your answers. Be sure to include this in your proposal writeup.
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Yeah, that's a good idea. We'll probably have a 'Other funding option' section or something to that effect.

I do like your idea though, but perhaps not quite right for us at this stage. If we start seeing some revenue but need more funds then we would be more confident in making a proposal like you suggest, and paying it back on time.
 
As much as I like this project and really want it to happen, how is anything going to be enforced if they remain anonymous? Too big a risk unless I am missing something. What's stopping them from taking the money and not developing? This also makes the loan idea dead in the water.

If they make themselves known to the core Dev team then I might be OK with this but as long as they are totally anonymous, giving or loaning money upfront to anonymous people is a big no no. I would have thought that if they are converting into fiat, a banking relationship is required in any case and therefore they can't be totally anonymous.

The money they are asking for isn't a lot but yeah.
 
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I agree with BolehVPN

I would vote NO to this with my masternodes.

Dash shouldn't be funding businesses which operate independently. As of yet, there is no management mechanism built in to oversee "budget operations," so Dash would simply have to trust a for-profit startup to start paying the network back whenever it becomes profitable.

How do you prove the company is operating as promised? To actually accomplish something like this, Dash will have to fund multiple PMs to travel the world and audit these companies and keep them in check? And even then, what's to stop the companies from bribing the auditors and continually scamming the network?

This type of project just seems a bit unrealistic, especially on a measly 10% of the block reward.
The funding should be for "sunk cost" improvements to the network which would otherwise not get accomplished through altruistic donations. Dash is not in the business of funding and managing startups. It is simply not possible without loads more infrastructure and planning, etc, and even then, it does not seem appropriate, IMO.
 
I agree with Bridgewater and really liked both the ideas from Solarminer and Dunedoo

This is an example of for-profit enterprise, and should not be subsidised by the network, creating a possible unfair advantage against eventual competitor projects.

The better solution would be the putting out of a call for investors from the Dash community, as Dunedoo suggested. I am sure many investors would be interested, granted that the proposers are trustworthy (I would definitely want to participate).

Second viable solution, from my point of view, is the loan option.
 
BolehVPN said:
As much as I like this project and really want it to happen, how is anything going to be enforced if they remain anonymous?
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We have no intention of hiding under a cloak of anonymity. Feel free to ask any questions about us, we'll be happy to answer most. I have other accounts on DashTalk, BitcoinTalk, and Reddit, and am happy yo verify with a trusted community member (views I have expressed with these accounts were made assuming ongoing privacy, so I won't post them publicly. We have been involved with Dash since approximately February 2014 (1 month after launch).

After a short while we would be looking to form a limited liability company. This would be initially registered in New Zealand where company records containing director and shareholder information is freely available.
 
Bridgewater said:
I agree with BolehVPN
Dash shouldn't be funding businesses which operate independently. As of yet, there is no management mechanism built in to oversee "budget operations," so Dash would simply have to trust a for-profit startup to start paying the network back whenever it becomes profitable.
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We would hope that by building a high quality Dash to fiat payment processor that we would increase the utility of Dash, and therefore raise the price benefiting all holders.

To an extent yes there is an amount of trust that needs to be placed in us, and we understand why people may be apprehensive about that. We will be as transparent as possible and post regular development updates.

Bridgewater said:
How do you prove the company is operating as promised? To actually accomplish something like this, Dash will have to fund multiple PMs to travel the world and audit these companies and keep them in check? And even then, what's to stop the companies from bribing the auditors and continually scamming the network?
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We're not asking for ongoing funding, just an initial boost over a 3 month period in exchange for equity to the Dash Foundation (or the network if it is technologically and legally feasible). The real proof that we are doing what we are committing to doing is when there is a usable product (check out our working demo dartpayments 'dotty' com).
 
raganius said:
I agree with Bridgewater and really liked both the ideas from Solarminer and Dunedoo

This is an example of for-profit enterprise, and should not be subsidised by the network, creating a possible unfair advantage against eventual competitor projects.
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We're not asking for a subsidy as such, but rather an investment. Dash will get two things in return:

  1. Equity to the Dash Foundation (or network if financially and legally feasible)
  2. A first class payment processor which will increase the utility of Dash and therefore increase the price

raganius said:
The better solution would be the putting out of a call for investors from the Dash community, as Dunedoo suggested. I am sure many investors would be interested, granted that the proposers are trustworthy (I would definitely want to participate).
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Anyone interested in investing money or offering their skills is encouraged to contact us.
 
If the development is financed from the Dash's budget - I would like to see as a result not a for-profit 3-rd party company, but an open source code (which can be used by anyone who want to use it, thereby enhancing the entire ecosystem of Dash, in a competitive environment.

As it is with Lamassu, Dash'n'Vend, Wifi-Portal.
 
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