(Pre-Proposal) DASHPayCard - DASH Branded Debit Card + Fiat/Dash Integration

ldw said:
He scammed the Dash community.
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You could be right. Certainly, time will tell.

Or...Visa/Mastercard has gotten a bee up their bonnet about crypto backed debit cards as a real threat to their business model.

Did you notice the news from ShakePay? They got shut down to do any further business in the US or Canada:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/...visa-cards-services-to-clients-outside-the-eu

I'm totally speculating here, but I just wonder if Payza got the same kind of death threats, uhhhhh, I mean regulatory advisory notice from the banking cartel in the US that they are not welcome here and they should leave, or else...
 
And we're back to the "update overdue" place again. This is really quite frustrating and although the product might still be on the way, it does not appear that the OP places a high priority/value on keeping the Dash community informed or even having much of a relationship with the Dash community at all, as his public social media presence is constantly filled with comments centering on other projects. I hope Charlie will still deliver even if for nothing else than to protect his reputation.

Note: apparently Max Keiser will be meeting up with Charlie during his dash sponsored tour later this month. I am interested to see how that goes...
https://twitter.com/stacyherbert/status/905266678434590720
 
Lots of contractual relationships (like a contractor building a new McDonalds) insert language with very specific penalties if certain deadlines are missed.

As we gain the ability to have a contractual relationship with Proposal Owners, and something like escrow services, maybe they get penalized monetarily every time they miss an update...
 
solarguy said:
Lots of contractual relationships (like a contractor building a new McDonalds) insert language with very specific penalties if certain deadlines are missed.

As we gain the ability to have a contractual relationship with Proposal Owners, and something like escrow services, maybe they get penalized monetarily every time they miss an update...
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The proposal system is broken and really needs to be resolved otherwise as dash price increases more scammers will come out of the wood works so to speak.

I sent Charlie a message on reddit. Lets see if he updates this thread seeing as he hasnt updated a thing since he won the proposal.
 
Gunna said:
I sent Charlie a message on reddit. Lets see if he updates this thread seeing as he hasnt updated a thing since he won the proposal.
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Charlie's lack of engagement on this project, after he's collected the funds, seems mighty telling. Unfortunately, there's no recourse for DASH apart from to just publicly shame these shucksters who run off with MN funding. How many "ATM"s and "Credit Card"s are we gonna fund, to have nothing to show for it? Apparently several. The whole pay-upfront with no string attached method of funding needs to be addressed. What is the incentive for these folks to actually deliver? As far as I can tell, there's none. That seems like a mighty broken incentive program.
 
asabove.sobelow said:
Charlie's lack of engagement on this project, after he's collected the funds, seems mighty telling. Unfortunately, there's no recourse for DASH apart from to just publicly shame these shucksters who run off with MN funding. How many "ATM"s and "Credit Card"s are we gonna fund, to have nothing to show for it? Apparently several. The whole pay-upfront with no string attached method of funding needs to be addressed. What is the incentive for these folks to actually deliver? As far as I can tell, there's none. That seems like a mighty broken incentive program.
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We can always sue them.
 
There is a contract. It just isn't a traditional one, even verbal contracts are binding, they are just hard to enforce since there isn't a record of it.
To be legally valid there are only two requirements for a contract:
  • All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other).
  • Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value.
He came to us with an offer, we accepted it and rendered payment. In the eyes of the law that is a contract.
 
Name3 said:
There is a contract. It just isn't a traditional one, even verbal contracts are binding, they are just hard to enforce since there isn't a record of it.
To be legally valid there are only two requirements for a contract:
  • All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other).
  • Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value.
He came to us with an offer, we accepted it and rendered payment. In the eyes of the law that is a contract.
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Very good point, but if such a thing happened, who would be paid out and who would sue? Would we just hire them through the network to sue? Therefore then we could decide who gets the funds and who sues?

Not saying we should though but legally could that make a case?!
 
MizzyMax said:
Very good point, but if such a thing happened, who would be paid out and who would sue? Would we just hire them through the network to sue? Therefore then we could decide who gets the funds and who sues?

Not saying we should though but legally could that make a case?!
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You could argue that burning the funds could be considered payment back to the network.
 
Gunna said:
He came to us with an offer, we accepted it and rendered payment. In the eyes of the law that is a contract.
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Right! Ahh, if only there was some kind of "intelligent" or "clever" or "astute" contract, which could hold the allocated funds in escrow until the community votes to release, or something. The way the system currently operates seems sub-optimal, and there's no reason/incentive for folks to actually deliver anything, as they get paid upfront w/o having to do anything but put together a proposal and spend 5 DASH.

Is there any talk or work on adding such an escrow functionality to the system? It would seem to be a win/win to further optimize this - so the issue no longer exists - versus talk of lawsuits which will only waste time/energy.
 
Truth be told, we all shouldn't be so stupid to give these scammers so much money in the first place (again and again and again...)

Somebody should make the sum of all the money lost on never fulfilled proposals, it's a staggering amount for sure.
 
I think requesters can be held accountable. I'm not sure if it would fall under contract law or fraud if someone didn't intend to fulfill their end of the bargain. Dash could be considered a grant and it's still illegal to defraud a grant-giving organization. The thing is, you do not lack the resources to find out. Maybe the core team needs to do a treasury budget to research and enforce prior disbursements?
 
ldw said:
Truth be told, we all shouldn't be so stupid to give these scammers so much money in the first place (again and again and again...)

Somebody should make the sum of all the money lost on never fulfilled proposals, it's a staggering amount for sure.
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Truth be told, we shouldn't have a system which pays upfront, but commits to and only pays once the agreed-to service/goods have been satisfactorily delivered. With such a system, the scammers won't ever get paid and they'll go elsewhere. The way the system currently works, as we've seen time and time again, will keep netting us these waste/fails until the system itself gets fixed. The bogus projects are a symptom, not the disease.
 
asabove.sobelow said:
Truth be told, we shouldn't have a system which pays upfront, but commits to and only pays once the agreed-to service/goods have been satisfactorily delivered. With such a system, the scammers won't ever get paid and they'll go elsewhere. The way the system currently works, as we've seen time and time again, will keep netting us these waste/fails until the system itself gets fixed. The bogus projects are a symptom, not the disease.
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The problem is most of the projects that we fund require the money we are giving them to carry out whatever it is they want to do. If we can't pay them until after it is completed then they can't actually do anything.
 
Yeah you will need credit for that and insurance and a whole bunch of barriers. To be honest the system works, yes some have scammed but it's the large minority. And most of the campaigns have been pretty good.
 
maybe we should have automatic wallet that release the fund slowly and upon the updates received?

we maybe robbed but there are many criminals. I don't know what his belief is, but I believe one day

he will have to answer for his deeds.

we just try to avoid it in the future, especially large funds.
 
TroyDASH said:
You could argue that burning the funds could be considered payment back to the network.
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Ahh great idea, if a proposal owner doesn't follow through, masternodes could burn the funds they gave away. but also if that person knows the funds will be burned, he could decide to spend it all or just recycle his coins, and we would just burn someone who had nothing to do with it.

I think in the end it's really considered a gift, a gift that we hope is useful to the Dash network and provides value. We trust everyone approved to provide value for Dash has good intentions and we may have 1 or 2 bad actors in the mix trying to swindle the funds away. when you have 100 good payments to those 1 or 2 bad ones it's a sufficient enough system for me.
 
MizzyMax said:
Ahh great idea, if a proposal owner doesn't follow through, masternodes could burn the funds they gave away. but also if that person knows the funds will be burned, he could decide to spend it all or just recycle his coins, and we would just burn someone who had nothing to do with it.

I think in the end it's really considered a gift, a gift that we hope is useful to the Dash network and provides value. We trust everyone approved to provide value for Dash has good intentions and we may have 1 or 2 bad actors in the mix trying to swindle the funds away. when you have 100 good payments to those 1 or 2 bad ones it's a sufficient enough system for me.
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I disagree. As Dash grows we are going to run into situations like these. I think if we want to be taken seriously and truly be the future of money we can't just be handing out gifts. We need some way to enforce that people actually carry through on the contracts that we make with them. Honestly I am just waiting for a legal office to step up and be legal sub-DAO that can handle non-fulfillment of contracts and lobbying efforts.
 
younglegend said:
maybe we should have automatic wallet that release the fund slowly and upon the updates received?

we maybe robbed but there are many criminals. I don't know what his belief is, but I believe one day

he will have to answer for his deeds.

we just try to avoid it in the future, especially large funds.
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That's not a bad idea. Maybe each successful treasury request should be assigned and paid through an online hot wallet instead of their own wallet. Eliminates the risk of funds being lost due to HD crash. The challenge would be setting up a disbursement system that works for all users.
 
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