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[PRE-PROPOSAL]: Dash 'Kuva' project - launching Dash in Zimbabwe

Would you vote for this proposal (MNO's only please)


  • Total voters
    14
Hi Drako,

Thanks for your hard work and vision on this proposal.

I enjoyed your interview with Tao and it was shocking to hear about literally cleaning "dirty" money. Wow.
Too bad American dollar bills aren't made of plastic like the ones we have in Canada!

Anyway, as mentioned, I'd like to see milestone-based payments in escrow with Core.
Also, if you aren't prepared to offer an equity stake and since Dash is paying for the vast amount of the research and hardware, I'd like for your technology and app to be open-sourced and shared with Core.
This way, if for some reason it doesn't work in Zim, or something happens to this venture, we will have something to show for it.

With that, I will vote yes. If not, I will abstain.
Hi Djcrypto,
The way we are adding value to the Dash ecosystem is that if we can land this in Zim, the upside is that it will cause the value of Dash to rise a corresponding amount. Offering equity may seem a simple concept but instead we are essentially doing the same thing by contributing to the Dash ecosystem by driving its usage and therefore raising the value of Dash for Masternodes and other holders/participants. The network does need to decide if they feel this initiative will add value, if so then we are a ready and able team to make it happen.
We have the aim of launching to other countries, making this an enterprise that sustains itself; in this case we do need to retain control of IP, or this may not be possible. In particular we would be much less able to raise further external investment. Like all proposals or projects of this nature, there is risk involved, but we feel that the potential to make an impact here is worth it for the network. We hope you feel the same and vote to support us!
 
Strongly agree. If it's not open-source, it's not real or worth funding. 4cents now... ;)
Hi Djcrypto, please do consider that many other ecosystem enhancements paid for by proposals such as exchange integrations are not open sourced for very sound commercial reasons. I have highlighted this above also, happy to discuss further though.
 
I just watched the interview with Tao. OK, this is not a cheap proposal but Drako comes over very well, the project looks credible and if successful it would be massive for Dash. I am inclined to say yes.
Hi Seascape, thanks a lot for the support, much appreciated!
 
Hi Djcrypto, please do consider that many other ecosystem enhancements paid for by proposals such as exchange integrations are not open sourced for very sound commercial reasons. I have highlighted this above also, happy to discuss further though.

I don't see any downside to you. If it works like you hope, there's no need for Core to access it. If it doesn't work, at least Core can pick up where you left off.
There can be safeguards like non-disclosure agreements and non-compete agreements for delivering on the timeline that you are proposing.
You're asking us to pay for development and to hope and pray that we get the result that your plan suggests.
At least with integration into an exchange we are guaranteed an end result.
IMO this proposal has more potential points of failure and the risk is higher.
 
Hi Djcrypto, please do consider that many other ecosystem enhancements paid for by proposals such as exchange integrations are not open sourced for very sound commercial reasons. I have highlighted this above also, happy to discuss further though.
Yes but these were much smaller projects. You are asking for a half a million dollars at current Dash price. On the top of that It is very likely that the value of Dash you are asking for will increase during the next 8 months. Therefore milestone financing with an escrow would be a good idea.
I like the project, but for this kind of money Dash network would need some assurances. If you cannot even commit to open source I perceive this investment as too risky. Zimbabwe is not a great country to do business in. The rule of law is interpreted differently there. Government is corrupted and can shut you down any moment. The risk of this investment is relatively high as you hinted at it in your opening post.
Network funding is critical, since given the risks, institutional private investment for such a project is very difficult to obtain.

Maybe you should sign some sort of a contract with the core or MNOs (once they have legal entity in Switzerland) clarifying the issue of IP. If you are asking MNOs for that much money you have to give something back. A vogue assumption that it will increase value of Dash in the future is not enough given the risk.

Maybe I am just risk averse but these are my two duffs.
 
Yes but these were much smaller projects. You are asking for a half a million dollars at current Dash price. On the top of that It is very likely that the value of Dash you are asking for will increase during the next 8 months. Therefore milestone financing with an escrow would be a good idea.
I like the project, but for this kind of money Dash network would need some assurances. If you cannot even commit to open source I perceive this investment as too risky. Zimbabwe is not a great country to do business in. The rule of law is interpreted differently there. Government is corrupted and can shut you down any moment. The risk of this investment is relatively high as you hinted at it in your opening post.


Maybe you should sign some sort of a contract with the core or MNOs (once they have legal entity in Switzerland) clarifying the issue of IP. If you are asking MNOs for that much money you have to give something back. A vogue assumption that it will increase value of Dash in the future is not enough given the risk.

Maybe I am just risk averse but these are my two duffs.
Hi AnarchicCluster, thanks for the comments - I understand what you are saying regarding providing assurances and that the money seems a lot. We do have a milestone plan, and a multi-month funding schedule which allows allocation of these funds and progress to be seen (and voted for) over the next three months.
I have spoken to a number of MNOs so far, and we do believe this project and the potential impact to the Dash network would be incredibly positive. Although you mention some broad risks related to government corruption, if we have issues in Zimbabwe then we don't intend to stop everything. Together with the safeguards we are planning for holders of Dash on our app, we would look to implement elsewhere (another country on the African continent) as a beach head. It is critical that Kuvacash eventually be a self-sustaining enterprise that contributes to the Dash ecosystem. What this means that as well as potentially taking external investment to implement it, we need protection of the intellectual property or it won't be viable for us - we intend to be a key value-adding partner of the Dash ecosystem for the long term, and to attract a wide range of investment that allows us to spread the use of Dash as far and wide as possible.
Specifically regarding your comments on a corrupt government, aside from the monetary crisis, Zimbabwe is relatively() stable at the present moment; there may be some corruption but it does have honest people in government that are being called to stabilise the cash crisis using technology. We aim to engage and provide incentive for government to work with us on a legitimate basis. Our vision is to get Dash into the hands of as many people as possible, helping them to participate in the economy in an easier, fairer and more efficient way, and if this first month of the proposal is passed we can get started on our plan. For more info, I'll be posting up details of our webinar shortly too.
 
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I don't see any downside to you. If it works like you hope, there's no need for Core to access it. If it doesn't work, at least Core can pick up where you left off.
There can be safeguards like non-disclosure agreements and non-compete agreements for delivering on the timeline that you are proposing.
You're asking us to pay for development and to hope and pray that we get the result that your plan suggests.
At least with integration into an exchange we are guaranteed an end result.
IMO this proposal has more potential points of failure and the risk is higher.
Hi Djcrypto, I understand you may have reservations - it is a complex project, but we have the team to deliver and we are trying to create something that has viability for the long term. We certainly intend to get this done no matter what, and don't intend to leave off anywhere ;) hope you will support us!
 
Hello,

I am going to vote that not, the reasons:

1) I think it is a lot of money, without having guarantees to carry out the project to good purpose, and more in an African country.

1.1) Invent the wheel, making an app based on Copay when DashPay is in the final phase, I consider throwing money and resources.

2) In Africa, legal security in such businesses, which directly attack banking, does not exist.

3) There is already a precedent called Bitpesa in Africa since 2013, operating in 3 countries and using the Bitcoin network with Blockchyper but could switch to the Dash network using Blockchyper, already have infrastructure,
(I think we should work on this subject with Bitpesa)

3.1 Bitpesa, has had and has problems with local governments, because of its disruptive model of neogocio and as a company is not yet profitable (4 years).

I'm sorry but I'm going to vote for it, No
 
I liked your co-director, just like the team leader who knows how to give the team the right way and provide everyone with work. We made one calculator, tell me how the developer is, is the product good? ~~link removed~~
 
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IF you can deliver the ability to get hard cash (clean USD) into Zimbabwe as part of the system, you should get widespread adoption.

Getting that much clean USD into Zimbabwe is not a trivial problem to overcome. Tell me about the anticipated problems, and how you plan to overcome those problems.

Since the Zimbabweans practically worship the USD and have (likely) never heard of Dash, why wouldn't they just use your/our network to get USD and never really adopt Dash for it's own sake?

How much Dash branding will be visible and prominent within the network?

Will this system use Dash exclusively, or will other cryptocurrencies be supported, now or in the future?

If we fund this, it seems unlikely that you will have the functional network up and running in 3 or 4 months. Several people have tried to get a comparatively simple dash backed debit card up and running in the US. Nobody has really accomplished that yet. I have to think that it's only more difficult in Zimbabwe than in the U.S. I am open to you convincing me otherwise. How about splitting it up into 6 payments, with clearly defined successes, or at least obvious and objective progress towards the goal for each stage before we move on to the next stage? What would those specific benchmarks be?

You mentioned that you have some private investment money as well as some of your own money in the project. Give me a sense of how much money is coming from you, the private investor(s) and the Dash community.

We have had trouble in the past getting timely progress reports from some proposal winners. What kind of schedule of reports are you planning? To me, I don't really need to get part ownership in the project to go forward with this. But I would like to see a significant penalty for every day that a report deadline is missed.

For various reasons, it is not helpful to just penalize you financially. That just increases the risk that the whole project will fail. But as a discussion starter, let's say the Masternode community gets 2% ownership of the IP and all future profits for every day that a report deadline is missed. And the reports have to be published here on the Dash.org forum so they are easy to find. That would be complex to enforce.

What I am sniffing around for is a penalty that meets 3 criteria; 1. It benefits the Dash community 2. It does not endanger the success of the project and 3. It is painful to you and your team. Be creative.
 
Hi blockchaintech,
I appreciate your comments, but I feel you may be confused on what we are building - let me try to clarify a bit, but one point at a time!

1) I think it is a lot of money, without having guarantees to carry out the project to good purpose, and more in an African country.

1.1) Invent the wheel, making an app based on Copay when DashPay is in the final phase, I consider throwing money and resources.

The Kuvacash project is not the same as Dashpay or Copay. We are in fact built on top of Copay software (using the good work that Chuck and his wallet team have been doing), together with an ATM service network to allow cash-out that is regulated as an ADLA in Zimbabwe. In this way, we can operate legally and bring Dash to as many people in Zimbabwe as possible - I do feel it is a good use of resources to do have people able to use Dash, at reasonable fees and with proper customer support and will help the situation a lot. It is really the only way that our team can get Dash into the hands of the public in a useful way.

2) In Africa, legal security in such businesses, which directly attack banking, does not exist.
Not sure what you mean here? We have costs from security and safety deposit companies that do directly provide the services we require to operate. They also service other companies that manage cash, such as banks, supermarkets, gas stations etc...

3) There is already a precedent called Bitpesa in Africa since 2013, operating in 3 countries and using the Bitcoin network with Blockchyper but could switch to the Dash network using Blockchyper, already have infrastructure,
(I think we should work on this subject with Bitpesa)
Bitpesa is not in Zimbabwe (it only services Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda, and they seem not interested in Zimbabwe) and (partially) uses Bitcoin for remittances not Dash. We are interested in bringing the Dash platform to the African market, starting with where the problem is most acute. We also know we can improve the customer experience and cost structure of mobile payments for Africa with Kuvacash.

3.1 Bitpesa, has had and has problems with local governments, because of its disruptive model of neogocio and as a company is not yet profitable (4 years).
We know that we can provide a service as an ADLA in Zimbabwe - we have all the regulatory requirements at hand and the costs involved, which are very reasonable. We also have a cost and growth model that is very different to Bitpesa - we'll be demonstrating this at our webinar, which will come up when we post the full proposal shortly.

I really do hope you consider these points and can support our proposal, or at least come to the webinar to take a further look!
 
Hi solarguy,
A lot of sensible questions - let me address one-by-one..
IF you can deliver the ability to get hard cash (clean USD) into Zimbabwe as part of the system, you should get widespread adoption.
Yes this is a core part of our proposition, 'Users can always get cash'
It's not difficult to get USD into Zimbabwe, and we can net out and replace dirty bills with our cash replenishment runs. We're going to control our growth and manage our floats (dash/cash) to ensure this proposition is always met. I will cover in detail in our webinar.

Getting that much clean USD into Zimbabwe is not a trivial problem to overcome. Tell me about the anticipated problems, and how you plan to overcome those problems.
The issues are mainly around security - it's not difficult to bring clean cash into Zimbabwe, it just needs to be declared. We also make outbound supplier payments for dash and licensing - much of this framework we have worked out and appears to be within regulation for currency controls at least.

Since the Zimbabweans practically worship the USD and have (likely) never heard of Dash, why wouldn't they just use your/our network to get USD and never really adopt Dash for it's own sake?
Because we are aiming to make USD always available for those who have Dash, and at very reasonable rates. If users can always get cash with Dash (if we deliver on that proposition promise) then Dash will be very popular indeed, for exactly that reason. It will be more convenient to store in Dash than USD in the long run is what we anticipate - and being that Dash is an internationally tradable coin that can be exchanged for USD at any time outside the country (for example, on an exchange) it is also a safe store of value (save for volatility).

How much Dash branding will be visible and prominent within the network?
The Dash brand is essential - we need to ensure people understand that Dash is the underlying internationally tradable token that secures their value/wealth! If we mask this there would be no leverage.

Will this system use Dash exclusively, or will other cryptocurrencies be supported, now or in the future?
We have no plans for this to use anything other than Dash, nor does any other coin have the right features (instantsend in particular) or offer the kind of network support we require (network funding for growth).

If we fund this, it seems unlikely that you will have the functional network up and running in 3 or 4 months. Several people have tried to get a comparatively simple dash backed debit card up and running in the US. Nobody has really accomplished that yet. I have to think that it's only more difficult in Zimbabwe than in the U.S. I am open to you convincing me otherwise. How about splitting it up into 6 payments, with clearly defined successes, or at least obvious and objective progress towards the goal for each stage before we move on to the next stage? What would those specific benchmarks be?
We have a stage-plan that we believe we can execute on, given the funding - I will cover this in the webinar. We won't have anything up and running in 4 months, that would be very ambitious, but at around the 6-month mark we will be going into pilot operations. There are a lot of costs up front, but we believe that if we split payments into three payments, this allows the network to see our professionalism and continue to fund our project. It is a balance between pure escrow and what we need to retain some business independence (as we have option to bring in external investment for certain requirements, eg float/cash or contingencies). We will report on specific stage-plan milestones throughout the entire project - these will be fully covered in the full proposal webinar.

You mentioned that you have some private investment money as well as some of your own money in the project. Give me a sense of how much money is coming from you, the private investor(s) and the Dash community.
We have 50K of our own funding committed, but we also optionally have around 200K from another investor which if required we may access, as above.

We have had trouble in the past getting timely progress reports from some proposal winners. What kind of schedule of reports are you planning? To me, I don't really need to get part ownership in the project to go forward with this. But I would like to see a significant penalty for every day that a report deadline is missed.
We will have monthly webinars to begin with, prior to proposal voting for subsequent months. We will also have reports on milestone events. I'm not sure what you mean by penalties, but at least for the first three months the network can vote to continue to build our funding or not. I agree it is frustrating to see others take a lot of funding and not deliver a single report. All I can say is we intend to keep things completely transparent, all of our reputations are on the line and we intend this to be a project that really does become an important part of the Dash ecosystem.

For various reasons, it is not helpful to just penalize you financially. That just increases the risk that the whole project will fail. But as a discussion starter, let's say the Masternode community gets 2% ownership of the IP and all future profits for every day that a report deadline is missed. And the reports have to be published here on the Dash.org forum so they are easy to find. That would be complex to enforce.
I agree - not sure what you meant by penalties above. I am less inclined to want to focus on enforcement of some penalty, the project needs to be assessed on it's own merits - we are putting a considerable amount of time and our livelihoods on the line, and will want to return to the network in future for other projects. I can only assure you (please also look at my LinkedIn profile, recommendations, projects and that of my project partners) that we intend to apply the utmost professionalism to this project.

What I am sniffing around for is a penalty that meets 3 criteria; 1. It benefits the Dash community 2. It does not endanger the success of the project and 3. It is painful to you and your team. Be creative.
I know what you are saying, but I don't believe development of a Sword of Damocles is really going to help our team what we're aiming to build or focus on. I definitely understand that there are some which have not gone well at all. I have committed a considerable amount of my time and personal funds to Dash (ask Ryan Taylor, I have worked directly with him), both on the strategy side and also with the Kuvacash project. There will be risks, this is an ambitious project. We aim to deliver the highest level of professionalism and transparency, and not only retain but grow our reputation within the community - I hope that this is enough assurance, but of course the network can always vote this either way.
 
"I know what you are saying, but I don't believe development of a Sword of Damocles is really going to help our team what we're aiming to build or focus on. I definitely understand that there are some which have not gone well at all. I have committed a considerable amount of my time and personal funds to Dash (ask Ryan Taylor, I have worked directly with him), both on the strategy side and also with the Kuvacash project. There will be risks, this is an ambitious project. We aim to deliver the highest level of professionalism and transparency, and not only retain but grow our reputation within the community - I hope that this is enough."

I believe you. But having some kind of creative penalty might make the Masternode community more likely to take the risk. And since you are very very determined to give timely, accurate and meaningful progress reports, we will never have to exact the penalty. In a very real sense, the penalty is there for your benefit, so demonstrate how serious you are to the Masternode community. And, it will never happen anyway right?
 
"I know what you are saying, but I don't believe development of a Sword of Damocles is really going to help our team what we're aiming to build or focus on. I definitely understand that there are some which have not gone well at all. I have committed a considerable amount of my time and personal funds to Dash (ask Ryan Taylor, I have worked directly with him), both on the strategy side and also with the Kuvacash project. There will be risks, this is an ambitious project. We aim to deliver the highest level of professionalism and transparency, and not only retain but grow our reputation within the community - I hope that this is enough."

I believe you. But having some kind of creative penalty might make the Masternode community more likely to take the risk. And since you are very very determined to give timely, accurate and meaningful progress reports, we will never have to exact the penalty. In a very real sense, the penalty is there for your benefit, so demonstrate how serious you are to the Masternode community. And, it will never happen anyway right?
Sure just what I am saying is that the penalty is that our reputations are on the line. I am fairly involved in Dash although not very visibly in the forums etc. There is administration of such penalties and the like that opens the door for friction, especially from people who don't want to see this project happen due to their own conflicts of interest/competition with it (and there seem to be a few, I am not at all saying at all that you are one, I know you are not). What I suggest is that there are three of us that have a very personal reputational risk exposed here, and a three month funding schedule over which we can demonstrate our professionalism; this is the compromise I think can work for both sides..does that seem ok?
 
KUVACASH INTERIM UPDATE 001 - 13/10/2017

Thank you to all our supporters in the community continuing to support our proposal for this month. It has been a busy kick-off here at Kuvacash, and we will be updating everyone on our next webinar, which we'll schedule before the end of the month. Two weeks passes very quickly!
James has flown in to Harare, Zimbabwe from Sydney, Australia. Earlier this month we submitted our business registration for Kuvacash in Harare, this is progressing without any problems so far. James is looking to obtain ECORMORS integration documentation, along with performing some other administration on the ground that allow us to start the process for registration as an ADLA in Zimbabwe (see proposal for summary). We also have the following tasks in progress which are a part of ramping up implementation

  • Kuvacash final iconography and brand style guide
  • Kuvacash website to replace the holding page currently at www.kuvacash.com
  • Wireframes and prototype UX for Kuvacash wallet and agent application
  • Business legal structure and jurisdiction for the topco and opco (IP holding/licensing and Operating companies)
  • Engagement and kick-off planning with suppliers and technical/development partners and staff
In summary, all going to plan so far and a lot for us to get on with, but as above we'll provide a more detailed update towards end of the month in the webinar.

Thanks again for your time and support!

Team Kuva,
Drako - James - Steve
 
Не поленился, прочитал самого начало, ребята молодцы конечно идеи превосходны!
Успехов ваших замыслах ;)
 
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