POLL: Dash is "digital cash" or Web3?

[GrandMasterDash]

I think the idea that dash is or could be digital cash is unlikely to happen now. Dash failed to achieve universal acceptance for payments and never truly delivered on fungibility.

Contenders for digital cash or payments is a very small set. At this point it seems grin, litecoin and monero are the only real contenders. Doge and nano can be dismissed as they have no viable solution to fungibility.

I have slowly come to terms that dash has gone the same way as horizen / firo (zencash, zcoin). Giving up on digital cash and pursuing web3 is potentially a very lucrative track but it is undoubtedly disappointing to see.

Under the direction of Mr Westrich, dash is headed for web3 database and storage with enough centralization and willingness to perform content censorship. Dash will effectively be the utility token. Sure, some die-hards here will claim it is still digital cash, but the reality is something different. If dash doesn't want to compete with highly fungible coins then at least fill in some obvious holes, such as bitpay.

I am still struggling with centralization issues of dash and many other PoS coins. It is my observation that the world operates on Just In Time responses. For example, torrents / IPFS are terribly transparent protocols yet they have enough traction to maintain Whac-A-Mole status. In other words, people don't use the best tech, when things go wrong, they simply switch to the next beat option. A balance between getting the job done and enough social mind share.

So, are a few hundred dash nodes enough to defeat international takedowns? - personally, I don't think dash incentives could sustain such an attack. But I digress...

I don't think there is much middle ground here, dash is either digital cash or web3. If dash is web3 then it's entire branding is completely wrong.

 

[AgnewPickens]

My safe word is "digital cash"

 

[qwizzie]

Monero just got their wallet hacked, which is raising questions not only about their security practises but also about the limitations of Monero's privacy tech itself.

6th Nov 2023

Is There a Limit to Monero's Privacy? Crowdfunding Wallet Hack Raises Awkward Questions

Hackers pilfer over $400,000 in XMR from Monero crowdfunding wallet. Moonstone traces XMR flow, exposing limitations in Monero's privacy.

www.ccn.com

20th Nov 2019

Cryptocurrency Monero Website Hacked, Original Binaries Replaced

The website of the Monero open-source cryptocurrency was compromised, and some users downloaded a modified binary that contained malware designed to steal funds from people”s wallets.

www.bitdefender.com

Also Monero transactions are locked for 10 confirmations before users can spend them, directly undermining their digital cash usage and hampering their transactions on the frontend. So i don't consider Monero having a 'digital cash' use case, and their only main use case (privacy) is getting undermined by these hacks that are launched against their website and their wallet.

Grin also only has one use case (privacy) and suffered from a 51% attack in the past (https://shardeum.org/blog/51-attack/#Grin). So i don't consider Grin's network security really that strong. Litecoin has a strong transactions provider use-case and benefits from name recognition and form together with Bitcoin Cash the main competitors to Dash in my view.

Dash currently has a privacy use case (low usage) and a transactions provider use case (low usage). Once Platform is released it can possibly add a web3 use case to that (low usage at start). There just needs to be a focus on marketing all those use cases more clearly and more visibly to users, so those use cases can grow.

Unfortunetely marketing has become Dash weakness over the years, more focused inward and less focused outward. With DCG having only developers these days and not seem willing or able to endeavor into Dash marketing again, combined with the lack of a large independently operating marketing entity*, focused on Dash outreach and Dash marketing, i don't see that changing in the nearby future.

* Dash Marketing Hub is just too small in scale, budget, manpower and focus to be really effective with regards to Dash marketing and Dash outreach in my view.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Yes, heard about the monero wallet hack but I think it could of just as easily happened to another coin.

I believe some monero wallets have a PocketChange feature to mitigate confirmation times. The surprising thing though, when it comes to payments, bitcoiners are totally okay with long confirmation times and high fees, go figure, so I don't suppose it's much of a problem to many monero users. Also, a month or so ago, I tried a monero SPV wallet for the first time ever and it was not a slow or clumsy experience, it just worked tbh. But I'm not going to sing monero praises, just saying it's won a lot of hearts.

I don't know much about the grin attack or if anyone actually lost money, I wouldn't of thought so though because I think it's user base is crazy small. I just mention it because I think the tech side is very straightforward and clever, solving several important issues. It doesn't have the feature set of beam, which makes it more transactional in nature, for now at least.

Beam is definitely a beast but I think it's web3 capabilities overshadow the payment function, which I think is the main problem for any web3 project.

Cosmos might of made a smart move with their nBTC, now if dash had done that!

 

[vazaki3]

Whatever crypto Digital Cash must fail, FIAT money must prevail, thats the goal of the agents. The strategic interest of the agents is to disorientate whatever crypto digital cash, and transform it to web3 bullshits. This is the filthy role of the agents, the same role it is played over here in Dash, with the infamous Dash Platform .

The agents are absorbing all the money of the Dash budget in order to build the DashPlatform stupidity, a centralized scam of 100 nodes (their plan is for a max of 300 nodes to be reached in 10 years!). The agents have ceased the Dash core development almost totally! Have a look at the github-feed in dash discord! It is dead since Oct 11 !!! For a whole month, nothing seems to happen to the core development! But the stupid masternodes keep paying!

Of course there are a lot of jobs to be done into the core. Due to the stubbornness of DCG (which for seven consecutive years insists of deciding all the numbers without asking anyone) I decided to code the "vote the numbers" external application. I did that in order to set the Masternodes free from this slavery that is imposed by the DCG, because I couldn't stand the DCG mockery any longer. The DCG constantly refuses to implement my approach into the core, although the code is already there, since 2017! Not to mention other important fields that should be added as a default into the core, like anonymizing the masternodes.

All the above core development has been ceased, in favor of a centralized web3 scam called Dash Platform. The agents are celebrating their total victory here in Dash. Dash crypto is dead, but I hope that new fresh cryptos will emerge, capable to attack FIAT money and destroy its filthy agents. In this final battle, I think that Dash crypto will be certainly recorded as one of the cryptos that added a corner stone. Dash's unique features and Dash's failure, is a lesson for all the future crypto coins that will emerge. Dash failure teaches, and makes the new crypto generations stronger.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Is 100 / 300 nodes enough? Interpol has a track record of dismantling networks of this size.

I think the web3 angle could be very lucrative but every web3 project I've seen, has it's own token and, imo, this is exactly how it will appear to every noob. No one thinks of Horizen as Zencash, or cash.

 

[qwizzie]

Is 100 / 300 nodes enough

We currently have 84 evonodes on Mainnet, which is rather at the low side.

I think a lot of MNO's are awaiting the successfull activation of the hard fork in either v20.1 or v21, as appearently that is when a part of the masternode blockrewards (37.5%) actually get moved into the Credit Pool and the Asset Unlock Feauture gets activated.

v20 hard fork will activate the asset lock feauture (not sure what it exactly locks at this point, as Credits only start flowing into the Credit Pool with the next hard fork in v20.1 or in v21 (mn_rr)

v20.1 hard fork / v21 hard fork (mn_rr) will activate the asset unlock feauture and appearently also move 37.5% of masternode blockrewards into the Credit Pool and will be used to pay evonodes.

See :

Source : https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/5674/commits/d9d098c91b9fe5c0efb6638b77ce1f0821422416

+

Source : https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/5642

So basically (if i am reading the above accurately) the locking of Credits, flow of Credits into the Credit Pool and the unlocking of Credits is now split over two major updates (v20 & v20.1 / v21), each containing a hard fork. And only the last hard fork (v20.1 or v21) will entice / force MNO's to setup evonodes, to not miss out on a portion of their masternode blockrewards (distributed as Credits to evonodes, to be optionally converted / unlocked as dash).

It is either the above causing MNO's not to update to evonodes, or it is the pure vagueness / subject to change of it all.
Honestly if i knew this all before hand, i don't think i would have setup my evonodes awhile back, as they are just dormant in a sense untill v20.1 or v21 (which could be many many months in the future).

 

[vazaki3]

Although we should not mix the core of cryptocurrencies to web3, some web3 applications can help the governed cryptos to prevent the sybil attacks when decision are made.

"The potential of Web3 extends well beyond reshaping finance in the developed world — it can also be used to foster greater financial inclusion in developing regions and new forms of democratic decision-making. But to allow for greater adoption, the fees to access Web3 services must be linked to local purchasing power. Furthermore, additional voting mechanisms beyond coin voting are needed that operate on the principle of one person, one vote. These considerations pose unique technical challenges for decentralized networks, which Encointer seeks to address."

Introducing Encointer: Making Web3 Truly Inclusive

Encointer is Kusama’s second common-good parachain slot . In this post, we take an in-depth look at Encointer and the problems it addresses — how it can bring financial inclusivity to Web3 and mitigate Sybil attacks with a novel ‘proof-of-personhood’ system for unique identity.

polkadot.network

"The Hard Problem: How Encointer Resists Sybil Attacks#​

But for such a system to work, we need to confront a problem. In a public, unpermissioned network, anyone can join, ensuring accessibility and pseudonymity. But there’s a catch: if anyone can join and everyone is pseudonymous, anyone can join multiple times. This leads to undesirable consequences. For example, an individual could receive their allocation of a digital community token many times under numerous identities. Creating a “unique identity system” or unique proof of personhood is regarded as one of the hard problems↗ of decentralized systems by Vitalik Buterin.
To address this challenge, Encointer takes a novel approach. The protocol↗ stipulates that every participant needs to be willing to prove their personhood at physical key-signing events. Such events are held at regular intervals, take place simultaneously throughout the globe, and involve a randomized gathering of participants at random locations within the agreed geographic boundaries of each community. This requirement to prove personhood and location makes Encointer more secure, ensuring that when a majority of a community is honest, a Sybil attack is not possible.
This mechanism is not only useful for Encointer community tokens: it can also be leveraged by any other Kusama parachain for Sybil defence. For instance, it could be used to establish a faucet↗ that periodically releases tokens to users if they can prove their unique personhood. In this way, the Encointer parachain provides Sybil resistance as a service to the entire Kusama ecosystem (and potentially to Polkadot via cross-network bridge).
Although key signings take place in person, the protocol also involves numerous mechanisms↗ to protect the privacy of users, which is highly important if you can only maintain a single unique identity.
For developing communities, Encointer opens up interesting possibilities. By creating a decentralized, unique identity system that is not reliant on any central authority, it could broaden access to Web3 services. Encointer provides a robust alternative for the many people in the developing world currently excluded from the financial system. Furthermore, by creating localized tokens geared to the purchasing power of communities, Web3 services with fees tailored to the income levels of users can be developed."


Dash should not become web3 in its core, Dash should expel whatever scammer wants to transform it to web3 (as the DashPlatform proponents are currently doing), but Dash should certainly cooperate with whatever web3 app is worthwhile.

VOTE FOR ENCOINTER!

 

[vazaki3]

Is 100 / 300 nodes enough? Interpol has a track record of dismantling networks of this size.

You should not count the current 100 nodes (max) of DashPlatform (or 300 nodes max in 10 years). You should count the individuals. Dash currently has 84 evo nodes, but the individuals hiding behind these 84 nodes are 10-20 according mnowatch's estimations.

10-20 persons are running DashPlatform, imagine how easy it is for Interpol to dismantle such a network. DashPlatform and Decentralization, my ass!

Dash should follow the narrow road, and allow EVO functionality to all the 126 individualities that currently appear in mnowatch, and this only as a temporary measure, until the Dash-Encointer community is established (then the EVO holders will prove their individuality and earn their EVO credentials by hiding among the encointer members). That is the way for decentralization to flourish and for Dash to escape death.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

If dash is "digital cash", then which web3 projects or DAOs are using dash as their base currency? At least with bitcoin, it is now a part of the cosmos inter-blockchain. On which other chains are there wrapped dash? If digital cash is a universal tool then dash is yet to achieve it.

 

[qwizzie]

No Evonode is running Dash Platform currently. Every Evonode is currently just operating as a normal masternode (L1), except it receives 4 masternode payments instead of 1 masternode payment, due to the 4K collateral.

Platform release schedule for Mainnet went from :

Dash Core v19 & Platform v0.24 : activate Dash Platform on Mainnet

to

Dash Core v19 on Mainnet & Platform v0.25 on Testnet : Evonodes on Mainnet limited to just having L1 access (current situation)
Dash Core v20 : Release of Platform to Mainnet & Platform v0.25 release to Mainnet -> Evonodes gain access to both L1 and L2
Dash Core v21 : Focus on Trustless Masternode Shares

to

Dash Core v20 :

ChainLock-based random beacon (not essential and could have been planned for after Platform release)
Treasury expansion (not essential and could have been planned for after Platform release)
Enhanced hard fork (not essential and could have been planned for after Platform release)
Sentinel deprecation (not essential and could have been planned for after Platform release)
Asset lock feature (unused at the looks of it, as no Credits are flowing in the Credit Pool, so there is nothing to lock)
Masternode reward reallocation : dormant untill Dash Core v21 / v20.1 (assuming it is actually in this update)
Asset unlock feature : dormant untill Dash Core v21 / v20.1 (assuming it is actually in this update)
Evonodes still not be able to connect to L2 (Platform)

Dash Core v21 or v20.1 :

Trustless Masternode Shares : postponed to a later Dash Core update
Masternode reward reallocation activation - Credits flow into Credit Pool (mn_rr hard fork activation - essential Platform feaure)
Asset unlock feature activation - Credits can be unlocked for dash (`mn_rr` hard fork activation - essential Platform feature)
Evonodes gain access to both L1 and L2, receiving a portion of the masternode blockrewards and Credits (essential Platform feature)
-
-
-
(other non-essential Platform features that will most likely find their way to Dash Core v21 or v20.1 and cause further delays with Platform release)

Dash Platform v0.25 (maybe even v0.26 by that time) release to Mainnet - essential Platform feature

All in all the priorities of devs have been completely wrong for a long time now. Devs should just have focused on Platform release essential features, but instead they kept adding way too many non-essential features to their Dash Core updates, causing them to run out of time to properly plan the hard forks and test Platform release essential feautures, causing them to postpone certain Platform essential features (Masternode reward reallocation / flow of Credits into Credit Pool and the asset unlock feature). Causing yet another delay with the release of Dash Platform to Mainnet (mid 2024 ?).

It really is messed up and only gives uncertainty to Dash users, Masternode owners & Evonode owners.

 

[vazaki3]

All in all the priorities of devs have been completely wrong for a long time now. Devs should just have focused on Platform release essential features, but instead they kept adding way too many non-essential features to their Dash Core updates, causing them to run out of time to properly plan the hard forks and test Platform release essential feautures, causing them to postpone certain Platform essential features (Masternode reward reallocation / flow of Credits into Credit Pool and the asset unlock feature). Causing yet another delay with the release of Dash Platform to Mainnet (mid 2024 ?).

And the devs will keep doing bullshits, until someone decides to punish the devs for their incompetence and for not keeping the deadlines.

Total absense of accountability has already been the status quo here, everywhere. And the result is hundreds of failed projects and lines of code, EVO being developed for 6 years in javascript and rewritten from scratch, huge delays in code and project timelines, the DIF being invested in valkyrie investmens and 457000 USD lost, e.t.c.

Accountability has never been tried here in Dash. Why dont you give it a chance?

Everyone should be accountable, clauses should be signed and paid in case of failure or delay.
This occurs to all serious businesses.
Let the clowns go, let serious people arrive and help. Lets be serious, at last.

 

[User777]

DASH cannot be defeated, it can be collapsed from within.

 

[vazaki3]

DASH cannot be defeated, it can be collapsed from within.

Dash's death was predestinated since its creation, because it was (and it still is) based on wrong principles.

In the absence of a Web of Trust, in the absense of a strictly defined electorate consisting of real persons, every voting system is flawed. Including the Dash Timocracy of course which is implemented in the budget system, and where we dont know how many masternodes every operator owns.

Dash collapsed from within, because of Sybil Attacks!

Vote the numbers.

VOTE FOR ENCOINTER!

 

[User777]

The top 200 richest addresses in total today
have 3587411 DASH (=3500 masternodes).
They just hold coins and don't put nodes, consequently they have no voice.
In fact they don't care about technology and other DCG developments,
investors want a buy-sell profit.

Aggressive advertising is needed to sell more expensive!
So that every grandmother and every student has a DASH wallet.
Advertising slogan:
Install DASH-wallet and get coins as a gift!

When installing let the wallet already has 0.00006666 DASH.
DCG won't get poor!

 

[GrandMasterDash]

So far (tiny sample), voters are saying dash can be both digital cash and web3, which I believe is impossible in dash's current state. In the moment that dash is web3, the coin will simply be seen as yet-another self-interest utility token. But in any case, if the voters are correct, then the dash website is completely wrong because there is no mention of web3 at all!! Almost all dash messaging is wrong, still stubbornly sticking to the boring "dash is digital cash" slogan. Not on most DEXs, never heard of in some countries! No local fiat pairs in other countries.

Dash is not digital cash, though it has aspired to be so for almost 10 years. Let's be honest and rebrand dash.org.

 

[thephez]

The agents have ceased the Dash core development almost totally! Have a look at the github-feed in dash discord! It is dead since Oct 11 !!! For a whole month, nothing seems to happen to the core development! But the stupid masternodes keep paying!

Always best to go directly to the source and not rely on indirectly getting information from Discord bots: https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pulse/monthly

And so the fact that Core commits to the develop branch rather than directly to the default branch doesn't cause confusion, see the recent commits on the develop branch here. As you can see, Core is alive and actively developed as usual.

 

[Edwardmatthew]

I think the idea that dash is or could be digital cash is unlikely to happen now. Dash failed to achieve universal acceptance for payments and never truly delivered on fungibility.

Contenders for digital cash or payments is a very small set. At this point it seems grin, litecoin and monero are the only real contenders. Doge and nano can be dismissed as they have no viable solution to fungibility.

I have slowly come to terms that dash has gone the same way as horizen / firo (zencash, zcoin). Giving up on digital cash and pursuing web3 is potentially a very lucrative track but it is undoubtedly disappointing to see.

Under the direction of Mr Westrich, dash is headed for web3 database and storage with enough centralization and willingness to perform content censorship. Dash will effectively be the utility token. Sure, some die-hards here will claim it is still digital cash, but the reality is something different. If dash doesn't want to compete with highly fungible coins then at least fill in some obvious holes, such as bitpay.

I am still struggling with centralization issues of dash and many other PoS coins. It is my observation that the world operates on Just In Time responses. For example, torrents / IPFS are terribly transparent protocols yet they have enough traction to maintain Whac-A-Mole status. In other words, people don't use the best tech, when things go wrong, they simply switch to the next beat option. A balance between getting the job done and enough social mind share.

So, are a few hundred dash nodes enough to defeat international takedowns? - personally, I don't think dash incentives could sustain such an attack. But I digress...

I don't think there is much middle ground here, dash is either digital cash or web3. If dash is web3 then it's entire branding is completely wrong.

Your analysis of Dash's shift in focus from digital cash to web3 is thought provoking. How do you think this transition will affect its long-term viability and user trust?

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Your analysis of Dash's shift in focus from digital cash to web3 is thought provoking. How do you think this transition will affect its long-term viability and user trust?

I've yet to understand the finer details of this theory but looking at other web3 projects, I'd say the fiat value of dash may rocket. HOWEVER, this is dependent on a couple of things, neither of which I have high confidence:

1. Dash's website and marketing would have to shift dramatically to reflect dash at the forefront of web3 tech, while also minimizing the "digital cash" angle.

2. DCG doesn't screw-up again, potentially an even larger event than the chain halt.

Note: Elsewhere I have also expressed an opinion that dash could go as low as 14 USD. And I suppose this is still possible if dash fails to gain traction among web3 developers. It is also possible we are at the beginning of a bull market, so you'd have to balance these risks accordingly.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Just to say, I finally did it and updated my portfolios to reflect that dash is no longer "digital cash" and is, in fact, web3. The same as all web3 projects, using it's own utility token to pay for services. Even Dash Platform doesn't use it's own token but instead uses Dash Credits. Sure, there's a technical reason for this but if you can't even use your own token natively...

To be digital cash you'd at least need to be working with all the major DEXs and web3 projects.

I don't know when "evo" will launch, if ever, but someone needs to update the dash.org website in preparation. Not just a few updates on the eve of it's launch. The whole site needs to reflect that this is a cutting edge web3 project. Honestly, no one gives a shit that it is self-proclaimed "your money, your way". No one will care that it will finally join the party with usernames. No one cares that a few people in one US state "live on crypto".

Make the switch, suck in all the independent devs you can, or die. That simple.