Open Bazaar integration - pre-proposal

A

akhavr

Well-known member
Pulled out of here https://dashtalk.org/threads/open-bazaar-integration.2045/page-14#post-92128

1. Display prices in DASH
2. Pay in DASH
3. Handle moderated payments and refunds

Total budget is $4050, payable in DASH and we can fix the price in DASH (~636 at the moment of this post)

1st stage - $1700
2nd stage - $800
3rd stage - $1550

4th stage that will create an option for a direct DASH payments on the OB network is out of the scope of the proposal.

All development will be handled in a 42 Coffee Cups github repository somewhere at http://github.com/42cc/ and will be available for public comment and bashing :)

During development we will try to keep up with the current OB master and will update our changes accordingly.

We will ask for the payment only when the feature is completed and ready for testing. Of course, we can't promise acceptance of our changes to the original OB code.

This approach will allow to add any coin to the OpenBazaar code, as long as it's exchangeable to BTC and from BTC by any automated service like shapeshift.

I'm creating this thread to collect opinions and critic before I'll submit an official proposal.
 
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Slightly off topic: how active is OpenBazaar since it left its beta stage? How many sales, etc.?
 
Thanks a lot akhavr . I have some contacts with OB team. I will try to attract them with this idea and ask if they are interested in integration to their "official" release (I guess it should be extremely attractive, considering that we are developing the solution and funding the work).

If you don't mind, please hold on with the proposal submission until they will share the response.
I will be more than happy to help you with the administrative stuff if necessary.
 
akhavr said:
This approach will allow to add any coin to the OpenBazaar code, as long as it's exchangeable to BTC and from BTC by any automated service like shapeshift.
Click to expand...

This is nice, but it kind of puts DASH in the position of bearing the entire cost while other coins will reap equal benefits. Is there something OpenBazaar can offer to us (like special exposure/promotion) to incentivize us to deliver this general solution to integrate other non-BTC coins with their service?
 
I am still willing to work on this, but unfortunately I have been tied up doing an agonisingly complicated tax return in a country I have never lived in before >< Poland has 3 Bitcoin exchanges but I genuinely have no idea how they function.

After that I am in the UK for a week … talking about Dash!

After that I will come back and:
  1. Recover
  2. Learn Python
  3. Spend my free time working on OB-Dash integration
  4. Move to Prague
Pls queue up unreasonable requests here
 
kot said:
Thanks a lot akhavr . I have some contacts with OB team. I will try to attract them with this idea and ask if they are interested in integration to their "official" release (I guess it should be extremely attractive, considering that we are developing the solution and funding the work).

If you don't mind, please hold on with the proposal submission until they will share the response.
I will be more than happy to help you with the administrative stuff if necessary.
Click to expand...

I had a few exchanges with them about a year ago. I was pushing for Dash/OB integration for a long time ;)

At the time they were very very open to it. The only problem is (like us) they had a small team of volunteer withe zero funding, and the way the OB code is build, it's a very tight integration. They did say they'd be more than happy to merge if this "porting" to Dash ever occurred. But that they simply did not have the manpower for it as it would be a monumental ordeal.

Dash is a great feature for OB because of our anonymity.

To the OP, I would suggest holding back on the proposal too. We're 2 cycles away from v12.1 budgets are running thin.

I have a few questions - I don't understand how nº2 differs from nº4. If you can display in Dash, and pay direct - if I understand correcly - bypassing the OB network, how are disputes handled ?

How fast could you produce some results?
Can you develop this and NOT open the doors to other coins? I'm all in for a healthy crypto-environment, but if Dash is funding this, I'd like to see only Dash benefit from this.

I'm loving that we finally have OB development starting here! Best of luck

.
 
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yidakee said:
To the OP, I would suggest holding back on the proposal too. We're 2 cycles away from v12.1 budgets are running thin.
Click to expand...

I'm not in a rush :)

yidakee said:
I have a few questions - I don't understand how nº2 differs from nº4. If you can display in Dash, and pay direct - if I understand correcly - bypassing the OB network, how are disputes handled ?
Click to expand...

In steps 1-2-3 all payments are done on the bitcoin network. At stage 4 payments between dash users and dash sellers would bypass the bitcoin network and pay directly in dash. Disputes would be handled exactly as on the bitcoin network. I'm sure we can do it, but we didn't dive too deep there.

yidakee said:
How fast could you produce some results?
Click to expand...

I expect 1 month per stage. Could be done faster, but better not :)

yidakee said:
Can you develop this and NOT open the doors to other coins? I'm all in for a healthy crypto-environment, but if Dash is funding this, I'd like to see only Dash benefit from this.
Click to expand...

I doubt it's possible, since proposed stages aren't tied directly to the dash blockchain: all is in the UI, OB code, and 3rd party exchange services like https://shapeshift.io/
 
akhavr said:
In steps 1-2-3 all payments are done on the bitcoin network. At stage 4 payments between dash users and dash sellers would bypass the bitcoin network and pay directly in dash. Disputes would be handled exactly as on the bitcoin network. I'm sure we can do it, but we didn't dive too deep there.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm not getting, maybe I'm just being slow?

In OB, funds are sent to a 2-of-3 multi-sig address. If buyer/seller disagree, moderators get involved to habndle the dispute. In the listing we could invite people to pay with Dash using shapeshift to send BTC to the multi-sig merchant address.

Stage 4 I wouldn't blink to scream yes! I'm just not fully understanding 1,2 and 3.

Sorry if I'm being a ding-dong here, care to explain it little further?

.
 
Before stage (4) would fly (not technically, but be really useful), we have to have enough dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network. Right now there's no way to achieve this.

So, to get to this point, we're planning to do 3 preliminary stages:

1. Let DASH as a user-selected currency in to the OB client.
2. Pay in DASH when seller and buyer agree on non-moderated purchase.
3. Handle moderated payments and refunds correctly.

BTW, I've forgot when (and if) we'll have a dash seller in the process, so I'll talk with the team and may update the proposal.

At the end of this, we would have dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network, trading goods with each other with an added cost of DASH->BTC->DASH conversion. Only at this point we would be able to transfer to pure DASH->DASH network and users won't notice it much, since it would feel just like an "optimization" for them.

Did I answer your questions?

Feel free to ask: I've created the thread with the intent to gauge the interest and put a light on weak spots in the proposal.

Upd. We've missed the seller part, because were focused on a client side. Will update the proposal or push this to the 4th stage.
 
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TroyDASH said:
This is nice, but it kind of puts DASH in the position of bearing the entire cost while other coins will reap equal benefits. Is there something OpenBazaar can offer to us (like special exposure/promotion) to incentivize us to deliver this general solution to integrate other non-BTC coins with their service?
Click to expand...
I think this a good point, so let me add a stupid question- how doable would it be to code any solution so altcoins have to go via dash (automatically using shapeshift or whatever) to use this solution? So for example LTC->Dash->btc if they want to piggyback on our code. I'm not a coder so like I say this may be daft but would provide increased dash tx and keep the altcoiners happy-ish. Looking forward to hearing why this won't work
 
methusaleh said:
I think this a good point, so let me add a stupid question- how doable would it be to code any solution so altcoins have to go via dash (automatically using shapeshift or whatever) to use this solution? So for example LTC->Dash->btc if they want to piggyback on our code. I'm not a coder so like I say this may be daft but would provide increased dash tx and keep the altcoiners happy-ish. Looking forward to hearing why this won't work
Click to expand...

This could be implemented within this proposal, but since code is open source, this could be easily modified by any developer.

Besides, we would have to know the list of supported altcoins and this likely will increase a budget for the proposal
 
akhavr said:
Before stage (4) would fly (not technically, but be really useful), we have to have enough dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network. Right now there's no way to achieve this.

So, to get to this point, we're planning to do 3 preliminary stages:

1. Let DASH as a user-selected currency in to the OB client.
2. Pay in DASH when seller and buyer agree on non-moderated purchase.
3. Handle moderated payments and refunds correctly.

BTW, I've forgot when (and if) we'll have a dash seller in the process, so I'll talk with the team and may update the proposal.

At the end of this, we would have dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network, trading goods with each other with an added cost of DASH->BTC->DASH conversion. Only at this point we would be able to transfer to pure DASH->DASH network and users won't notice it much, since it would feel just like an "optimization" for them.

Did I answer your questions?

Feel free to ask: I've created the thread with the intent to gauge the interest and put a light on weak spots in the proposal.

Upd. We've missed the seller part, because were focused on a client side. Will update the proposal or push this to the 4th stage.
Click to expand...

1 - got it
2 - got it - though this can be done moderated outside the OB network. This is essencial, otherwise all hell will break loose.
3 - To handle moderated payments and refunds correctly, you need 2 of 3 multi-sig processing built into OB, which is precisely what is described in stage 4

Still trying to figure this out.

.
 
akhavr said:
This could be implemented within this proposal, but since code is open source, this could be easily modified by any developer.

Besides, we would have to know the list of supported altcoins and this likely will increase a budget for the proposal
Click to expand...
Yes I thought the open source aspect made it tough to make exclusively Dash without giving every alt out there a free lunch. Oh well
 
I would like to suggest a "quality" that any solution should have: it should signal to the seller that the buyer wants to pay in Dash. Anything that goes through a third party and hits the existing Bitcoin code with a Bitcoin payment is destroying the signal that the buyer was holding Dash.

My interest in getting involved in OpenBazaar-Dash integration came from two sides:
  • OB could start a revolution in trade, but could be crippled if the Bitcoin network capacity is remains constrained, i.e. OB transaction fees depend on decisions being made by Bitcoin Core
  • I believe Dash is a superior currency to Bitcoin but needs a compelling place to spend it if it is to be useful as cash, and this is most high profile trade system where I feel I can make a contribution
So, to my mind, it is at least as important that the solution conveys the signal "people want to spend Dash" to merchants as it is to let buyers spend it. In the case of a fee event in Bitcoin, merchants may then think think: "Bitcoin isn't working like it used to, but instead of switching to the Lightning Network, I'll switch to Dash instead. I've seen that (potential) customers value it as a form of money, so I will use that instead".

(The converse case of signalling to buyers that sellers want Dash else exists, but I imagine there are more Dash holders wanting to spend Dash on OpenBazaar, than OpenBazaar merchants who currently want to receive Dash.)

Any thoughts on how this idea fits in?
 
yidakee said:
3 - To handle moderated payments and refunds correctly, you need 2 of 3 multi-sig processing built into OB, which is precisely what is described in stage 4
Click to expand...

At this point we will still require buyer to have a BTC account, so we would be able to reuse BTC multisig in the OB.
 
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