November 2015 Budget Proposal

[Icebucket]

Sorry if this comes out like i am Scrooge McDuck. But I just did a quick search on agoda.com,
found 9 hotels, 5stars for under 100$
In the safest areas of Mexico City, Chapultepec-Polanco and the Historic City Center

The cheapest one was 52$ per person per room .. still 5 stars

Here is the link http://www.agoda.com/pages/agoda/de...-12-06&city=2086&tick=635817218965#mapsClosed

 

[the-baker]

Hi the-baker, you have some valid questions and that is why this system is good, it keeps things transparent right away. There are some key points that need to be understood, the first and most important one is that we are going to Mexico City. I don't know if you have ever been there, I have, and it is fair to say it is not a safe city. You need to be careful there, stay in good areas and proper hotels. So security is a priority since we all should agree we want to keep Evan safe and that is a determinant factor for us.

I haven't been to Mexico City yet, but if all goes well, I'll be there in January, so I guess then I can see for myself

But I can make the same Airbnb query for Miami in January: A room for two people/three nights (with ocean view no less..) is listed as 240 total. and that's not the cheapest one, simply the first one in the list. That's 20% of the hotel budget proposed above. I can understand that you don't want people to sleep in shabby youth hostels, and no one is expecting them to do so. But I still find the expenses too high considering the current state of the project/virtual corporation

 

[GermanRed+]

that was a bit last minute before Amsterdam, last minute is never cheap.
but we will use these slides (or variations of them) for a long time (all coming presentations / conferences)

I once printed a poster outside the hotel and it wasn't cheap at all. If it is the last minute thing, it is very justifiable.

 

[Minotaur]

I haven't been to Mexico City yet, but if all goes well, I'll be there in January, so I guess then I can see for myself

But I can make the same Airbnb query for Miami in January: A room for two people/three nights (with ocean view no less..) is listed as 240 total. and that's not the cheapest one, simply the first one in the list. That's 20% of the hotel budget proposed above. I can understand that you don't want people to sleep in shabby youth hostels, and no one is expecting them to do so. But I still find the expenses too high considering the current state of the project/virtual corporation

I think you are still missing the point a bit, Dash is not yet an entity that is sending people to travel and paying their expenses. Dash is a project that is asking people to take their credit cards and pay for travel and to take a token in exchange that may be valuable or not in the future.

 

[David]

Hi the-baker, you have some valid questions and that is why this system is good, it keeps things transparent right away. There are some key points that need to be understood, the first and most important one is that we are going to Mexico City. I don't know if you have ever been there, I have, and it is fair to say it is not a safe city. You need to be careful there, stay in good areas and proper hotels. So security is a priority since we all should agree we want to keep Evan safe and that is a determinant factor for us.

Second and also important, we are paying these things with our credit cards, my bank does not take Dash yet, so all we are hoping for is to at least get refunded in Dash. Dash that we will of course hold, because if we did not want to hold it why go to a conference to talk about it in the first place. Anyone that organizes an event and travels for Dash to make an official presentation should expect the same, to be refunded at least for flight and hotel. What we are not doing is taking Dash to sell it to fund initiatives, no. We are funding initiatives with FIAT and expecting to at least be refunded in Dash, which is a completely different thing.

I hope this helps clarify.

Agreed. As soon as I saw "held in Mexico City" then the "Why not use airbnb" my immediate thought was "Do you WANT our core developers to get kidnapped???"

Secondly, with all due respect, F*** the trolls. I'm pretty sure haters gonna hate, no matter what.

 

[the-baker]

I think you are still missing the point a bit, Dash is not yet an entity that is sending people to travel and paying their expenses. Dash is a project that is asking people to take their credit cards and pay for travel and to take a token in exchange that may be valuable or not in the future.

I get that. People front the money out of their own pocket and are then compensated by stock options (in a manner of speaking). What I'm saying is that this shouldn't be taken as a carte blanche. And I'm not accusing anyone of exploiting their privileges, I'm just pointing out that there are cheaper options that could be taken into consideration. Which means people have to front less money, there's no harm in that as far as I can see

 

[GermanRed+]

that was a bit last minute before Amsterdam, last minute is never cheap.
but we will use these slides (or variations of them) for a long time (all coming presentations / conferences)

I once printed a poster outside the hotel and it wasn't cheap at all. If it is the last minute thing, it is very justifiable.

I think you are letting the trolls get to your head as there are no DASH "pre-mined" by the developers. There was fast mining at the beginning but those coins went to anyone that was there at the time not in particular to Evan who holds a modest amount, to be honest, given his role. None of the people in the team are even miners I have never mined in my life other than with Butterfly Labs ASICS I lost money on.

So the budget system is necessary and a blessing because it allows to do more for Dash, fund things and actually at least get the coins. The other option would be to ask people to sponsor initiatives that benefit everyone and not even get a refund in coins. We tried that route and it does not work, it is clear that since September more things are starting to happen. Like any business venture, this one carries risk, but at least we did not sit idle to wait for things to magically happen. We are going out there to make things happen, the governance and funding system was a very smart and progressive move. It gives us an actual chance to do things and it gives the opportunity to anyone that wants to help fund things to get the coins back as a thank you.

They did not get into my mind. I just think even if it is "pre-mined", it is not the end of DASH. Look at what other altcoins are doing. The only others that caught my eyes are Ethereum and Ripple. However, the Ripple gateway does not make too much sense after I thought it thorough. The backing of a property is not going to help because you will have to trust that gateway and it also means your gateway created coins has no value because its value is backed by another property. That changes nothing from what we have today: centralization and no control when things get ugly at the gateway. Ethereum looks nice but there is nothing on Ethereum that we cannot have on DASH. (Correct me if I am wrong here.)

I am totally fine with Evan holding a modest amount. What kind of value does DASH have if even the creator does not want to get a hold of them? If he does not hold DASH, I will not want to hold any DASH. I am just saying that "pre-miners" (just use the troll's term to discuss here) who are not developers and happen to be lucky to mine so many coins at the beginning can contribute some back to the project development. Even a small amount would be a good sign to show how much our DASH community care about the value of DASH.

 

[GermanRed+]

BTW, I may not be making any sense here today. I was just posting something from my heart which is quite messy these days.

 

[GermanRed+]

Perhaps, we can have some volunteer to book the hotel and arrange the flight for the guys who are going to the conference. More like acting as a financial officer, accountant and/or secretary.

 

[GermanRed+]

Agreed. As soon as I saw "held in Mexico City" then the "Why not use airbnb" my immediate thought was "Do you WANT our core developers to get kidnapped???"

Secondly, with all due respect, F*** the trolls. I'm pretty sure haters gonna hate, no matter what.

My next thought would be "Can we pay the kidnappers ransom in DASH?".

 

[Minotaur]

I get that. People front the money out of their own pocket and are then compensated by stock options (in a manner of speaking). What I'm saying is that this shouldn't be taken as a carte blanche. And I'm not accusing anyone of exploiting their privileges, I'm just pointing out that there are cheaper options that could be taken into consideration. Which means people have to front less money, there's no harm in that as far as I can see

Totally get it and I do agree with you, it will totally be a case by case analysis. For these shows we are going to stay in the same place as the rest of the speakers of the event. I see those as our main target, they are people that are in the industry have money to invest and could be potential Dash investors. Meeting with them in the lobby and outside of the trade show itself is just a lot easier if we are in the same place they are staying.

 

[bertlebbert]

I think you are still missing the point a bit, Dash is not yet an entity that is sending people to travel and paying their expenses. Dash is a project that is asking people to take their credit cards and pay for travel and to take a token in exchange that may be valuable or not in the future.

With OTC liquidity, why can't the budget reimburse with BTC or fiat - immediately, or even prior to the expense, unless people prefer to be reimbursed with Dash?

 

[Minotaur]

With OTC liquidity, why can't the budget reimburse with BTC or fiat - immediately, or even prior to the expense, unless people prefer to be reimbursed with Dash?

Because part of the OTC liquidity is people accepting to take expenses for Dash and part of it is people actually surfacing that want to buy coins. I would say it is about 50/50 at the moment. So people stepping up that are willing to take an expense on behalf of Dash is a big part of our OTC "liquidity".

 

[bertlebbert]

Because part of the OTC liquidity is people accepting to take expenses for Dash and part of it is people actually surfacing that want to buy coins. I would say it is about 50/50 at the moment. So people stepping up that are willing to take an expense on behalf of Dash is a big part of our OTC "liquidity".

Ah, okay... I was under the impression that 'liquidity' meant actual buy orders for Dash.

 

[fernando]

Totally get it and I do agree with you, it will totally be a case by case analysis. For these shows we are going to stay in the same place as the rest of the speakers of the event. I see those as our main target, they are people that are in the industry have money to invest and could be potential Dash investors. Meeting with them in the lobby and outside of the trade show itself is just a lot easier if we are in the same place they are staying.

Also, you two are only asking for flight + hotel. When you are travelling you spend much more than at home for many other things (food, transportation, communication...) and you are not being reimbursed for that. Add to that a few coins to send to people so they try Dash, and put some value on your time.

I understand that travelling for Dash seems like a super treat, but it isn't. This doesn't mean that it is not fun or interesting, only that it is expensive for the people doing it even with the budget proposal. I don't know the final numbers of those of you that went to Amsterdam, but I know mine when I travelled to present at the Barcelona Bitcoin Meetup (we didn't have proposals in May, but the community donated 100 DASH to cover train ticket and hotel for the night) and in the end I happily had to cover most of the expense (I did a giveaway at the event), as you will cover many expenses in the proposed travels. I will vote yes :smile:

 

[David]

The scale of the budgeting system staggers me. Think about it--if we had Bitcoin's marketcap, we'd have about $6 million per month to spend on improving Dash, advertising, funding worthy developers of apps or other things within the ecosystem...

This thing is going to really snowball one day, and I can't wait to be along for the ride.

P.S. Masternode owners: at that valuation, your nodes would be worth $775,000 each. Just sayin'.

 

[jpr]

Sorry if this comes out like i am Scrooge McDuck. But I just did a quick search on agoda.com,
found 9 hotels, 5stars for under 100$
In the safest areas of Mexico City, Chapultepec-Polanco and the Historic City Center

The cheapest one was 52$ per person per room .. still 5 stars

Here is the link http://www.agoda.com/pages/agoda/default/DestinationSearchResult.aspx?asq=7ylWkWYo99jpLRsOqDXpOquFXop8ZUBQ9JpKriN4RLYW4dX6kzw8/WPUmnWNBJtS3itcAlP2YcG4LT2dT/f0CZ5P3/r/2qN+cAwcN8JgfLf/6RG8E3mdoqVht3ouVAVTGhFWJjuPBKCd7lL126SU0MbPY0yGYPMjnqbDwTedRvA49TbH512mDPm7KtN2IoPD&checkin=2015-12-03&checkout=2015-12-06&city=2086&tick=635817218965#mapsClosed

I would like to bump this!

 

[camosoul]

I hadn't even read this when I already read over at coindesk (yeah, I goof that derp hole) that Evan was going to Mexico? Are you fucking kidding me? With all the sad bagholders who would kill to make this project fail just to keep their shitcoins from tanking (more)? Mexico may be the most corrupt, most violent place on Earth! Someone as valuable as Evan? Someone who is such a huge threat to not just the existing government and drug cartels which are allied in Mexico, but the cryptotard animals that'll do anything and can pay... It's hard NOT to find someone willing to kill for peanuts in Mexico. They'll do it just because they're bored... Drive him around in an armored truck if you absolutely must go there!

 

[camosoul]

Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's

But when the bastard gets greedy, stab him to death on the senate floor!

Modern version, shoot him in the face with a gun you made using stuff you bought with DASH!

 

[camosoul]

Sorry if this comes out like i am Scrooge McDuck. But I just did a quick search on agoda.com,
found 9 hotels, 5stars for under 100$
In the safest areas of Mexico City, Chapultepec-Polanco and the Historic City Center

The cheapest one was 52$ per person per room .. still 5 stars

Here is the link http://www.agoda.com/pages/agoda/default/DestinationSearchResult.aspx?asq=7ylWkWYo99jpLRsOqDXpOquFXop8ZUBQ9JpKriN4RLYW4dX6kzw8/WPUmnWNBJtS3itcAlP2YcG4LT2dT/f0CZ5P3/r/2qN+cAwcN8JgfLf/6RG8E3mdoqVht3ouVAVTGhFWJjuPBKCd7lL126SU0MbPY0yGYPMjnqbDwTedRvA49TbH512mDPm7KtN2IoPD&checkin=2015-12-03&checkout=2015-12-06&city=2086&tick=635817218965#mapsClosed

Not so much scrooge, as perspective. Many people in the world are used to just barely scraping by. I'm not going to discuss why. But it's a fact.

This is a demonstration of the self-governance capacity of DASH.

How many clonecoin fanboys use the word "we?" Exactly what do they do? What is their contribution? How do they influence anything? Who is this "we" they keep talking about?

In DASH, there really is a "we." Every one of the MN operators has a say. WE decide what gets funded. Not a bickering panel of subversive wannabe nerds who really do not understand what they're tinkering with. DASH is where the smart money already is. That smart money is the "we" that actually exists, and is deciding the future.

Why not present that demonstration in style? If you're gonna do it. DO IT!

Especially if Evan's Brain, the most precious cargo any conveyance has ever carried, is involved. If he must go to Mexico, spare no expense! Miami is pretty suck, too. I would never go there intentionally. Unless I was to serve as one of Evan's body guards. ;-)

You're scraping by every month. I understand. you count pennies. You choose Ramen over Steak. I still do it, but mostly by choice and the fact that I like the simple life. This isn't about being ultra frugal. this is about showing the world that we've got what every other coin doesn't, and we've got it in spades.

We, the MN operators, are happy to shell out our earnings, via our built-in governance, to send our Cult Leader who invented that very functionality on fancy trips! We can do that! Watch me vote! I'm going to go be part of "we" and vote now! No power in the 'verse can stop me! And Evan made it so. I have no problem putting that amazing awesomeness on display for all to see!

This isn't about what it costs. It's about what makes the scene. It's about showing up in crypto style. I could hitch hike to Vegas and camp in a tent. But, if the lead developer of the most awesome thing to happen to money has to rent a used Yugo and spend his own money to just barely afford a Motel 6 for him and his woman... No. That's not good enough. It's not credible. People ask "If it's so great, why is he dressed like a homeless bum and gate crashing the 'free continental breakfast' at a hotel he can't even afford to stay at?" Does that inspire confidence?

Doesn't Scrooge McDuck have a diving board in his vault, and swim around in giant piles of money? So, lets look like it. Because we can.

Is this what frugality looks like?

If this guy told you he solved all the problems that money has suffered since the beginning of time, including the problems that "brand new" crypto currency has, would you take him seriously: