Mint-Gox
- Thread starter TanteStefana
- Start date
YOU are the talent, the rest is just coding know how. Most programmers aren't so creative as to be able to find the solution (though they can certainly find the issues!) With the logic situated, a coder should be able to do that part pretty easily. I'm going to try to start a flow chart (IF I find the time, busy day ahead!) and then maybe we can all resolve the issues we see?
And there is a whole lot of programmer talent out there. When they discover what we're trying to do, they'll step up to the plate, I'm sure!!!
And there is a whole lot of programmer talent out there. When they discover what we're trying to do, they'll step up to the plate, I'm sure!!!
I usually hang out at the bitcointalk forum, but I also hold DRK and follow it keenly - can't afford a MN yet though. When I signed up here, It seemed like a good idea to use a different forum name because of privacy issues, but now I'm not so sure - it complicates continuity. Since I am a newb here I am not allowed to post links, so please forgive the shorthand below.
I'm posting this in response to a bitcointalk suggestion by thelonecrouton:
I can't post the link details but I can apparently mention the topic: topic=421615.msg9233774#msg9233774
Anyway, fwiw, I have been trying to follow/understand the Automated Transactions thread at bitcointalk as it seems to address the kinds of issues discussed here.
I can't post the link details but I can apparently mention the topic: topic=822100.0
Does everyone (but me) already know all about AT stuff? Is it relevant or useful for DRK purposes? How does it relate (if at all) to tungfa's proposal? Thanks for any clarification you can offer.
I'm posting this in response to a bitcointalk suggestion by thelonecrouton:
I can't post the link details but I can apparently mention the topic: topic=421615.msg9233774#msg9233774
Anyway, fwiw, I have been trying to follow/understand the Automated Transactions thread at bitcointalk as it seems to address the kinds of issues discussed here.
I can't post the link details but I can apparently mention the topic: topic=822100.0
Does everyone (but me) already know all about AT stuff? Is it relevant or useful for DRK purposes? How does it relate (if at all) to tungfa's proposal? Thanks for any clarification you can offer.
This all sounds amazing!
I agree with TanteStefana, we need to be able to attract new developers, even if it is just for projects that only touch Darkcoin tangently. Now that we are open source I think it is gonna be easier. In fact, we have already attracted someone who is working again in the electrum wallet. I don't tag him here because he's quite busy and he's gonna take his time, so I don't want to put pressure, but he's posted on the electrum thread. For projects that may have some revenue associated it should be easier because it solves the problem of lack of compensation.
I haven't read all the information on this thread yet, but I think we should focus on projects/ideas with developers (like the Austrian guys). For many of them having a small but committed community, like ours, can be great to test things. Getting good testers in the Bitcoin community is not that easy because there are so many active projects going on. In our case, if someone included Darkcoin from the beginning in an important project I'm sure they can count with a couple dozen people helping.
I agree with TanteStefana, we need to be able to attract new developers, even if it is just for projects that only touch Darkcoin tangently. Now that we are open source I think it is gonna be easier. In fact, we have already attracted someone who is working again in the electrum wallet. I don't tag him here because he's quite busy and he's gonna take his time, so I don't want to put pressure, but he's posted on the electrum thread. For projects that may have some revenue associated it should be easier because it solves the problem of lack of compensation.
I haven't read all the information on this thread yet, but I think we should focus on projects/ideas with developers (like the Austrian guys). For many of them having a small but committed community, like ours, can be great to test things. Getting good testers in the Bitcoin community is not that easy because there are so many active projects going on. In our case, if someone included Darkcoin from the beginning in an important project I'm sure they can count with a couple dozen people helping.
I think Minotaur has already written their ceo about that.
They are Danish but they have translated their platform to Russian to work that market. I guess this is some problem with the language handling.
TsuyokuNaritai
Active member
Nemo's post with links added to save readers' fiddling thus reducing their inertial resistance to following the links:
Would a bounty help?
always and i am ready to do a fundraiser for a bounty if we had a C++ step up !
how much bounty ? i have the felling that QT wallet got a lot of work already and is nearly done , but i really do not know ... so i dot wanna put 1000 DRK out there for something with is easy to do !
anybody knows how much work is needed ?
anybody knows how much work is needed ?
Rather than crowdfund, or maybe I'm mistaking that system we used for the logo for all crowd funding, but maybe instead we do a bounty. The developer/s could combine efforts and share it if necessary. I hate to see several groups working at cross purposes to make it, it would be better for everyone to work as a team somehow. But then competition is the capitalistic way.....
OK, the other choice is that whatever the system is, it should pay the developer a percentage of the product's income. The reason I like this idea is that it will set a precedence where any developer could expect to make an income by developing things for the Darkcoin network. Have I already said this? Sorry if it's repeat. But, we want developers to know there is a consumer base here for them to develop for. If the project, such as this one would be, is of such high usefulness to the community, it can become an "official" add on. If the project is more on the service side, I don't know what kind of project, but then it could be something served up by masternode owners who like the idea, but it would be optional.
Anyway, I hope more programmers step up to the plate, and there are so many people in the community with wonderful ideas and insights, one can really see there is no limit to DRK and the Dark network. We also might get Evan yet. I mean, he is getting close to solving all the issues with Darkcoin basics, And his first year with us isn't even over yet! What's left after instant transactions and balancing out the masternode/miner network? I'd say dark-iris (or whatever we came up with, LOL) and dark exchange personally
OK, the other choice is that whatever the system is, it should pay the developer a percentage of the product's income. The reason I like this idea is that it will set a precedence where any developer could expect to make an income by developing things for the Darkcoin network. Have I already said this? Sorry if it's repeat. But, we want developers to know there is a consumer base here for them to develop for. If the project, such as this one would be, is of such high usefulness to the community, it can become an "official" add on. If the project is more on the service side, I don't know what kind of project, but then it could be something served up by masternode owners who like the idea, but it would be optional.
Anyway, I hope more programmers step up to the plate, and there are so many people in the community with wonderful ideas and insights, one can really see there is no limit to DRK and the Dark network. We also might get Evan yet. I mean, he is getting close to solving all the issues with Darkcoin basics, And his first year with us isn't even over yet! What's left after instant transactions and balancing out the masternode/miner network? I'd say dark-iris (or whatever we came up with, LOL) and dark exchange personally
Rather than crowdfund, or maybe I'm mistaking that system we used for the logo for all crowd funding, but maybe instead we do a bounty. The developer/s could combine efforts and share it if necessary. I hate to see several groups working at cross purposes to make it, it would be better for everyone to work as a team somehow. But then competition is the capitalistic way.....
OK, the other choice is that whatever the system is, it should pay the developer a percentage of the product's income. The reason I like this idea is that it will set a precedence where any developer could expect to make an income by developing things for the Darkcoin network. Have I already said this? Sorry if it's repeat. But, we want developers to know there is a consumer base here for them to develop for. If the project, such as this one would be, is of such high usefulness to the community, it can become an "official" add on. If the project is more on the service side, I don't know what kind of project, but then it could be something served up by masternode owners who like the idea, but it would be optional.
Anyway, I hope more programmers step up to the plate, and there are so many people in the community with wonderful ideas and insights, one can really see there is no limit to DRK and the Dark network. We also might get Evan yet. I mean, he is getting close to solving all the issues with Darkcoin basics, And his first year with us isn't even over yet! What's left after instant transactions and balancing out the masternode/miner network? I'd say dark-iris (or whatever we came up with, LOL) and dark exchange personally
Good point tante
I send an email to Evan regarding this thread, the ideas, and such ... as i believe we need a "professional" to have a look at this and tell us (as a community) if we are on the right track and how to approach this.
regarding a Developer getting a percentage, good point, but we gotta check with the management about this, as I believe all of this is still Evan's project and we do not want to get ahead of ourself or him !
I hope he replies to me soon, or even better posts here !
Yah, he takes Sundays off usually, so it wouldn't be surprising not to hear from him until tomorrow (well, he's one hour ahead of me, and it's 1:35AM here now
) Hopefully we'll hear from him in a day or so Thanks for asking him 
I get confused with time zones. I mean, my wife is in Singapore at the moment where it is 1830. I'm in London where it is 1130. Why can't she send me sports results from the future so we can make some money?
LOL, I actually forgot when I wrote that, that it was Saturday not Sunday, LOL. That's how flaky I am!
Cofresí
Member
Nemo, I didn't know about ATs and I'm very grateful you came here and told us about this exciting stuff. They indeed are an ingenious creation and do have innovative potential for the crypto world.
So the short answer to your question is: yes.
The slightly longer and more technical answer is: I advise against using them, because
1. they add an additional layer of complexity to the system,
2. would take up much more development time just to implement and test everything thoroughly to make them available for our use case in the first place,
3. they carry the potential danger of bloating the blockchain in the long run, and
4. they are not really necessary to build a decentralised exchange, because we have something much better: the masternodes. How is that? See my next post.
It's not too easy to wrap one's head around how Automated Transactions work but to quickly explain at least how I understood the concept and how they could be used, here's the gist:
ATs are "automated transactions", real executable computer programs, byte code, that are put into the blockchain as a special data transaction with OP_RETURN. Think of someone putting a computer program into the blockchain instead of the odd picture of Nelson Mandela, Valentine's day messages or their marriage contract, and then this code is actually executed by the decentralised crypto system.
If I understood the concept correctly the code should be executed by the miners mining the transaction with the AT and checking its state and then updating the latter. But I'm not totally sure how it should work exactly. What's funny and scary at the same time is that they're supposed to do actual currency transactions. Interesting. They have their own address scheme and funds can be sent to them and their code can distribute those funds. In the case of darkcoin their byte code interpreter could be hosted inside the masternodes for quicker and more stable execution. E.g. One chosen execution masternode, aka the executioner, would look up the blockchain for new AT transactions, and in case he found any execute their code. A system could be developed where this process could even be checked by a set of peer masternodes which supervise the execution of the executioner and vote if everything is green or something's fishy. In case the executioner messed up, at least the transactions should be made reversible and the execution masternode banned for life. Or executed.
Some checking mechanism like that would need to be in place, because the byte code interpreter, which executes the AT's instructions, could be changed by anybody messing around with the host masternode's code.
What could make them interesting for our use case of a distributed currency exchange: ATs can be used to implement what is called atomic cross chain trading. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading
Ian Knowles, the inventor of ATs, set up a bounty to do just that: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826263.0
A simplified version of the crowdfunding AT http://ciyam.org/at/at_crowdfund.html would be a candidate to do such a atomic cross chain exchange using just ATs and TierNolans algo https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193281.msg2224949#msg2224949.
Could be a fun thing to play around, but I think we really shouldn't take any risk with experimental stuff and because at this point who can really say what this would entail for the security and stability of the darkcoin network: they might be a Pandora's box. But definitely a cool idea.
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