Looks like MasterNodes and Miners are taking a stand...

[stan.distortion]

You're making excuses. DASH has a non-centralized way to handle this but fails to do so.

It shouldn't take 6 weeks. It shouldn't take 4 weeks. It shouldn't take 2 weeks.

Fxing internet, the age of instant gratification What if DCG group took a fit of madness and released a AML/KYC-friendly everything-tracking client? Taking time over upgrade decisions might not be a bad thing.

 

[jarroyo]

I made a post before concerning a similar manner which didn't get much response so i'll repeat my thoughts here since the audience is more relevant now.

Could we perhaps incentivize miners to update by temporarily increasing their block reward percentage from 45% to some higher figure for the first X amount of blocks in a new software version? Its a simple solution but perhaps miners would hop at the chance to upgrade and mine blocks on the upgraded version if we did things that way

 

[camosoul]

I made a post before concerning a similar manner which didn't get much response so i'll repeat my thoughts here since the audience is more relevant now.

Could we perhaps incentivize miners to update by temporarily increasing their block reward percentage from 45% to some higher figure for the first X amount of blocks in a new software version? Its a simple solution but perhaps miners would hop at the chance to upgrade and mine blocks on the upgraded version if we did things that way

NO!

Use stick, not carrot.

Grow a pair, flog bad actors.

This is probably telemetry error represented by:

if
version == 0.13.0.0
and
protocol == 70213
add to graph

instead of

if
version >= 0.13.0.0
and
protocol == 70213
add to graph

 

[TroyDASH]

NO!

Use stick, not carrot.

Grow a pair, flog bad actors.

This is probably telemetry error represented by:

if
version == 0.13.0.0
and
protocol == 70213
add to graph

instead of

if
version >= 0.13.0.0
and
protocol == 70213
add to graph

I think it's random variation due to the low sample size of the 1-hour time window. +/- 30% swings are normal when there are only 24 blocks to look at.

Here it is 2 hours later

 

[flare]

I think it's random variation due to the low sample size of the 1-hour time window. +/- 30% swings are normal when there are only 24 blocks to look at.

Here it is 2 hours later

Yup, small sample size + variance. I don't even look at the 1h moving average line

 

[TroyDASH]

Yup, small sample size + variance. I don't even look at the 1h moving average line

I think there's something wonky though always with the last data point on that chart, it's like the data points on the 1-hour before that are smoothed over with larger samples but the last one is always spiking up or down every time you refresh.

 

[flare]

I think there's something wonky though always with the last data point on that chart, it's like the data points on the 1-hour before that are smoothed over with larger samples but the last one is always spiking up or down every time you refresh.

It's the small sample size plus the chart updating each 30mins - and not each hour. This makes the 1h datapoint jitter up and down during the hour.

1h MA --> last 23 blocks --> 1 block is +/- 4.5% So if we have a streak of 4 non-signalled blocks the datapoint will be 13.5% lower than the one before.

24h MA --> last 554 blocks --> 1 block is +/- 0.18% So if the have a streak of 4 non-signalled blocks the datapoint will be just 0.5% lower.

Anyway: All large pools are on v0.13.0+ now, totalling 92% of hashrate. So if we get updated masternodes > 88% DIP3 can lock in: 0.92 x 0.88 = 81%

And if more miners even update to 0.13.1 we are set as well.

 

[flare]

Antpool started signalling as well, so 98% of net hashrate is on v0.13.0+ now. The new DIP3 period will start in 88 blocks, from there we need 3226 out of 4032 blocks with DIP3 flag set to lock in.

 

[jarroyo]

NO!

Use stick, not carrot.

Grow a pair, flog bad actors.

Yes, I too believe in flogging bad actors. However you can’t consider someone who hasn’t upgraded a bad actor per se. They are not trying to game the system and are still playing by the network rules for all intents and purposes.

And yes, while larger testicles are always nice, I suppose I proposed said carrot because said stick hasn’t been effective from what I’m gathering from your perspective. Isn’t a carrot why masternodes and miners participate in the ecosystem to begin with?

A miner/masternode will eventually upgrade to avoid missing payment because the rest of the miners/masternodes have upgraded before them, hence the stick. But if we wish to incentivize the jumpstart of said upgrade, the carrot needs to be there.

So far I believe that carrot has been only the speculative value an upgraded network brings. However, it very unfortunately hasn’t been a strong enough motivator, which is why I propose a direct financial one. As a MN owner I currently have no incentive to upgrade early, rather to upgrade only before it’s too late, which is the problem right now from what I gather.

Personally, if upgrading early meant I could get paid 2x/3x/5x more (hypothetically) in a given timeframe because I acted quicker than others and in turn was in a smaller/more frequent payment queue, as opposed to missing payments because I didn’t act quick enough, my ass is gonna upgrade ASAP (same with miners and a hypothetical temporary higher block reward). Greed and positive reenforcement is simply a stronger motivator in my opinion.

A carrot gets me to willingly move, a stick makes me only want to keep up with any movement.

 

[camosoul]

Yes, I too believe in flogging bad actors. However you can’t consider someone who hasn’t upgraded a bad actor per se.

I agree with most of what you have to say, but stroking each other is not productive, so I'll reply to the part I find contentious.

Negligence is acting in bad faith. Even if it's a lack of acting. It's the same failure mode as never voting. These are key service functions that don't result in PoSe scoring. Why? There absolutely must be a penalty for gross neglect/negligence, but there isn't. DASH cannot accept that from it's MNOs and Miners. People need to be forced to at the very least pay attention and prove they're alive... If you expect other people, say, vendors, to take the network seriously, but the project itself doesn't take the condition of the network seriously... Just one more thing that puts off potential vendors.

You're right, carrot us better. But, if the carrot isn't worth chasing, and it's clearly not or we'd have lock DIP3 a month ago... DASH's carrot isn't working. If DASH can't offer a better carrot, it needs to use stick. Why bother inventing the concept of PoSe score if you only use it on crap that doesn't matter anyway? These details, voting and upgrading, are maximum important, but neither incentive nor penalty exists.

The short queue carrot used to exist in the early days of MasterNodes. It worked very well. It was eliminated because people complained that they didn't get paid when they didn't upgrade... A very weak move, and we now see the consequences.

No benefit to paying attention and keeping up to date.

No penalty for failing to do so.

No reason to even look at it...

No stick. No carrot. No reason to care or take it seriously.