Erik Voorhees article and vid

stan.distortion said:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/article...laced-if-scaling-resolution-not-found-summer/

No mention of Dash in the article (maybe conspicuous in its absence) but well worth a read and even more worth watching the vid, imho there's a good chance Eriks vision is the way the future of cryptocurrency (as a whole) will develop.
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They didnt mention Dash , but they mentioned Tezos. Go fund tezos now, you stupid MNOs.

Tezos's nomic Bank is the camel that goes through the eye of niddle. It is your only hope!
 
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demo said:
They didnt mention Dash , but they mentioned Tezos. Go fund tezos now, you stupid MNOs.

Tezos's nomic Bank is the camel that goes through the eye of niddle. It is your only hope!
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I've changed my mind about tezos. While it's true that governance is a very important factor in any crypto, it's not the only factor.

Dash's ongoing self-funding model pioneered the way and remains a key ingredient. There are many cryptos with "master nodes" and every time you hear the term, it invariably pays homage to dash, the innovator. And when dash gets collateralized mining, dash will (once again) become #1 innovator. Would you care to put a price tag on that?

Having said that, I'm not ignoring tezos's sandboxing and dash might choose to implement something similar at a later date. A fully decentralized spork system (d-sporks?) might come close to matching it.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
I've changed my mind about tezos. While it's true that governance is a very important factor in any crypto, it's not the only factor.

Dash's ongoing self-funding model pioneered the way and remains a key ingredient. There are many cryptos with "master nodes" and every time you hear the term, it invariably pays homage to dash, the innovator. And when dash gets collateralized mining, dash will (once again) become #1 innovator. Would you care to put a price tag on that?

Having said that, I'm not ignoring tezos's sandboxing and dash might choose to implement something similar at a later date. A fully decentralized spork system (d-sporks?) might come close to matching it.
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There are some important advantages of Tezos. The first one is the language itself.

OCaml's static type system can help eliminate problems at runtime. However, it also forces the programmer to conform to the constraints of the type system, which can require careful thought and close attention. A type-inferring compiler greatly reduces the need for manual type annotations. For example, the data type of variables and the signature of functions usually need not be declared explicitly, as they do in languages like Java or C#. Nonetheless, effective use of OCaml's type system can require some sophistication on the part of a programmer.

OCaml is perhaps most distinguished from other languages with origins in academia, by its emphasis on performance. Firstly, its static type system prevents runtime type mismatches, and thus obviates runtime type and safety checks that burden the performance of dynamically typed languages, while still guaranteeing runtime safety, except when array bounds checking is turned off, or when some type-unsafe features like serialization are used. These are rare enough that avoiding them is quite possible in practice.
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We are talking about money, so safety is the number one priority. Dash developers dont seem to care about language safety, they even use pure interpreted languages (like perl) . Perl is unsafe as long as it is not a compiled language, which means that an agent can change the libraries of the language (with the help of automatic updates e.t.c.) and thus change the behavior of the code in the runtime. And he can do this selectively, by targeting specific IPs. Everything depends on the trust you have in the core developers of the interpreted language, and this is also a blind trust as long as you are unable to prove to others that your IP has been targeted by them, neither you can discover whether they have targeted another IP or not. Some of my questions regarding these and some relevant issues still remain unanswered by the core team.

Secondly, there is the design of Dash. Dash inherits from bitcoin's code, and it is very difficult to get rid of all bitcoin's initial decisions and values. The code is very difficult to become 100% flexible , whatever sporks or d-sporks you may use.

And finally some hardcoded numbers of dash, seem suspicious. Like the 10000 max limit of the masternodes.

Thats why Tezos's nomic Bank is the camel that goes through the eye of niddle, it seems to me that this road is your only hope. Dash has to get rid of bitcoin's codebase, has to be rewritten in a more secure and flexible language and should simulate the ideal of a nomic Bank as close as possible.
 
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demo said:
There are some important advantages of Tezos. The first one is the language itself.



We are talking about money, so safety is the number one priority. Dash developers dont seem to care about language safety, they even use pure interpreted languages (like perl) . Perl is unsafe as long as it is not a compiled language, which means that an agent can change the libraries of the language (with the help of automatic updates e.t.c.) and thus change the behavior of the code in the runtime. And he can do this selectively, by targeting specific IPs. Everything depends on the trust you have in the core developers of the interpreted language, and this is also a blind trust as long as you cannot prove to the internet that your IP has been targeted by them, neither you can discover whether they have targeted another IP or not. Some of my questions regarding these and some relevant issues still remain unanswered by the core team.

Secondly, there is the design of Dash. Dash inherits from bitcoin's code, and it is very difficult to get rid of all bitcoin's initial decisions and values. The code is very difficult to become 100% flexible , whatever sporks or d-sporks you may use.

And finally some hardcoded numbers of dash, seem suspicious. Like the 10000 max limit of the masternodes.

Thats why Tezos's nomic Bank is the camel that goes through the eye of niddle, it seems to me that this road is your only hope. Dash has to get rid of bitcoin's codebase, has to be rewritten in a more secure and flexible language and should simulate the ideal of a nomic Bank as close as possible.
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From an academic point of view, Ocaml might make a lot of sense, but the manner in which the project grows and morphs is not entirely clear or perfect. For example, the Tezos Foundation will retain overall control of the codebase for at least a year. If they don't agree with the direction it takes, they will roll it back.. that in itself is problematic. (read their whitepaper)

And from what I've seen, there is literally just a handful of cryptos that have any significant plan of how they're going to scale 1000x (especially Tezos). I mean, bitcoin's SegWit2x, for example, is such an unbelievably short-term solution, they're just kicking the can down the road.

Now consider Lisk, which marries bitshares with javascript. That's a killer combination of v.fast transactions and the most pervasive programming language in the world. Bolt on some formal verification tools and Web Assembly and suddenly it becomes the number #1 platform for smart contracts.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate of course, but the point is, governance is just one piece of the puzzle. Yes, it's an important piece, but next gen crypto is going to have multiple pillars.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Now consider Lisk, which marries bitshares with javascript. That's a killer combination of v.fast transactions and the most pervasive programming language in the world. Bolt on some formal verification tools and Web Assembly and suddenly it becomes the number #1 platform for smart contracts.
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Yet Lisk is pure javascript. How can javascript be a secure language? It tottaly depends on the implementation of the browser!!

And if I am a firefox core developper, and I know that you have a lot of money, I could target your browser and send you a specific update that affects only you. This is a huge problem.

The software of the decentralized money should not rely on the trust of a core developer. This is the number one prerequisite. Even in case a core developer is 100% trustfull, please remember that core developpers may be substituted or die in the future, and this fact causes a lot of problems. Because the stupids tend to trust the brandnames instead of the persons.
 
fernando said:
Voorhees mentions Dash in almost every interview, so I don't think there is ill intention there.
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Ah,ok. This is the first of his I've watched in a long time and he mentions Dash in the first few minutes, I was surprised the coin that set the standard for governance didn't get a mention in the article but it wouldn't really have been in context with his comments of governance in the vid. I'll try and catch up on a few more interviews with Erik, interested in hearing his thoughts on Dash :)
 
demo said:
Yet Lisk is pure javascript. How can javascript be a secure language? It tottaly depends on the implementation of the browser!!

And if I am a firefox core developper, and I know that you have a lot of money, I could target your browser and send you a specific update that affects only you. This is a huge problem.

The software of the decentralized money should not rely on the trust of a core developer. This is the number one prerequisite. Even in case a core developer is 100% trustfull, please remember that core developpers may be substituted or die in the future, and this fact causes a lot of problems. Because the stupids tend to trust the brandnames instead of the persons.
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I'm not saying javascript is secure or the best. I'm saying, in the real world, governance is not the only factor to consider.

Appropriate scalability for the intended audience is absolutely necessary. If bitcoin is "gold" and gold is a small audience and yet it still struggles to scale, then how can bitcoin survive? But dash says, let's keep PoW and ALL transactions on-chain and let's get MASS ADOPTION as Digital Cash.. what's that going to take huh?
 
stan.distortion said:
Ah,ok. This is the first of his I've watched in a long time and he mentions Dash in the first few minutes, I was surprised the coin that set the standard for governance didn't get a mention in the article but it wouldn't really have been in context with his comments of governance in the vid. I'll try and catch up on a few more interviews with Erik, interested in hearing his thoughts on Dash :)
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I'm not sure when, but I remember some good comments from him. Lately he always uses Dash in the example portfolio he uses to explain Prism (not much, but at least it shows we are top of mind). Also, I think he is close to Roger Ver and he has also said many times that he likes Dash (the last one in an interview he did recently for the Crypto Show where he says that many people will prefer to be paid in Dash because then they can use it).
 
GrandMasterDash said:
I'm not saying javascript is secure or the best.
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When in bitcoin they discuss about gitian build it is naive to claim that javascript has even a tiny possibility to become the dominant secure language for the digital money of the future. Yet there are too many people that code their cryptocoins in javascript, and this is done either by ignorance or on mischievous purpose.

An interpreted language is not suitable for secure applications, while the digital cryptomoney of the future requires the ultimate security.

Disadvantages of interpreted languages are:
  • Without static type-checking, which is usually performed by a compiler, programs can be less reliable, because type checking eliminates a class of programming errors.
  • Interpreters can be susceptible to Code injection attacks.
  • Slower execution compared to direct native machine code execution on the host CPU. A technique used to improve performance is just-in-time compilation which converts frequently executed sequences of interpreted instruction to host machine code. JIT is most often combined with compilation to byte-code as in Java.
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This is one of the reasons why Evan likes hardware wallets and hardware masternodes. But the hardware solution is not a panacea, whatever you gain in security by using a hardware, you lose it in flexibility. The security problem of the digial money should be solved with a straight forward secure and compiled language. Chosing the appropriate language is a strategic decision of great importance.
 
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fernando said:
I'm not sure when, but I remember some good comments from him. Lately he always uses Dash in the example portfolio he uses to explain Prism (not much, but at least it shows we are top of mind). Also, I think he is close to Roger Ver and he has also said many times that he likes Dash (the last one in an interview he did recently for the Crypto Show where he says that many people will prefer to be paid in Dash because then they can use it).
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It'd be great if one of Dashes media channels could interview Erik at some stage :) More from Roger too ofc but Erik seems to see the bigger picture very clearly. Prism looks really interesting, not dug into it much yet but I'm guessing that the combination of Prism, Shapeshift and Arbitor (mentioned briefly around 44.00) could be extremely powerful, the kind of stabilising mechanism regular markets can only dream of for one thing and something that makes sense to a wide range of mindsets, from the most diehard Keynesian to the most fanatical goldbug.

His mentions cryptocurrency evolving with different systems filling different rolls at one point and that's a critical point for Dash imho. Shapeshifts rise in popularity seems to have taken everyone by surprise, even its originators and if Prism does the same it could be the beginnings of a major shift in how we think about value and existing cryptocurrencies would be the first thing effected, what does each have to offer besides unique tokens? Folks want to be paid in Dash because they can use it, isn't that the whole point of digital cash? That need isn't going away any time soon :)
 
stan.distortion said:
It'd be great if one of Dashes media channels could interview Erik at some stage :) More from Roger too ofc but Erik seems to see the bigger picture very clearly. Prism looks really interesting, not dug into it much yet but I'm guessing that the combination of Prism, Shapeshift and Arbitor (mentioned briefly around 44.00) could be extremely powerful, the kind of stabilising mechanism regular markets can only dream of for one thing and something that makes sense to a wide range of mindsets, from the most diehard Keynesian to the most fanatical goldbug.

His mentions cryptocurrency evolving with different systems filling different rolls at one point and that's a critical point for Dash imho. Shapeshifts rise in popularity seems to have taken everyone by surprise, even its originators and if Prism does the same it could be the beginnings of a major shift in how we think about value and existing cryptocurrencies would be the first thing effected, what does each have to offer besides unique tokens? Folks want to be paid in Dash because they can use it, isn't that the whole point of digital cash? That need isn't going away any time soon :)
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I agree about Voorhees, I never get tired of listening to him. As for interviews, that's up to the creators of those outlets, but I'd say that an email asking nicely goes a long way :)
 
fernando said:
I agree about Voorhees, I never get tired of listening to him. As for interviews, that's up to the creators of those outlets, but I'd say that an email asking nicely goes a long way :)
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Asking Erik or our dedicated media experts? Pinging @thedesertlynx on the later, really enjoyed the recent interview with Ian Freeman and would love to see more from him! Could try emailing Erik too but I don't imagine it would get much response, chatted with him a bit on BCT but that was ages ago and I'd guess he gets far too many of those kind of emails.
 
stan.distortion said:
Asking Erik or our dedicated media experts? Pinging @thedesertlynx on the later, really enjoyed the recent interview with Ian Freeman and would love to see more from him! Could try emailing Erik too but I don't imagine it would get much response, chatted with him a bit on BCT but that was ages ago and I'd guess he gets far too many of those kind of emails.
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You never now if you (or @thedesertlynx in this case) don't write :). People tend to answer emails if they are short and have a clear ask. I've found that to be true even moreso with busy people like Erik.
 
thedesertlynx said:
I might go for him soon. He was on Amanda's show very recently so we'll see who else we get on board first.
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How did I miss that one?? Nice one, will watch that in a mo :) I notice Amir Taaki is doing a few interviews recently... ;) Mike Hearn would be interesting, not sure if he's doing anything public with cryptocurrency these days but some of his past talks are fascinating and there where some great ideas that seem to have been fading away since he left. The guy who's views on crypto I'd most like to hear though is Yanis Varoufakis! Probably a bit too much to ask at the mo but maybe one day... :)

EDIT: Amandas interview:

EDIT2: If there's another interview with Erik could someone please ask him his views on barter in the digital age? Thanks :)
 
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