[Discussion] Projects founded by blockchain

moli said:
7000 dash mixed for 8 rounds? someone might be able to crack it.

Aswan , what d'ya think? :grin:

Edit: btw, it would take a looong time to mix 7k dash with the current system.... and so obvious if it's a sum of 7k to start.. :p
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Good point! It's hard to find funds' source when you don't know what you are looking for but there is no need to go through mixing txes if you already know the initial amount. The whole point of mixing - no one should know my initial amount, all they (receivers) can see (for sure) is what I sent to them, and that's it, nothing else.
 
UdjinM6 said:
Good point! It's hard to find funds' source when you don't know what you are looking for but there is no need to go through mixing txes if you already know the initial amount. The whole point of mixing - no one should know my initial amount, all they (receivers) can see (for sure) is what I sent to them, and that's it, nothing else.
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Yup. And we shouldn't tell them how many rounds the coins went through.

Btw, Udjin, I still think we need more than 8 rounds. What's the plan for DS in version 12?
Edit: I mean more than 8 rounds as the default.
 
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UdjinM6 said:
Good point! It's hard to find funds' source when you don't know what you are looking for but there is no need to go through mixing txes if you already know the initial amount. The whole point of mixing - no one should know my initial amount, all they (receivers) can see (for sure) is what I sent to them, and that's it, nothing else.
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Great points! I think it would be even more fun of a challenge. Perhaps we just say, "More then x". The BTC core dev's are proposing a challenge to our privacy model. If we think it is as strong as we think it is then it should be a no brainer. If mixing that amount of Dash is an issue then well we have more food for the fire. It could be mixed in smaller denom's and then all the fresh mixed coins could be put together. This is just one thought but to me this is going to benefit the blockchain more then anything else I've heard proposed thus far.

Please pick it apart more this thought was still half baked so it needs more discussion.

If we hesitate to do something like this it begs the question to be asked. Do the dev's know something we don't about issues with the mixing? Do we have something hidden that we haven't talked about that could uncover us? I think these are very valid questions. If we truly do trust our solution then we should put it out there. Can't see the bad that would come from it.
 
AnarchicCluster said:
I think it is safe to say that there is non-zero chance of anything happen. But Seriously I would like to find out more about this idea. What do you mean by pay for bandwidth? I remember they've been toying around with an idea of a TORcoin as rewards for people running exit and relay nodes. Is it something similar to that?
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Right now all of the bandwidth in the tor system is given away so you just have to accept whatever you can get, but if you could pay for bandwidth then you could get exactly how much bandwidth you are willing to pay for. You could also add additional bandwidth hogging privacy features. Like why not have a 10 hop path if you are willing to pay for it? Or maybe there could be exit nodes that constantly send you junk data when you are not using the connection to mess with timing attacks.

I am not sure if those are actually good ideas, but the tor network could only be improved if it wasn't a bandwidth charity I think.
 
Incentivised mixing? Tor would need mixing and could probably even provide it.

EDIT: Haven't mixed anything in ages and 20 at 4 rounds is taking a while, wouldn't like to try 8. My net's been acting the maggot all evening though... A tor blockchain could do some really interesting stuff, its own DNS system for one and probably loads of obfuscation and pathfinding stuff for the networking, node lists, all sorts.
 
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moli said:
Yup. And we shouldn't tell them how many rounds the coins went through.

Btw, Udjin, I still think we need more than 8 rounds. What's the plan for DS in version 12?
Edit: I mean more than 8 rounds as the default.
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For general wallet it's 2-8 in GUI, 2-16 in cmd-line, 2 by default.
For liquidity providers - 99999.
Btw, we are slightly off topic :wink:

coingun said:
Great points! I think it would be even more fun of a challenge. Perhaps we just say, "More then x". The BTC core dev's are proposing a challenge to our privacy model. If we think it is as strong as we think it is then it should be a no brainer. If mixing that amount of Dash is an issue then well we have more food for the fire. It could be mixed in smaller denom's and then all the fresh mixed coins could be put together. This is just one thought but to me this is going to benefit the blockchain more then anything else I've heard proposed thus far.

Please pick it apart more this thought was still half baked so it needs more discussion.

If we hesitate to do something like this it begs the question to be asked. Do the dev's know something we don't about issues with the mixing? Do we have something hidden that we haven't talked about that could uncover us? I think these are very valid questions. If we truly do trust our solution then we should put it out there. Can't see the bad that would come from it.
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It feel like you are trying to make it complex when there is no need to :tongue: You can just send mixed funds to some address, provide txid of this transfer and ask to find a non-denominated source of these funds.

As for DS issues - I think there are still few things I'd like to improve/change in DS to be even more confident, I would wait with bounties like that a bit. :rolleyes:
 
UdjinM6 said:
For general wallet it's 2-8 in GUI, 2-16 in cmd-line, 2 by default.
For liquidity providers - 99999.
Btw, we are slightly off topic :wink:



It feel like you are trying to make it complex when there is no need to :tongue: You can just send mixed funds to some address, provide txid of this transfer and ask to find a non-denominated source of these funds.

As for DS issues - I think there are still few things I'd like to improve/change in DS to be even more confident, I would wait with bounties like that a bit. :rolleyes:
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Tx Udjin
you are totally right !

lets wait with this, we put it on the list, and do that when we are well and ready !
(v12, a couple of forks and maybe then)

Back to topic
:wink:
 
stan.distortion said:
Beer!!
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Free beer for forum members who have more than 200 "Likes" [IMG]http://178.254.18.153/~pub/icons/smilie_drink3.gif[/IMG] said:
Beer!!
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Good thinking !
i believe i am totally winning that one :wink:
somebody might have to order a couple of crates then
2476 % 200 = 12.38 to be exact
smilie_drink3.gif

:grin:
and happy friday all around
 
I agree with a separate thread for each idea/proposal but since we don't have that yet... I feel we should talk with Gavin regarding which set of security experts he feels is credible and hire them to do a full writeup on Dash. Pros/Cons/weaknesses/strengths/etc.. I'm sure there are plenty of people/groups that have been working away trying to breach the security to steal $ or for them to push other coins by hurting this one. I feel that is a test but not one that can be documented and distributed. It would also be nice to have a full writeup around the differences between how Dash is funding the miners, master nodes, and development. This is so different that is needs to be explained clearly and sent to Wired / Techcrunch / NYT / LAT / prWeb / Coindesk / etc. I'm not saying we are there now but by the time funding is available, we might be.
 
WastedLTC said:
I agree with a separate thread for each idea/proposal but since we don't have that yet... I feel we should talk with Gavin regarding which set of security experts he feels is credible and hire them to do a full writeup on Dash.
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I have a feeling that Gavin would dismiss this request as not worth his time. His response to the question about Dash seemed very half-assed so I am guessing he is not into altcoins and he is rather uninterested in engaging in debate.,, Hence dismission.
With that being said. Having a full security audit is not a bad idea. I think we should have it anyway, with Gavin deciding on the team of experts or not.
I think that would also fall into the category of work on the blockchain what should make TaoOfSAtoshi (or whoever wrote that article on Dashdot) happy as well.
 
AnarchicCluster said:
I have a feeling that Gavin would dismiss this request as not worth his time. His response to the question about Dash seemed very half-assed so I am guessing he is not into altcoins and he is rather uninterested in engaging in debate.,, Hence dismission.
With that being said. Having a full security audit is not a bad idea. I think we should have it anyway, with Gavin deciding on the team of experts or not.
I think that would also fall into the category of work on the blockchain what should make TaoOfSAtoshi (or whoever wrote that article on Dashdot) happy as well.
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I'm not sure why we even levy the question to the Bitcoin core team; it sort of implies we are looking for their approval/insight, when, in reality, we are looking to make them obsolete. Clearly approval will not be forthcoming because we are a serious competitor, and insight is not forthcoming because they can't be bothered to learn about Dash (yet, and that's a good thing).

I kindda look at Dash the same way I look at a start up: We're a small pirate ship facing up an armada of entrenched interests and incumbent technologies, we have little to gain by asking them for insight or following their lead, because they are the old way of doing things. We will only be the future of this technology by inventing it.

That's just my opinion, I know, but I'm not sure why we care who GA thinks would make a good security audit. Lets get our funding page done and hire the best out there.

Pablo.
 
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flailingjunk said:
Well no one else took the initiative so I sent a email to [email protected] and [email protected] letting them know that the DASH development funds are a possible source of funding for them. Hopefully we will find out if they have any interest.
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"Dash development funds are a possible source of funding for them"
??
Why is that ?
Because we use our funds to fund other projects ? I think you are jumping the gun there a bit ! Eventually we might have enough funds to support other projects but for now we have enough on our own tech to work and fund !!
 
flailingjunk said:
Well no one else took the initiative so I sent a email to [email protected] and [email protected] letting them know that the DASH development funds are a possible source of funding for them. Hopefully we will find out if they have any interest.
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The Tor project has been funded well. If you Google "Tor funding" it will give you many links, and you might be surprised that Tor has been reported as funded mostly by the US govt.

List of Tor sponsors: https://www.torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en
Who's been giving money to Tor:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rcent-of-tors-development-can-users-trust-it/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/29/us-government-funding-tor-18m-onion-router
http://www.eweek.com/security/who-funds-tor-project-may-surprise-you-or-maybe-not.html
http://pando.com/2014/07/16/tor-spooks/
If you can code for Tor, you'll get paid well (I read the story of someone who did it but can't find the link now)
https://www.torproject.org/about/jobs-coredev.html.en

I think Tor should support Dash and donate some funds to our devs. :)
Or you should ask Tor devs to join Dash and develop something cool for us. :)
 
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tungfa said:
"Why is that ?
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I think you are missing context from my previous posts. I am not proposing that we just throw money at tor for no reason.

moli said:
I think Tor should support Dash and donate some funds to our devs. :)
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Seems Unlikely.

moli said:
Or you should ask Tor devs to join Dash and develop something cool for us. :)
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That is exactly what I was asking. Not exactly joining dash but definitely developing something cool except, you know, with compensation.
 
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flailingjunk said:
That is exactly what I was asking. Not exactly joining dash but definitely developing something cool except, you know, with compensation.
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Interesting idea. TOR is very widely known so if they endorsed Dash it could give us a nice bump in popularity. Alternatively we could just throw cash at them just for simple endorsement of Dash. In this case I would imagine that the compensation would be much smaller than if they have developed something for Dash.

If we are talking about other projects and such. We could throw a bit of cash at one of the major darknet markets, if they agree to integrate and promote Dash. Generally I think that we should target darknet because its users are most likely to use anonymity centred currencies.
 
flailingjunk said:
I think you are missing context from my previous posts. I am not proposing that we just throw money at tor for no reason.



Seems Unlikely.



That is exactly what I was asking. Not exactly joining dash but definitely developing something cool except, you know, with compensation.
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I was just joking ... :tongue:
I don't think Evan wants this coin to be related to Tor or darknets and draw unwanted attention from the govt. Sure people can spend dash anywhere they want. You can run Dash with TOR: https://dashtalk.org/threads/overview-tor-guides-for-dash-darkcoin.4227/
But I prefer Dash to stay away from any unwanted agency.
 
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