Development Update - Oct 1, 2014

eduffield said:
I like Proof-of-work, I think it's important for keeping the ecosystem healthy. In balance with a proof-of-service system, I think we'll do well.

Benefits of proof-of-work:
- In a pure proof-of-stake system, the coins are distributed to only the ones that are invested. In a proof-of-work system, you have a wider base of people receiving compensation.
- Proof-of-work sets a price due to the electricity cost of producing the coins.

Proof-of-stake:
- Would require that all masternode operators have their money on a "hot" node. I think one of the best things about the current masternode system is the fact that you can run a masternode with no money in it.
- Also has a incompatibility with proof-of-service, in the existing system we can enforce that ports are open to get paid, or that masternodes are processing Darksend transactions successfully (it doesn't do this currently, but it can in the future).

Solution: Sync a common list across the whole network. Payee and payment amount can be enforced this way, and the reward will increase for 1 1/2 years. First adjustments are 5%, followed by 2.5%, then the last few adjustments are 2.5% every 2 months.

Code:
https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/commit/ad59f33e44620cbaa44f33d25d22cac1329beff6

We can start updating testnet and testing this. This will be the last hard fork for months (the next one will be for later revision of InstantX, which is months away.)
Click to expand...

Interesting.... This "reward", are you talking about the block reward or the MN payment percentage?
 
eduffield said:
I like Proof-of-work, I think it's important for keeping the ecosystem healthy. In balance with a proof-of-service system, I think we'll do well.

Benefits of proof-of-work:
- In a pure proof-of-stake system, the coins are distributed to only the ones that are invested. In a proof-of-work system, you have a wider base of people receiving compensation.
- Proof-of-work sets a price due to the electricity cost of producing the coins.

Proof-of-stake:
- Would require that all masternode operators have their money on a "hot" node. I think one of the best things about the current masternode system is the fact that you can run a masternode with no money in it.
- Also has a incompatibility with proof-of-service, in the existing system we can enforce that ports are open to get paid, or that masternodes are processing Darksend transactions successfully (it doesn't do this currently, but it can in the future).

Solution: Sync a common list across the whole network. Payee and payment amount can be enforced this way, and the reward will increase for 1 1/2 years. First adjustments are 5%, followed by 2.5%, then the last few adjustments are 2.5% every 2 months.

Code:
https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/commit/ad59f33e44620cbaa44f33d25d22cac1329beff6

We can start updating testnet and testing this. This will be the last hard fork for months (the next one will be for later revision of InstantX, which is months away.)
Click to expand...
Can we test enforcement too please?
 
Propulsion said:
eduffield Your solution "to sync a list across the whole network." Do you mean you are taking every single MN into account and distributing the 20% MN reward to every MN?

Are you also proposing to increase the block reward; As it is now with 5 darkcoin per block, are you proposing 5.25 per block with the same 20% to MN's 80% to miners?
Click to expand...

It's a list of who gets paid for which block. Something like this:

{
'10001' : "Masternode1",
'10002' : "Masternode2",
'10003' : "Masternode3",
'10004' : "Masternode4",
}

Every client has the list and when they think they've won, they can prove it by propagating a "win" message. That message is then checked by CalculateScore.

I'm not messing with the total reward, just the split between the miners and the masternode operators. So right now it's 80/20, in a month it'll be 75/25, then 70/30, etc.
 
crowning said:
Exactly my points, full agreement!
Maybe you shouldn't have housed your mining farm in the bedroom....wives don't like that :tongue:
Click to expand...
LOL! I knew my comment would conjure up pictures like that. I really only had two mining rigs in an office, but even with just two rigs the maintenance time was pretty significant. I have real respect for miners after my 6 month journey into the hobby.
 
eduffield said:
It's a list of who gets paid for which block. Something like this:

{
'10001' : "Masternode1",
'10002' : "Masternode2",
'10003' : "Masternode3",
'10004' : "Masternode4",
}

Every client has the list and when they think they've won, they can prove it by propagating a "win" message. That message is then checked by CalculateScore.

I'm not messing with the total reward, just the split between the miners and the masternode operators. So right now it's 80/20, in a month it'll be 75/25, then 70/30, etc.
Click to expand...

Based on my cost analyzation that's not bad. Especially considering how some people are claiming that the mining can be improved upon by 400%.
 
eduffield said:
Solution: Sync a common list across the whole network. Payee and payment amount can be enforced this way, and the reward will increase for 1 1/2 years. First adjustments are 5%, followed by 2.5%, then the last few adjustments are 2.5% every 2 months.

Code:
https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/commit/ad59f33e44620cbaa44f33d25d22cac1329beff6
Click to expand...

I can't see it in the code, what's the roadmap?

eg,
Nov '14 +5% to 25%
Dec '14 +5% to 30%
Jan '15 +5% to 35%
Feb '15 +2.5% to 37.5%
...
Feb '16 +2.5% to ?% ... ?

Or is that still TBC? I'm liking the idea of 60/40 by February and 50/50 by June... :grin:
 
thelonecrouton said:
I can't see it in the code, what's the roadmap?
Click to expand...

Right here, increases every 30 days:

Code: 
+ if(nHeight > 150000) ret += blockValue / 20; //25%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*1)) ret += blockValue / 20; //30%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*2)) ret += blockValue / 20; //35%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*3)) ret += blockValue / 40; //37.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*4)) ret += blockValue / 40; //40%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*5)) ret += blockValue / 40; //42.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*6)) ret += blockValue / 40; //45%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*7)) ret += blockValue / 40; //47.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*9)) ret += blockValue / 40; //50%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*11)) ret += blockValue / 40; //52.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*13)) ret += blockValue / 40; //55%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*15)) ret += blockValue / 40; //57.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*17)) ret += blockValue / 40; //60%
 
So I made an account to comment on this thread. I gotta say that I hope the developers are taking into account the reaction to these plans. DRK's value dropped noticeably instead of rising, and every one of my friends invested in DRK thinks this continually increasing MN reward idea is completely ridiculous. It just makes this whole coin look like a giant scam, and the fact that it has Dark in the name doesn't help it (It's a great name, but it does have some negative connotations about it that can be amplified by some of the things being proposed here).

Also, I hope everyone here realizes the massive potential of DRK. Yes, it was initially just thought of an anonymous coin, but with the introduction of instantX it can be so much more. Instant, anonymous transactions could turn this into the digital cash we have all been waiting for (And Litecoin failed to become). As such, this needs to be thought of as a coin that can see widespread and broad adoption of consumers. Think long term here guys...
 
crowning said:
Right here, increases every 30 days:

Code: 
+ if(nHeight > 150000) ret += blockValue / 20; //25%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*1)) ret += blockValue / 20; //30%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*2)) ret += blockValue / 20; //35%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*3)) ret += blockValue / 40; //37.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*4)) ret += blockValue / 40; //40%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*5)) ret += blockValue / 40; //42.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*6)) ret += blockValue / 40; //45%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*7)) ret += blockValue / 40; //47.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*9)) ret += blockValue / 40; //50%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*11)) ret += blockValue / 40; //52.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*13)) ret += blockValue / 40; //55%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*15)) ret += blockValue / 40; //57.5%
+ if(nHeight > 150000+((576*30)*17)) ret += blockValue / 40; //60%
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks, I was searching darksend.cpp, hadn't scrolled down to main.cpp... :oops:
 
Captain_Tom said:
So I made an account to comment on this thread. I gotta say that I hope the developers are taking into account the reaction to these plans. DRK's value dropped noticeably instead of rising, and every one of my friends invested in DRK thinks this continually increasing MN reward idea is completely ridiculous. It just makes this whole coin look like a giant scam, and the fact that it has Dark in the name doesn't help it (It's a great name, but it does have some negative connotations about it that can be amplified by some of the things being proposed here).

Also, I hope everyone here realizes the massive potential of DRK. Yes, it was initially just thought of an anonymous coin, but with the introduction of instantX it can be so much more. Instant, anonymous transactions could turn this into the digital cash we have all been waiting for (And Litecoin failed to become). As such, this needs to be thought of as a coin that can see widespread and broad adoption of consumers. Think long term here guys...
Click to expand...
And guess what makes InstanTX possible? And anonymous transactions? What gives value and utility to the coin? That's right, Masternodes! :tongue:
 
I have a couple of MNs. Don't kill me but wouldn't be better to get 2% every month till end of next year and in december getting to 50/50???
 
Captain_Tom said:
So I made an account to comment on this thread. I gotta say that I hope the developers are taking into account the reaction to these plans. DRK's value dropped noticeably instead of rising, and every one of my friends invested in DRK thinks this continually increasing MN reward idea is completely ridiculous. It just makes this whole coin look like a giant scam, and the fact that it has Dark in the name doesn't help it (It's a great name, but it does have some negative connotations about it that can be amplified by some of the things being proposed here).

Also, I hope everyone here realizes the massive potential of DRK. Yes, it was initially just thought of an anonymous coin, but with the introduction of instantX it can be so much more. Instant, anonymous transactions could turn this into the digital cash we have all been waiting for (And Litecoin failed to become). As such, this needs to be thought of as a coin that can see widespread and broad adoption of consumers. Think long term here guys...
Click to expand...

POW provides equilibrium, if the price is low, hash rate drops, and vice versa. Artificially meddling in this will create distortions.

Why is it that everyone, except current holders of multiple master nodes, thinks this idea is ridiculous? The master nodes only provide value if they are in demand. At $2.38 a coin, they are not in demand. Unless their electricity is free, miners are mining at a loss. Taking even more of their reward away, in hopes it spurs demand for coin is a huge risk. I won't mine at a 60% loss with crossed fingers.

The block reward payout should be a function of the coins USD price. As the price rises, reward can be shifted from miners to nodes. The system can find its own equilibrium, with both miners and nodes making profit, and not pitting the two against each other. A system should be created with a low barrier to entry were everyone is rewarded proportionally for their effort.
 
thelonecrouton said:
And guess what makes InstanTX possible? And anonymous transactions? What gives value and utility to the coin? That's right, Masternodes! :tongue:
Click to expand...
This is what happens when people who don't understand what's going on get a keyboard...

Fewer DRKs == higher value for an already scarce coin... Mining was satoshi's experiment. It works, but it's not the only metric we should be using. Money hosers who don't understand how it works will get mad. They should sell their rigs to people who do understand, just like traders who don't understand fundamental software development should sell their coins so I can buy them...
 
nsimmons said:
POW provides equilibrium, if the price is low, hash rate drops, and vice versa. Artificially meddling in this will create distortions.

Why is it that everyone, except current holders of multiple master nodes, thinks this idea is ridiculous? The master nodes only provide value if they are in demand. At $2.38 a coin, they are not in demand. Unless their electricity is free, miners are mining at a loss. Taking even more of their reward away, in hopes it spurs demand for coin is a huge risk. I won't mine at a 60% loss with crossed fingers.

The block reward payout should be a function of the coins USD price. As the price rises, reward can be shifted from miners to nodes. The system can find its own equilibrium, with both miners and nodes making profit, and not pitting the two against each other. A system should be created with a low barrier to entry were everyone is rewarded proportionally for their effort.
Click to expand...
http://thepeoplescube.com/store/the_peoples_cube.php

No, I will not let this turn into BitCoinTalk... Anyone who takes this conversation one reply further should be banned.
 
$2,380 Masternode is cheaper than $10,000 Neptune that won't even pay for itself. The masternode is money itself, and doesn't need to pay for itself when it can simply be cashed out if needed.

Low barrier to entry achieved.

Mining is already a thing that you can do only if you can afford ASICs. MNs are available to anyone with the DRKs, and you get them back no matter what...
 
camosoul said:
$2,380 Masternode is cheaper than $10,000 Neptune that won't even pay for itself. The masternode is money itself, and doesn't need to pay for itself when it can simply be cashed out if needed.

Low barrier to entry achieved.
Click to expand...

Is it? for a college student who is starving? That's an entire semesters tuition. How about a second, or third world participant?
 
nsimmons said:
Is it? for a college student who is starving? That's an entire semesters tuition. How about a second, or third world participant?
Click to expand...
Your argument is that 1DRK costs more than a Neptune and has a worse ROI? You have lost already... Stop making this forum into BCT.
 
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