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Dash World: Failure or Success? (Warning on Dangers Lurking)

Sorry @demo

Reversible transactions are not the answer.

Not being a fucking moron in the first place is the answer.

Being a fucking moron in the first place is a common thing, you cannot avoid that.

Simple unconditional reversible transactions are not the answer.
Reversible transactions as a result of a political decision (or taxation, which is equivalent as long as you may not revert the transaction that way, but you take the money back anyway) is the answer.
 
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@GreyGhost, the June 2016 budget isn't even for a website. It is to fund graphic design for the Evolution product. These are completely different things. The title of the proposal is (and this is a direct cut and paste):
Evolution Development - Graphic Design
You clearly position this expense as something to do with our website.

This is not the only factual error... far from it. Let me point out a few more:
1) $2,000 for Fox Tail Marketing... this was a marketing expense. I don't see how that could be more clear. Again, it has nothing to do with the website. I don't know all the details, but my understanding is that these were traditional ads (like banners) last fall. We tested it to measure the effectiveness of a small-scale ad campaign. It was discontinued the following month as we found more cost-effective approaches. So this had absolutely nothing to do with the website design. Marketing.
2) $3,130.45 USD remaining budget - remaining budget is just that... unspent monies. You counted it as "spent".
3) $1,269.55 + $600.00 + $3,130.45 = $5,000.00 - Does this number look familiar? That's because you counted this AGAIN later in another line item referencing the proposal that was the source of those funds.
4) Then, you added some completely unrelated Evolution funding requests (and revalued them higher based on the current exchange rates... NOT when the requests were made)

So, by counting unrelated expenses, unspent budget, double counting expenses, double counting our remaining budget, AND revaluing budget proposals at current rates, you have managed to inflate the actual expense from ~$1,900 to ~$24,100.

I remain available to offer corrections on the remainder of your post.

You see, @babygiraffe you're like Clinton, it's all Putin's fault, but the crux of the matter, waste of money, does not really matter :)
@camosoul made some good points so no need for me to repeat these.

A waste is a waste no one seems to be hold accountable for:

1) $2,000 for Fox Tail Marketing was for the SEO company that did nothing. You guys paid them and ditched them after you found Terpin. His fraud I documented elsewhere and am really not in a need to go back to all that shit; it was analyzed, documented, elaborated, the Terpin fraudulent report, in which he exacerbated the "value" of his work for 1000 times. Dig back if you wish. $2K & $6K wasted. And, with all my "faulty exaggerations" I was kind enough not to beat the dead horse (Terpin fiasco) yet again this time.

So, yes, it does seem I double accounted $5K and $5K but it was an honest mistake. But, it was you who wasted that money. $5K or $10K lost, wasted, spent on garbage, does it really matter? The money has been wasted. Not a penny should be unaccounted! You -- not personally -- "you" as in "you guys" behave like drunken millionaires or like Dmitry Karamazov, "yes, I could've drunk up $10K of your money but I drunk up only $5K, so I am an honest men." (and that idiot GG says, erroneously that I spent $10K or $5K or $1.9K...)

If you want a REAL argument, try not to focus on Putin, my poor math skills, and tell us:
  • what did the Fox Tail Marketing do for the $2,000.00 received
  • what did the El Passion do for $1,269.55 (payment + wiring fees)
  • what did the "local designer" that "took over work" do for $ 600.00
    (and, perhaps, you can also share who was the "local designer" when you provide the scope of their work)
  • what happened with the "unspent" money -- $3,130.45 -- where did it go, where did you use it so save the budget some more costs?
# # # #

"Completely unrelated Evolution funding requests," given that these were for the "website design" were not really that completely unrelated. You wrote: "This proposal will provide initial funding for professional graphic designers to create the visual design for the Evolution web client user interfaces. This task was selected to outsource because it represents a stand-alone effort, allowing the team to focus on the technical design activities while accelerating the delivery of the project."

So, not that I am a Putin like math scourge but I do not understand nuances of your proposals either, website / web client / user interfaces, what Dmitry Karamazov or Putin know about any of these. Because what I understand is this:

a) NO website design / website after all the money spent;
b) Evolution web client user interface -- that is NOT a website -- costs $10K.

OK, we're coming closer, so let us simplify.

$10,000.00 as you asked for in June (so NOT 955.170 + 352.970 DASH, in today's price of $12,950.58 but your original $10,000.00 -- let us forget $2,950.58 so I would not appear as inflating your numbers in addition to other sins) has been spent, will be spent. But, on what?

If you want a REAL argument, kindly tell us:
  • DID you have a biding process for that work or, HOW was the company or individuals that will be doing a "professional graphic design" chosen?
  • WHO are these "professional" people that justify such a hefty price of $10,000.00 for design?
    (I urge anyone to kindly check out http://www.designcrowd.com/ for example and see what we could get for $10,000.00)
  • WHY do you think we -- the investor and funders -- are not entitled to know how the process of spending our $10K went and where it stands?
  • WHAT are the milestones, deliverables etc., for this work?
  • WHAT has been done, for these 1308.14 DASH ($10K in your world, $13K in mine) since you received that money, a month or so ago?
 
Just look at the way the argument is framed.

It's all about playing tug-of-war with a piggy bank.

That's how they see it. Even their insults come framed with "You're just mad because we have control of the piggy bank and you don't!"

It's a narrative that only works from the desperate loser perspective. I don't want your stupid fucking piggy bank. I've already got a bigger one that doesn't involve putting up with this bullshit or associating with dirty people. It's the bullshit I take issue with, not access to your petty ego tripping and nancy bitch trinkets.

You can't even get them to change the subject and point it towards anything other than the piggy bank obsession.

Because that's what it is to them. That's how they see it. They can't see it any other way. Any argument raised, they see as a threat to control of the piggy bank. That's what this is exposing. I couldn't give one flying fuck about the money. The fact that it's being pissed away by suckers posing as governance, under the spell of their masters, is the problem. The DGBB doesn't do fuck all besides make an ass of itself and do exactly as told by it's masters. What form of supposedly distributed governance takes it's orders blindly from the king?

The DGBB just a Piggy Bank "guarded" by Obedient, Clueless Dorys. And they know it.
 
Because that's what it is to them. That's how they see it. They can't see it any other way. Any argument raised, they see as a threat to control of the piggy bank. That's what this is exposing. I couldn't give one flying fuck about the money. The fact that it's being pissed away by suckers posing as governance, under the spell of their masters, is the problem. The DGBB doesn't do fuck all besides make an ass of itself and do exactly as told by it's masters. What form of supposedly distributed governance takes it's orders blindly from the king?

You point to the problem, we all know that problem, but have you a solution to propose?

The root of the problem is IN THE CODE ITSELF. The code of dash is a stable hardcoded code, with hardcoded initial values and hardcoded decisions that allow this piggy bank to exist. And as long as a stagnant pig exist, all the dirty flies are coming.

The code of dash should be designed from scratch taking into account the reflection property of programming. The code and all its initial values should be able to change in the runtime, and should be able to change by voting that will be kept in a votechain (a blockchain that keep the votes). Maybe you should hire some virus programmers, they know what reflection is. But it is hard to find them, they live in the dark and they hate to wear white hats.

Otherwise, and as long as the code is stable and cannot be change in the runtime, whatever you do, and whatever your arguments are, the status remains the same, because the clueless Dorys just dont want to compile the new code that solves the problem. So stop the arguments, nobody hears you, and start voting for the code itself, vote for all its initial values and decisions, and vote in the runtime. This is the solution. The votechain. Stop talking, and start voting, and let your vote reflect directly to the status quo of the running code.
 
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You DARE to speak against the will of the king? You're a troll!

Lols, the desperation stinks.

This is why I quit voting and dumped slack. It doesn't matter. The retards are overwhelming. Sadly, consequences don't exist. It'll take something extreme enough to knock DASH down before they'll learn. But... would the gatekeepers allow it? Since they're not actually in control, that'll never happen. Pain is an excellent teacher, but they're always spared it because their choices have no effect either way. Wasted money on dumb shit? Nobody has to skip a meal, no loss... There's no discouragement from perpetual idiocy because there's no negative consequence. The worst thing that happens is DASH continues to make a fool of itself in front of grown-ups, but since it's an echo chamber of ponzi-heads, they don't even realize that's happening... All One can do is take a step into that echo chamber and try to let them know what they look like to everyone else... This depends on their ability, or willingness, to actually listen to something that comes from outside the echo chamber. If that were an interest that they had, they wouldn't have created the echo chamber, would they? Stick your fingers in your ears and scream "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" some more. That'll certainly get shit done!

Have you paid any attention the the Social Justice Warrior phenomenon? Specifically, the "Safe Space" bullshit? Where "triggered" losers can go to hide from facts that crush their idiotic views and opinions? Specifically, talk to the Black Lives Matter people. They want Safe Spaces where they can go to talk to each other about the lies they believe, and White People are not allowed in. They want their own bathrooms. They want their own drinking fountains... Why not their own seats at the back of the bus, too? They want segregation! They want to be totally isolated! They want the exact same thing that the the "racists" they hate want! You think they'd get along just fine!

MNOs could approve URA. They could reject URA. What difference does it make? MNO votes will remain vestigial-by-design because they're isolated. Insulated from consequence in code, cut off from "feeling stupid" by their own echo chamber. As our favorite semi-useful troll points out, it's the code, stupid! And voting won't make a difference because of what I've outlined above. The only way to break into the cycle of failure is the human element. Present reality to those who would stab out their own eyes to avoid seeing it... Not a very effective approach, but the other options are impossible.

When bearing truth into the presence of people who do not want it, hostility is expected...

The crypto duck has been rejected by an entire layer of economy that no other coin can address, because no other coin can address it. Vendors. How can a coin gain adoption when it can't be used anywhere? Why would it be possible to use it anywhere when it's use is a threat to the Vendor? Is this really so fucking hard to understand?

Why is Lamassu ATM bullshit even considered, much less all this money sunk into it? ATMs are a band-aid for BitClone problems that DASH doesn't have! Why are DASH Debit Cards even a consideration? If that money that was wasted had been spent on making DASH Vendor friendly, not just ponzi-head friendly, I'd be buying groceries with DASH right now... But, instead, the ponzi pattern was followed even though DASH doesn't have to follow that pattern. You don't need ATMs or Debit Cards when you can do an end-run around the whole mess and just use DASH! Hello? Isn't that the whole fucking reason DASH exists? DASH was designed to eliminate the need for those band-aids. How can the very people who created it not seem to understand their own creation? If you want to eliminate the band-aids, you have to actually create the real-world use-ability. You do not merely eliminate the defects that necessitate the band-aids, you have to create the infrastructure that provides for the direct use. Continuing to give precisely zero fucks about that leaves DASH as the only coin that can, yet still not doing it... If DASH can do this, why were ATMs and Debit Cards even considered in the first place? You're putting band-aids on boo-boos that don't exist, just because everyone else is doing it. Just to look busy. Just to collect some money to solve a problem that isn't a problem...

It would have cost a fraction to develop a simple vendor app that was familiar to the systems vendors already use, it can be done with existing infrastructure... If I'm such a fucking useless retard troll, why is it I've got the whole thing ironed out, yet none of the omnipotent devs have even thought about it?

Now comes the capitalism. Why should I do it for any less than what you've already pissed away on dumb shit? Where's my incentive? Why should dumb shit get tens of thousands of dollars pumped into it, but an actual good idea, that is already researched and pretty much ready to go, better present itself for free? If you're willing to throw $50,000 down a hole, why should I do something real and useful for any less? Do you not realize you're setting a higher price tag on dealing with you every time you make a stupid choice? If you're willing to set money on fire and watch it burn, why should anyone work for you for a lower price than you're willing to burn on nothing? The issue is, you don't realized you're doing it, because you're a bunch of Dorys with no concept of reality. You have no idea the cause and effect. You're in way over your heads, and refuse to grow up. Who wants to deal with that? What business wants to sign up to play that game?

A hot girl gave you her phone number. But, you never called her because you couldn't find her name in the phone book... You don't need the phone book, but you stick to the pattern because it's what everyone else does... And you sit there and do nothing, even though the number is already in your hand, because you find yourself unable to complete a step that you don't even need to take! That's stupid. You spend every penny from your meager savings to buy a phone book for every city in the country. You never find her name. Hell, you don't even know what her last name is, how could you match a pattern with no input? Ah, it doesn't matter, it wasn't really your money. You'll get a big pile of it to waste on dumb shit again next month! And when she finds out about it, she doesn't want you to call anymore. She tells her friends the story about how incredibly fucking dumb you are, and none of them want to talk to you, either... Eventually, everyone in town has heard the story, because it's so hilarious they can't help but spread it around, and you can't even walk up to a girl without her bursting into laughter before you even open your mouth. But, you never go outside and meet anyone, so you never experience that... No way to realize you even did a dumb thing, even though the whole world is laughing at you... This is you, MNOs.
 
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So, lying with manners = good.

Ugly truth = bad.

Feelings! So many feelings!

Its like you play yourselves on their behalf...

This is why you can't be taken seriously by grown ups in the real world. Its all about the feelz, yo! Stay hidden in your safe space. Lash out at anyone who shows what you look like from outside your echo chamber looking in... Just call it trolling and bad manners and you can keep pretending it isn't so. Pathetic.

Begging to be a sucker because you won't have to admit it as long as you cling to the narrative...

Absolutely nothing was addressed that was raised as a concern. And you don't care. Because its more important to "be offended."

Notice how every reply addresses tone, feelings, presentation, manners... Every possible distraction. Not one word responding to actual content. If you had a defense or even a plausible argument, you would present it. But, you don't have one. You have to resort to these dishonest tactics of distraction and misdirection instead.
 
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So, lying with manners = good. Ugly truth = bad. Feelings! So many feelings! Its like you play yourselves on their behalf...
This is why you can't be taken seriously by grown ups in the real world. Its all about the feelz, yo! Stay hidden in your safe space. Lash out at anyone who shows what you look like from outside your echo chamber looking in... Just call it trolling and bad manners and you can keep pretending it isn't so. Pathetic.
Begging to be a sucker because you won't have to admit it as long as you cling to the narrative...
Absolutely nothing was addressed that was raised as a concern. And you don't care. Because its more important to "be offended."
Notice how every reply addresses tone, feelings, presentation, manners... Every possible distraction. Not one word responding to actual content. If you had a defense or even a plausible argument, you would present it. But, you don't have one. You have to resort to these dishonest tactics of distraction and misdirection instead.


yup..you are right. But your talk is also feelings. And feelings again. And arguments, that fly in the air and cannot be implemented in code, so they are just moral arguments. It is good for you to try to turn humans into moral beings, but is morality the problem we are trying to solve here?

You did not said to us what changes should be done IN THE CODE, in order to avoid such incidents in the future (taking into account the fact that humans may switch to immorality sometimes). What is your proposed solution to be applied in the source code of the dash program? Do you have any, or you just whining?

Lets count all proposals that mention changes that should be done IN THE CODE of dash in order to avoid similar incidents in the future. And lets vote for the best solution.

1) demo's generic solution (that is supposed to solve all kind of problems and not only this one)
2) demo's specific solution that aims to solve the specific problem. Could be implemented standalone, or even better implemented as a dormant plugin into the above generic solution, ready to be activated in the runtime if this is the decision of the votechain. (my solution is hidden due to negative ratings, so please hit "show message" button to see it)
3) Any other solution proposed?

Am I the only one (once again) who proposes real solutions (that can be implement directly into the source code of dash) instead of ranting and whining ?
 
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I did submit a solition, over a year ago, pre-emptively, before this thing that I knew wold be a mess was implemented. Just because you hadn't shown up yet does not mean that it did not happen. Nor did you go look for it... So...
 
I did submit a solition, over a year ago, pre-emptively, before this thing that I knew wold be a mess was implemented. Just because you hadn't shown up yet does not mean that it did not happen. Nor did you go look for it... So...

Can you give us a link?
 
Let us analyze the Lamassu ATM “success”:
  • Lamassu, Inc. has 168 ATMs in total (source), admittedly a paltry number;
  • ONLY one (1) out of 168 has DASH enabled so far (source);

Sorry guys didnt read all of your comments but I did read allot tho.. U guys have allot to say :D

Is this the case ? did Lamassu only enable one ATM with Dash ??
if so WTF ??
 
This really all boils down to that internet marketing is a huge waste of money.. Organic marketing is free so lets focus on a stellar product and put zero effort into magic internet puff..
 
640



So let me get this straight "The dash guy" went ape shit over the new web page budget and spending , got commissioned to do it and has not delivered..this webpage is a pain in everybody's bum, just sell us some www.templatemonster.com template and be done with it..
 
Conclusion and Call to Action
I am calling the masternode owners and / or community members to:

  1. request a 3rd party FULL AUDIT of the business expenses, especially those I outlined herein;
  2. DE-FUND the PR Fall Campaign (Aug) proposal (here) because of the reasons I outlined herein;
  3. DE-FUND the further Lamassu ATM development, for the reasons I outlined herein at least until these never-ending "open issues" are resolved;
  4. create a set of rules for all proposals that would have to have clearly outlined goals, objectives, delivery milestones etc., and bring accountability back into this project before it's too late;
  5. demand some REAL TRANSPARENCY from the people steering a boat representing a $60M ++ market value that produces a budget of now staggering $69,722.64 a month, money that can not be wasted but used with the utmost respect, efficiency, transparency, care and business acumen.
Thank you for your time.

And here is how masternodes owners responded .

Dont you see that there is an obvious problem in your 1000 dash masternode tarrif model?
Dont you see that whales are not enough, and that you also need some other species to be able to vote in your ecosystem?
 
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US$70k a month staggering? That is peanuts compared to what small banks pay for advertising for local campaigns! Dash needs to seek international exposure.

Transparency is a great thing and I agree with it. If you are dissatisfied, you can always take your money to some other blockchain and you can do so with a few mouse clicks. Is that not the best transparency of all?
 
And here is how masternodes owners responded .

Dont you see that there is an obvious problem in your 1000 dash masternode tarrif model?
Dont you see that whales are not enough, and that you also need some other species to be able to vote in your ecosystem?

Demo, I have put you on "parole" here, because when you are in good mood you can be a good source of info (as you have been digging around, while I haven't had enough time to be moping around here lately... Anyway, it is against my nature to ignore people, I really feel sad with it) So, I'll try to share with you what I believe is the logic behind this stuff, that at least makes sense in my head, and I hope that I will not be speaking to the walls.

The most important premise to have in mind is that DASH is not a monopoly. (*1) If one is not satisfied, he can avoid buying DASH, or sell what he already has and buy into any other thing... he can even fork DASH and do the perfect cryptocurrency of his dreams.

A focus point to consider is the fact that the more someone has invested in a project, the more they want it (even, depend on it) to succeed (unless the "investor" is not an investor, but an attacker (*2)). So, unless the person is a complete stupid, it is expected that he will think thoroughly about a proposal before voting on it.

Potentialy good decisions will be made. But even if the decisions are not as good as they should have been, the ones to lose more, are the Masternode owners. Each and every person will lose or gain in proportion to their holdings, so it seems fair to me that the bigger holders have a specific way to make decisions on the network. (*3)

(*3) Why is it important that the bigger holders have a specific way to make decisions on the network?

Because the other players already have their own voice (their specific way to make decisions on the network):
  • Miners: their voice is the hashrate. If the so called "core team" acts dishonestly, or if the Masternoders make bad decisions, the Miners will respond, by mining a "better coin". Likewise, if the market decides to fly elsewhere, the hashrate goes together;
  • Developers: (and here I equal "core team" to developers, because that's how I understood DASH nowadays) Their voice is the hability to put into code what the system needs (in their perspective, ultimately). But if they act against the will of the other parts, irresposibly, dishonestly, and even arrogantly, they risk be left alone... and what is the use to be left alone on a P2P cryptocurrency network: without investors, without users, without the market DASH value is ZERO;
  • Merchants: If DASH proves to be worth, the merchants will adopt it. If it appears to be scam, they will ignore it... anyway, if there are plenty of users, the merchants will stay with DASH. Merchants want a useful currency (not a fairy tale democracy);
  • Users: If DASH proves to be worth, the users will adopt it. If it appears to be scam, they will ignore it... anyway, if there are plenty of merchants, the users will stay with DASH. Users want a useful currency (not a fairy tale democracy);
  • The Market: The Market will put their money on what they believe will give them a good return. If DASH is a dreamers land voting system, or if DASH is a scam to benefit a superior caste (be it named core or masternoder or whatever), the Market will also ignore DASH. The price will reflect the value: a serious project has more value, so it tends to have a better market price;
  • The Masternode owners: Are risking their pockets... they must make the correct choices.... or die ;)
Do you notice the balance? Each of these players have got their own ways not only to influence, but to efectively control the way DASH develops. One depends, and must respect, the other.

Before, the "bigger investors" were like hostages of the other players, because they did not have a voice of their own. So they didn't care, they could fly from one cryptocurrency to the other (pumps and dumps). Now, DASH brought them the possibility to have a voice on the network, and better, providing important core services: the soul of the DASH (*4)

(*4) What is the Soul of the DASH?
I will repeat myself again here... better yet, out of lazyness, I'll quote myself:
Have you noticed how fast it is to sync a DASH full node (compare it with bitcoin or ethereum or whatever). Will 50 dash masternodes be as reliable? You are too focused on "voting". But voting is not DASH's real focus. Voting is as important as nada if DASH is not even able to do the basic: being a decent digital cash.

Full disclosure: I despise all this nonsense focus on democracy to this project, because this is a waste of time.

DASH has got exactly the same upper limit of decentralization of any other blockchain based currency, including bitcoin. The Masternodes are not the only full nodes on the DASH network: the miners are full nodes, and even your home DASH core is as full node as any other. The difference is: the Masternodes are nodes with a minimun quality requirement (at least running 24/7 on fast VPS, and all other bla bla bla that will allow you to sync your home node reliably faster than any other shitcoin, and also to provide reliable mixing service <- the most important when it comes to DASH). Prove that your 2 dash home node connected to a shit ISP will be as reliable as a seriously hosted one, and you win the game.

Now, regarding "democracy": It should be adopted into DASH as long as it is the strict necessary for the minimum necessary governance of the cryptocurrency. IMHO, if we waste too much time discussing, instead of acting, DASH is doomed.

What is DASH's vocation: to be a decent digital cash or to be an attempted improvement of Brazilian's sick voting machine?

I would prefer that we leave the "world democracy dream" to a specifit separate project, lest we end up with neither the cash nor the honest voting...

(*2) attacker, because a very rich entity cound potentially buy up a hubongous amount of DASH, and put up Masternodes in order to make bad decisions, aiming to destroy the network... in this case, the price of DASH will increase so marvelously, that all the previous DASH owners (even the 1 DASH owners) will have sold it with a very good profit, anyway, and won't be affected by the destiny of the project.

I have been considerate to you, trying to honestly put these comments here, I hope you can make a good use of it. I have got no intentions to take this conversation any longer, though, simply because it is not the most important thing to my life... as implied above, (*1) if DASH starts a weird nonsense journey with dubious decisions, I have no problems selling all I have, because there are some good projects out there that I can keep my hard earned money in ;)

Ok, bye, it's sunny, and I am going to the beach :cool:

edit: to try to stick to the subject of this thread, my opinion: I wish DASH gave a little more importance to the contributions from individual users, independent contributions, instead of only focusing their attention to "the core"... and this message is mainly to the Masternoders...
The core team is doing their job, and I am ok with it up to now (nothing can be perfect for everyone), but the rest of the community seem to be too dependent of the "core", and is forgetting about the rest....
As I have said elsewhere: support, recognition, attention, the deserved manifestation of gratitude towards individual efforts from the community, are great examples of incentives (much more efficient than money, most of the times), but I fear that sometimes the community does not see things this way...
ok, if this is already our "corporate model", so I think that makes sense, anyway...
 
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