Checkerama
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I corrected the math btw, sorry for saying a month. 8% a year. Still ridiculous for just sitting on it and renting out a AWS server. Even value investors take more risk than you do.
DASH mining in any capacity is officially dead
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I corrected the math btw, sorry for saying a month. 8% a year. Still ridiculous for just sitting on it and renting out a AWS server. Even value investors take more risk than you do.
Dandy
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Masternode would generate about 80 Dash in that time, so your 970 doesn't sound so bad.
Checkerama
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It doesn't until I start adding all the REAL costs. Electricity already takes away half of that DASH alone. You're sitting on 1000 DASH. I'm actually working. Let's be realistic here.
Checkerama
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Do I need to calculate the hours needed to maintain such a facility? The bodies I would need to do the maintenance? The rent for the WAREHOUSE I would need to get to store 300 DASH miners? The parts I would need to replace because they would burn out? THE INITIAL INVESTMENT I would need to make NOT just on the D3s but also to make my warehouse airflow viable enough to prolong the life of these miners? I'm not putting these at home sitting on my ass and remoting into them from a user-friendly interface.
Checkerama
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And yes, I would definitely still hold all my profit margins in DASH, because I'm not an asshole trying to make short term profits. I would sell off what is required to maintain and pay my employees, and hopefully, one day, get a MN and SIT ON 1000 DASH and pay a measely what? 30 bucks a month to run an AWS server? 5 dollars for a VPN server? JUST so I could get ONE ACTUAL vote on the network.
Checkerama
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Well, that's why I bought a masternode
In any case, even with the miners you've got at the moment, I think if you calculate the ROI, you'll get more than 8% back on your investment per year.
With my current miners I won't even break even until two years later unless DASH prices increase fourfold (break even at 6 months) and I spend my own money (sell none of the DASH) on electricity and maintenance. Do we see where I'm going with this?
Also, if we were to traditionally calculate ROI for MNOs, they do not make 8% back per year because they can pull out their 1000 DASH at any time. They would make more than that. FAR MORE than that.
You dont SPEND 1000 DASH, you HOLD 1000 DASH, so thats not an investment. Your ROI would be the money you spent on the AWS server and VPN service. How much do you spend on that? I'll edit the calculation when you give me more accurate numbers:
Assuming you even spend 50 bucks a month, that's 600 dollars a year to gain back 36,0000 worth of DASH.
Your ROI is 60,000%. Not including whatever price increase DASH goes through and increases your 1000 DASH valuation.
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Dandy
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We can argue about this without end...
Dash is made this way, you knew this when you bought the miners. Nobody forced you to do it.
Live with your decision and stop trying to put the responsibility on someone else.
Also, I don't think Dash price will increase fourfold in the next two years. I think it will increase at least twentyfold.
Dash is made this way, you knew this when you bought the miners. Nobody forced you to do it.
Live with your decision and stop trying to put the responsibility on someone else.
Also, I don't think Dash price will increase fourfold in the next two years. I think it will increase at least twentyfold.
Checkerama
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No this is pretty much the end unless you can explain to me why sitting on 1000 DASH entitles you to an ROI 5 times more than the people who literally generate your profits. MNOs are leeches off of the people who do the actual work on the network - miners.
They're neither so much so vital that it is needed that they own servers and sit on half of the liquidity of the DASH network that we would fail if even half of them sold off their DASH, nor are they making any real network decisions other than being idiots on budget propositions and voting for the most ridiculous, least ROI incentive advertising campaigns I have ever seen in my life as a business owner.
And without the liquidity, if DASH price increases twentyfold, Bitcoin will increase hundredfold, because no one takes DASH seriously as a transactional value network but rather as a hedger whenever bitcoin goes through one of its drama stages. You do realize they're DASH's main competitor right? They're not your friend, or any cryptocurrency promising to be of transactional value's friend (I'm looking at you, LTC)
And yeah, I knew this coming in, and maybe I should've crunched up the numbers, but the amount of reek I smelled as soon as I got onto these forums and only being lectured by MNOs about "you took a risk and you lost" really got me thinking, "is this why DASH is so shit? is this why the technology is going to waste on a bunch of greedy assholes who think nothing about the future of DASH but rather play politics on advertising campaigns?"
So, I set out to prove my point here. And I did. Hopefully people will either reconsider their investments or try to fix this sinking ship before the MNOs eat up anything that will be left after BITCOIN beats them to the punch of what they're actually trying to accomplish.
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Dandy
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Because I put money that I saved for the previous 20 years in a Dash project that could've just as easily failed and I would be left with 1000 pieces of nothing.
So I AM an investor and I risked a lot of money.
It's easy to see that Dash has great potential now, but it wasn't really that obvious a year ago.
I host the masternode myself. I have a high-end machine dedicated to it and I plan on getting a gigabit network connection soon, so I'll be ready for an increase in requirements when the Evolution update is finished.
And thank you for calling me an idiot. I appreciate your opinion.
So I AM an investor and I risked a lot of money.
It's easy to see that Dash has great potential now, but it wasn't really that obvious a year ago.
I host the masternode myself. I have a high-end machine dedicated to it and I plan on getting a gigabit network connection soon, so I'll be ready for an increase in requirements when the Evolution update is finished.
And thank you for calling me an idiot. I appreciate your opinion.
Checkerama
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If you voted for that aeroplane advertising bullshit to pass, I would be calling you an idiot. If you didn't, congratulations - you're not an idiot.
And if you ACTUALLY ended up with 1000 pieces of nothing (which you don't btw, idk how many times I have to say it would take a dip then rise again because liquidity in the market would increase its demand), that would be a surprise to both me and you. I believe my proposition would see to it that DASH doesnt remain a hedger for bitcoin because of small investors (end users, who btw generate far more liquidity than MNOs ever will) being too scared to join the network in fear that the MNOs would dump half of the supply at any moments notice, and instead begin to compete with it for the position it deserves as the #1 transactional digital coin network.
Checkerama
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I'm interested in hearing this. Tell me about this set-up you have and the ACTUAL investment you make into it so I can make a more realistic comparison for analysis sake.
Also, it's not an investment if you don't spend, and if I changed my USD to EUR its not an investment into euros either - so stop calling 1000 DASH lock an investment.
Dandy
Active member
When you buy shares of a company, is that not an investment?
With the Dash governing system, it is a lot like a company.
The machine for a masternode cost me about 1200€, I think. Gigabit network will probably be about 70€ a month.
I don't pretend that cost of the masternode is comparable to the cost of the miners for the ROI purposes, at least not right now. In the future, there are plans to make special hardware for the MNs, but that's still far off.
With the Dash governing system, it is a lot like a company.
The machine for a masternode cost me about 1200€, I think. Gigabit network will probably be about 70€ a month.
I don't pretend that cost of the masternode is comparable to the cost of the miners for the ROI purposes, at least not right now. In the future, there are plans to make special hardware for the MNs, but that's still far off.
Checkerama
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It's a fair point, but I think its more comparable to Forex than it is a stock... for obvious reasons.
People believe other people will adapt a currency more, thus increasing its strength (as any forex-minded individual would imagine) and profitability. It's like Zimbabwe vs USD... USD went up as soon as Zimbabwe started using that to deal with their transactions (beats buying an apple for 3 million of whatever their currency is), thus this makes it more of a gamble than an investment. You believe people will adopt more DASH, thus you buy more DASH. Same with bitcoin (or even more so since half of their liquidity isnt being held up by less than 4000 people.)
It's also like "investing" in a bank. Banks offer no real service other than to hold someones value (any extraneous belief that they do is misconstrued as a unique service that would otherwise be implemented elsewhere without their existence, like loans and credit, which is why theyre all crying now that digital currencies exist). So investing in a bank is also a gamble - you "invest" because you think the bank has a plan to garner more people to store more of their cash in there.
Do you own any other services? VPN possibly?
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Checkerama
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Well I do appreciate the information and the debate, I think the knowledge here has made my tools a little sharper. Thanks for being a good MNO sport.
@Checkerama I corrected you about decentralization. You didn't like it and responded by complaining about the inequality between MNOs and miners. Tbh, you seem more preoccupied with "fairness" and USD prices.
Dash is an economic model. Monero is an economic model. All coins are unique economic models; economic policies enacted in code. You don't like dash, doesn't fit your worldview about economics, I'm fine with that, you are free to move on. But imo, many cryptos can't scale (unless they are intentionally targeting a niche).
But I'll give you this. You might ultimately be right, that dash's economic model will fail - who knows? - but from where I am standing (with absolutely nothing to do with USD value), dash has a chance of fulfilling it's goal.
And btw, you're free to call me an idiot because I voted yes for the aerosports project and I'm happy with that decision.
And yes, 1000 dash is an investment. An investment of my time to make "bullshit decisions" about aeroplanes.
Dash is an economic model. Monero is an economic model. All coins are unique economic models; economic policies enacted in code. You don't like dash, doesn't fit your worldview about economics, I'm fine with that, you are free to move on. But imo, many cryptos can't scale (unless they are intentionally targeting a niche).
But I'll give you this. You might ultimately be right, that dash's economic model will fail - who knows? - but from where I am standing (with absolutely nothing to do with USD value), dash has a chance of fulfilling it's goal.
And btw, you're free to call me an idiot because I voted yes for the aerosports project and I'm happy with that decision.
And yes, 1000 dash is an investment. An investment of my time to make "bullshit decisions" about aeroplanes.
Checkerama
Active member
Well shit at least you gave me something - also, I countered your position about it being decentralized. I'm preoccupied with the future of DASH as its vision intends, nothing more. If I made negative profits from mining but still got a decent amount of DASH, I would make that investment. Currently though, it would seem that any equivalence in hashrate power would never make mining profitable at any point in time (doesnt matter the equipment and it doesnt matter the DASH price unless it somehow beat bitcoin fourfold), thus the MNO shpeal I gave after (it was also intended to showcase an example where DASH's "decentralization" would fail. It evolved into a discussion about fairness when Dandy decided to defend MNO "investment" positions, which he took like a good sport.)
And no, 1000 DASH is not an investment. Please stop calling it an investment. I don't even call it an investment when I buy bitcoins. Its simply exchanging currency for another. You are not an investor because you bought into cryptocurrencies - you're a speculator. Investment is what you spend on your masternodes or in mining gear (and for the last time, locking in 1000 DASH is not SPENDING 1000 DASH)
Currently, bitcoin is the only crypto that will scale. Sure its got its drama going on with the whole thing about hard forks and all that shit, but its got the community, its got the backing, the ease of access, the liquidity, the PROPER decentralization (because my mining power AND money will ACTUALLY give me power to change either network when it hard forks), AND the network hashrate to avoid potential DDOS. It also has a market - anywhere I can use DASH, I can also use Bitcoins, and more... FAR MORE. You should all be scared if it gets its shit together and starts scaling the blocks to provide for ease of transaction.
Also to prove my point, tether news just broke out and people are hedging their cryptos into DASH again. Welcome to DASH, the hedger for all cryptocurrencies LOL.
https://tether.to/tether-critical-announcement/
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Pretty much everything could be construed as "speculation". I don't care for the words you choose - investment, speculation ,who cares - but tbh, I want to call it an investment simply because I know it irritates you! :-D
As for bitcoin. I'm sure it will always have it's disciples to the very end, but it will surely lose it's crown. Businesses that once accepted bitcoin are either dropping it completely (sticking with visa/mc), or switching to other cryptos. The magical "store of value" will be the only leg it can stand on.. until it breaks that leg. When a scalable crypto goes mainstream, the market depth will become a store of value, at which point, who needs bitcoin? (apart from a few diehards)
More so. There's probably a lot of bitcoin sitting on exchanges these days because it's just too slow and expensive to move. It may be a stupid thing to do but I think it's real. Now imagine the nightmare when Coinbase gets hacked.
RIP bitcoin.
Checkerama
Active member
You're a funny guy I'll give you that :-D You don't even know the difference between investment and speculation. Then you wonder why I call MNOs idiots.
If it loses its crown, it'll be to a hard fork and to another version of bitcoin. Coinbase has already gotten hacked - people panic sold, then other people bought the dip. Same thing happened with Bithumb, same thing happened with OKEx, same thing happened with GDAX... keep hedging your hopes though. At least the lack of liquidity keeps DASH under the radar for no one to care about hacking it.
https://themerkle.com/coinbase-user...-negligence-company-claims-no-responsibility/
http://bgr.com/2017/07/05/bitcoin-exchange-hack-bithumb/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-okex-hacked-for-3-mln-police-not-interested
But you've peaked my interest on these "other businesses" who have completely dropped bitcoin or any variation of it in favor of other cryptos. Mind naming one?
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