Dash Core Team Accountability and Lack of Communication

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TroyDASH said:
I didn't notice anybody labeling Ericsammons, fible1, or anyone else who opposed the business development proposal a troll for expressing their point of view. The OP of this thread hasn't gotten flak either
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All the troll rates are coming from a small group of people. It is the same people who rate positively @Minotaur , the project manager of lamassu. So the rates here in this forum are somehow reversed. If you receive many troll rates, probably you are doing a good job, as long as @Minotaur is the one who received the more likes.

The correct thing to do is to change the software of the forum and do not to show only the sum of the likes or the troll rates of a member. But also to show the distribution of those rates, how many unique people rate you like that. Because some people are casting bomb troll rates and bomb likes. It seems to me they have this as a job and, who knows, maybe they get paid for that.
 
I rarely agree with @demo, but even a broken clock is right twice a day... This place is the definition of a snowflake echo chamber. Hate anything that is even slightly critical of the Pied Piper... Instead of calling them racist, misogynist, etc, they just use "troll" instead...

In a way, it's a good thing that the DGBB is a joke. If these rubes were actually calling the shots the project would be dead, not just getting scammed... I'm not sure that it's moving forward, but at least it's moving and has a pulse...

I guess a ponzi investor can consider that it must have some kind of value if it's worth scamming...
 
Can anyone give an example of a perfect governance system? I can't, I don't think such a thing exists so in the absence of a better alternative the best path is to start with something simple and address whatever issues arise. That was the path Bitcoin was taking with crypto but at some point they dropped the ball (or had the ball taken from them) and that opened up an opportunity for an alt to pick up the ball and run with it, Dash ran with it and addressed weaknesses that had shown up over time in Bitcoin and it will do the same with its own governance structure. This stuff doesn't happen by magic, 12.1 took a huge amount of work and lays the foundations for those improvements and actually implementing them will take even more work, more time and effort but the path is a sound one. If we could write code just by wishing it into existence then we'd all be happy, things would be fixed in an instant but unfortunately we can't, real people have to spend real time fixing these real issues.
 
stan.distortion said:
Can anyone give an example of a perfect governance system? I can't, I don't think such a thing exists so in the absence of a better alternative the best path is to start with something simple and address whatever issues arise. That was the path Bitcoin was taking with crypto but at some point they dropped the ball (or had the ball taken from them) and that opened up an opportunity for an alt to pick up the ball and run with it, Dash ran with it and addressed weaknesses that had shown up over time in Bitcoin and it will do the same with its own governance structure. This stuff doesn't happen by magic, 12.1 took a huge amount of work and lays the foundations for those improvements and actually implementing them will take even more work, more time and effort but the path is a sound one. If we could write code just by wishing it into existence then we'd all be happy, things would be fixed in an instant but unfortunately we can't, real people have to spend real time fixing these real issues.
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Agree with that. The key thing for me about Dash's gov system is basically decentralization. If you "follow the money", Dash is the only crypto that doesn't centralize funding, e.g. controlling donations, premine, dev-tax, whatever. Devs in Dash have to win funding through performance each month and within a market place where anyone can compete for that funding and regular intervals the core team lose proposals. It really makes other cryptos look centralized / totalitarian. In terms of how granular the network can control things down to e.g. code level, that's a rabbit hole, and it's early days.
 
This is quite an interesting topic. This is a very simplistic question, but why do some feel MN's can't tweak the governence system? Why can't changes be made that improve the governance system to their liking?
 
Reuben said:
This is quite an interesting topic. This is a very simplistic question, but why do some feel MN's can't tweak the governence system? Why can't changes be made that improve the governance system to their liking?
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Because the governance system doesn't actually govern anything. Try it. Go submit a proposal for a change to it, and see that the Pied Pipers responsible for the current rube-creation system won't budge or lift a finger.

As I've said so many times before, to a degree, this is a good thing, as the suckernodes are a bunch of idiot brats that shouldn't be trusted with the true path of the project anyway. But this circumstance has the side-effect of exposing that the governance really doesn't do shit, and the corruption or the pork barreling I warned about is in full effect.
 
Reuben said:
This is quite an interesting topic. This is a very simplistic question, but why do some feel MN's can't tweak the governence system? Why can't changes be made that improve the governance system to their liking?
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Besides for the fact that about 1000+ corenodes are controlled by 3 core people and just about any proposal can get voted in or out... As Camo said, the DGGB isn't a governance system at all. It is just a budget payout system based on how many whalenodes you can convince that you should get money. Did Dash increase their block size? That was approved by a vote 1 year ago and NOTHING has happened. Oops. I guess even having a proposal submitted by Evan that gets enough votes doesn't even have significance.

Governance implies that an entity can control you by force. And since Dash isn't under any country structure, it doesn't have a legal system to enforce laws and use police to enforce change. Budget or Payroll system is all it is. But it mainly goes to the core with a little to others to make it look legit. Really a coin like zcash that has a certain % going to actual developers (not just grumpy troll labelers) that actually know what they are doing is a better option.

I suppose a group of core replacements could vote in a proposal to change developers. But it would require every vote to have participation from at least 1100 trollnodes voting for that team. And even then, the core team will probably just hold control of github and the domain even if they stop getting budget funds. They may even kill the budget system and just have funds go back to them..... Oh wait. Could 12.1 be doing that? Wasn't there going to be multiple levels of approval? I bet final approval for any budget payout is done by a core person. I guess Feb 5th we will find out the details...unless it gets postponed again.

Anyway, if you want to change any code with Dash you pretty much need to fork it or jump on an existing fork. I suppose you could be really nice to core people and ask...or maybe find some dirt to blackmail someone, but not likely that either of those will work on a governance code change.

If you want to look at a coin with real 'governance' Tezos is the one. It allows voting the code that goes into a coin. But I don't think it will be the utopia everyone wants. Giving a choice of options to people that have no clue how to code isn't exactly ideal. I still think a solid development team going in the right direction is key. So is that Dash? Ummmm partnering with coinfirm basically makes mixing worthless. And adding 5+ Dash debit card options pretty much makes instantx pointless too.
 
stan.distortion said: ↑
so in the absence of a better alternative
camosoul said:
There were, and still are, several vastly superior alternatives. They were ignored in favor of something that is plain ridiculous. For cause.
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Well, for starters if everyone in core individually submitted proposals, a few people would be fired by blockchain and the cover-ups and corruption might stop. Why are there 17 people getting paid peanuts when most of them are on vacation for weeks at a time. Just pay the few people that actually do the work and get the code done.
 
Solarminer said:
I guess Feb 5th we will find out the details...unless it gets postponed again.
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The original 12.1 release date "suggestion" did not include the massive amount of changes that have been made. So lets not ignore that reality. If we did, we'd be losing our objectivity and might be (rightly) labeled trolls for it...

Oh, wait... Anyone who disagrees with the prevailing echo chamber agenda is a troll...
Solarminer said:
most of them are on vacation for weeks at a time.
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I'm taking a 6 month vacation, and the scammers are going to pay me to go! I'm sooo butthurt! I'll be sure to post pictures...

Vote for that one, suckernodes...

This used to be a project that didn't care about the market cap. It was about progress. Now, @kot comes to us with prices in "reports," because that's all there is...

Who broke the vending machine? We now have a piece of wood that drops a water bottle without any clear demonstration that IX was involved. Anyone can monitor the memory pool in BTC or LTC or [insert shitcoin here] and drop a trap door when a payment shows up... That's not a cheap shot at those who are working with what they've got left... But to point out that so little of substance is left... This project has reduced itself tot he ponzi attitude of every other shitcoin.
 
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Yet more irrelevant dick swinging nonsense... You're really on a roll this morning.


P.S. Almost forgot to @camosoul you in... Don't want to miss that bit out after being called out for it here, you might start thinking that your ego is big enough to scare people into behaving like cowards. In your own head you might think you're some sort of Barry big bollocks but if you think anyone on here gives a shit you're sadly mistaken.
 
I turned your setup around on you, and you still don't know it even after I gave you the link...

It might do you well to go read it before you go talking about egos and intimidation. You're buried in your own words. And I didn't do it to be the keyboard warrior you are, or even to "win" at anything. Just used you as a convenient example who happened to stick your neck out at just the time I needed it. A carbon copy of dozens of others here. All I had to do was wait, and there you were... Could have just as easilly been @tungfa, but he's stuck his foot in his mouth enough that he doesn't tangle with me anymore. Like so many others, he knows he's wrong and just doesn't care. Lying for ego is the game...

I'm certain nobody here cares. Did you even read it? There you go, trying to take a shot at me over something I've made pretty clear that I already know... You're so wrapped up in it you didn't even notice your silly attack was DOA. They're just a bunch of rubes too embarrassed to own it. Easier to kill the messenger, which you've proven to be a prime example... Again.

The only one swinging a dick here is you trying to twist and lie to win some keyboard warrior contest.

How many times you going to step on your own dick thinking it's someone else's? I don't think I could have asked for a better example to step up to the plate...

Congratulations!
 
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I'm seeing a lot of bitching but nothing much on how the governance system can be improved. Camo said "several vastly superior alternatives", such as...? It's obvious improvements can be made but complaining about the symptoms does nothing about fixing the problems.
 
stan.distortion said:
I'm seeing a lot of bitching but nothing much on how the governance system can be improved. Camo said "several vastly superior alternatives", such as...? It's obvious improvements can be made but complaining about the symptoms does nothing about fixing the problems.
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Read my signature. Here it is, the vastly superior alternative.
 
Solarminer said:
stan.distortion said: ↑
so in the absence of a better alternative

Well, for starters if everyone in core individually submitted proposals, a few people would be fired by blockchain and the cover-ups and corruption might stop. Why are there 17 people getting paid peanuts when most of them are on vacation for weeks at a time. Just pay the few people that actually do the work and get the code done.
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@Solarminer ... Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? As I recall, the Dash Network paid you a significant amount of money to create and run a Slack channel which you subsequently privatized and attempted to sell. If you want to talk about corruption, we can start with that.

Back to the subject at hand: @babygiraffe @Minotaur thank you for creating the proposal follow-up forum. This will go a very long way!
 
David said:
@Solarminer ... Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? As I recall, the Dash Network paid you a significant amount of money to create and run a Slack channel which you subsequently privatized and attempted to sell. If you want to talk about corruption, we can start with that.

Back to the subject at hand: @babygiraffe @Minotaur thank you for creating the proposal follow-up forum. This will go a very long way!
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@David DashChat was created for the Dash community and was paid less than Tungfa was getting(hardly significant). We first offered to sell the slack to core(Ryan) for any price. He no bid the slack. I would think someone getting $1100 each month would be able to remember things better. Or at least act professionally and not make things up.

It looks like Yidakee was fired from the core team, since he wasn't paid after August. The first trimming of the fat. That should have been publicly mentioned as a positive for Dash since he was very hard on several "concern trolls" and negative on the forums. Now I understand why he wasn't around for the last 4 months to pay the liquidity providers.
 
Solarminer said:
It looks like Yidakee was fired from the core team, since he wasn't paid after August. The first trimming of the fat. That should have been publicly mentioned as a positive for Dash since he was very hard on several "concern trolls" and negative on the forums. Now I understand why he wasn't around for the last 4 months to pay the liquidity providers.
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And I was wondering what happened to @yidakee. The Yidakee case is characteristic of what paid people are doing here in this forum, and how their behavior changes whenever they stop getting money.

Any objective observer should investigate Yidakee's comments and rates, in order to understand the tactics of the paid employees. The past of Yidakee explains the present and the future of the behavior of the paid employees.
 
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