Creating a Venezuela DAO to create the First DASH Nation

[Edgar Caballero]

Hello @DeepBlue,


I am Edgar Caballero leader of Dash Valencia, we are one of the communities that have been motivated by Dash Venezuela; from Valencia we want to thank you for your interest in helping to overcome the crisis that my country has


As members of a Dash community, we want Dash to achieve a great adoption as quickly as possible.


Our community promotes the adoption of Dash in the center of the country, we have advanced, almost without resources, talks with the Carabobo Chamber of Industry , the Chamber of Small and Medium-sized Businesses (CAPEMIAC), the Valencia Chamber of Commerce and even the Valencia World Trade Center (WTC) with whom we have also made some exchanges trying to cover companies and consumers


We have developed an alliance with the Faculty of Economic and Social Sciences of the Carabobo University, centennial institution and of recognized prestige with professors Jorge Ferreira. and Santiago Guevara, both academics researchers who created the Criptoactivos y Cryptocurrencies subject. ,they saw this proposal and the cryptocurrency Dash as a great opportunity for the country and they are analyzing the macroeconomic impact and at the beginning they see it feasible and worthy of being investigated.


We are at your service, to promote this idea


We are thinking of making a treasury proposal so that Dash Valencia and the Carabobo University work on joint projects in cryptoeconomics research and empower Dash at a national level together with Dash Venezuela and the other existing communities.


Prof. José Angel Ferreira is also Vice Rector of the University

 

[ec1warc1]

They have not a horrible economic crisis

Argentina has been in an economic crisis for the past 50 years, at least. Why not give them priority over others? Suriname is a neighbor of Venezuela with high inflation. What about them?

Does the idea in this thread give Venezuelans priority just for being Venezuelans? Does the idea presented in this thread include a substantive plan to do anything that cannot be accomplished using the current governance and funding system?

 

[DeepBlue]

Argentina has been in an economic crisis for the past 50 years, at least. Why not give them priority over others? Suriname is a neighbour of Venezuela with high inflation. What about them?

Does the idea in this thread give Venezuelans priority just for being Venezuelans? Does the idea presented in this thread include a substantive plan to do anything that cannot be accomplished using the current governance and funding system?

Key: sDAO = Sub DAO

The aim of this Venezuela sDAO is for MNOs that have a particular interest in Venezuela to actively participate in providing feedback, support, expertise and funds to support Venezuela convert to DASH. The reason I suggest this sDAO is that it is not favouring one cause as more valid than another, it is simply that there are only so many hours in the day for a MNO to focus their energy, time and funds on a particular project. Each MNO may have an area of knowledge or expertise or for some reason may have a particular interest in an area for funding and development over other areas. Just in the same way that people have different interests. If I speak about myself personally. I am able to contribute more if I study and get to know one subject particularly well. If I do this I can contribute more with more meaningful feedback and suggestions. It is a matter of focus. If I focus my efforts on a particular category I can perform better and I can give more value to it. I have also been very interested in Venezuela as a use case for DASH uptake by a country. If I had unlimited free time then of course I would study other areas of interest but I do not. Therefore I chose to focus on one particular field. In terms of why Venezuela. The fact is Venezuela has taken the most proactive role getting established in DASH earlier than Argentina did and when I was deciding on how I would best serve DASH as an MNO I had to make a decision on an area that I would focus and devote my time.

Other factors why I chose Venezuela to focus my efforts as a project. The use of cryptocurrency is now officially been made legal in Venezuela by a government decree. That means there is no resistance to DASH being established there. There are a number of teams that I have been working with and devoting my time on projects for working out strategies for promoting DASH. I have been working with them and contributing on calls via VOIP for nearly 6 months now. I know these projects well and I know the team leaders well. Once I have a focus to my work I find I can create more ideas and have better insights because I have more background information.

Therefore it is simply a means of focus and limited time and the results are higher quality contribution. Another reason for suggesting a Venezuela sDAO is that other MNOs that also have an interest in Venezuela can focus their energies like me on Venezuela if they feel passionate about it as I do. The Venezuela teams would also benefit from knowledgeable MNOs in their projects rather than MNOs that do not know as much about the subjects and the details for the projects.

If this model should work there is no reason why we could not look at starting other sDAOs e.g. for Argentina and for other types of projects like Africa. Each has their own needs, own projects, own teams with their own strategies for development. So in terms of expertise shared this is one main reason.

Another reason for setting up a specific focus sDAO for Venezuela is that the Venezuela teams themselves would benefit from feedback from MNOs when there is say a dispute within their teams. Disputes are inevitable as individuals may have a different point of view on how things are run and as there are so many varied projects and limited funds. In order to resolve these disputes it is essential that the MNOs involved with an sDAO have a detailed understanding of the background to the projects and the teams and what they are trying to achieve.

Another advantage of the sDAO is that more funds could be made available to focused projects that simply could not get funded by the treasury e.g. There was a proposal for the Guayana conference that the treasury did not vote through. Knowing the Venezuela subject quite well I feel this was great loss of an opportunity for DASH. Guayana region is one of the largest industrial areas of Venezuela and accounts for half of all Venezuela by landmass. A conference there is critical converting Venezuela to using DASH. With an sDAO with enough funds such a conference could have possibly been sponsored.

See this map of Guayana region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaya...a/File:Venezuela_Regiones_Administrativas.svg

The objective of the Venezuela sDAO is not to replace all funding for Venezuela projects and take them away from the main treasury proposals. Rather it is meant as a supplement or backup to it. Therefore if there are some valuable proposals that do not go through treasury main proposal the Venezuela teams could resubmit to the sDAO to see if they could get funding there. Also smaller projects that are not worth submitting to the main treasury could be considered in the Venezuela sDAO.

If other MNOs have particular expertise or interest in creating sDAOs e.g. for Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Africa etc these are of course extremely valuable and worthwhile. The fact is however MNOs only have so many hours in the day to give quality feedback and we cannot focus on everything.We simply cannot do it and give our best. I aim to give the very best contributions I can to my feedback. In order to do that I have to focus and my choice was Venezuela for that focus. We are simply exploring if this concept would have value.

Originally I thought that all MNOs could contribute now I'm thinking it would be better for only MNOs that have a particular interest in Venezuela could contribute. This way other sDAOs could be created for other worthwhile proposals and MNOs with their own interests and knowledge could contribute to their chosen sDAO.

 

[ec1warc1]

providing feedback, support, expertise and funds

• Feedback: OK
• support: OK
• expertise: OK
• funds: How can this organization be certain that goals are accomplished in exchange for the funds paid? What recourse will there be if a provider fails? What recourse will there be if a provider presents fraud as success? How will the organization prevent mismanagement of funds?

 

[DeepBlue]

• Feedback: OK
• support: OK
• expertise: OK
• funds: How can this organization be certain that goals are accomplished in exchange for the funds paid? What recourse will there be if a provider fails? What recourse will there be if a provider presents fraud as success? How will the organization prevent mismanagement of funds?

Thanks ec1warc1 for your great feedback, you are really helping me to think this through.
Funds: How will we certain that goals are archived. Excellent question. First of all the MNOs in an sDAO would have much closer contact with the Venezuela proposal owners than on the normal treasury proposal. e.g. I am speaking with team members on the Venezuela projects several times a week. From the quality of the response to the questions an MNO can get a very good idea how involved a proposal owner is, if they know their proposal or if they have thought it through thoroughly. Getting to know the team is an essential part of ensuring we can trust a team. Therefore to start with I think we would have to start out with teams that we know and have proven to be successful in past projects. Then these teams can then be involved in the screening and selection process themselves.

In terms of how can we be sure that a team delivers on what it says it would. I have proposed to DASH Watch an evidence validation system for proposal owners. This validation system is graded on a scale of 0 to 4 for each statement they proposal owner makes about their project. 0 being the lowest level of validation and 4 being the highest level of validation. I do not know yet if DashWatch will implement my suggestions however they have expressed an interest in this system. However even if DashWatch decide not to implement the system the sDAO could implement this system. Therefore we would request proposal owners to provide regular feedback and to have their feedback validated by evidence. Some examples of evidence include: Photos of the products or services they are providing, video, copies of contracts or agreements etc.

In terms of how we can ensure that what a proposal owner delivers we could have a clear agreement written out on what would be achieved, the schedule and how funds would be released as each landmark of the project is completed. We would have much closer connection with the team leads than a normal treasury proposal because I think MNOs who are investing their own money would want this to ensure their money is being well spent.

If some MNOs wanted to support the sDAO but did not want to spend much time working with the proposals themselves there could be an option for delegation of voting rights to an MNO or MNOs that are willing to invest in the time with the teams. If an MNO that has had rights delegated does not perform those rights could be withdrawn. Building a reputation and proven history of positive contribution would be essential in an sDAO setup because it would be much smaller than the treasury and therefore be more vulnerable to potential bad players or trolls. Therefore I would suggest that because of this added vulnerability a new type of voting power be setup. This would be based not only on the amount of DASH a person contributes but also their proven contribution history to a project with the teams. The teams would start to know who contributes more significantly to a project and this could be factored into the reputation factor. My concern is that with a smaller sDAO and fewer MNOs it could be subject to a troll from possibly another coin who could afford many Masternodes just to have voting power to disrupt the sDAO. Therefore safeguards would need to be built in that would minimise this risk.

Here are a few examples of factors that could be built into an MNOs voting power for such a sDAO

A reputation factor could be derived for each MNO in the sDAO depending on a number of criteria not just the amount of DASH these could be as follows:

1. The reputation of the MNO in the DASH community and a factor given by other MNOs on their contribution to DASH proposals in the past.
2. The contribution of the MNO to the Venezuela projects as voted by the Venezuela teams.
3. The length of time a MNO has been a member DASH forum and other channels at DASH
4. The amount of DASH an MNO contributes to the sDAO.

A factor could be derived from the above criteria. As to how these criteria would be derived we would need some type of voting system for points 1 to 3. Point 4 could easily be derived.

We would need a framework e.g. a website specifically designed so that we could manage and run the sDAO and provide the voting rights that would be required in order to administer this sDAO. This sDAO website creation would be the first funded project of the sDAO but once created the tools could be used for the creation of other sDAOs in the future.

In terms of how could we guarantee the jobs would be undertaken successfully. I would say we would have much greater success than with the current treasury in ensuring the jobs would be successful. Mainly because I could not see MNOs that were part of a sDAO allowing projects to go through that were not completely and thoroughly validated because their DASH is on the line. e.g. the Charlie Shrem proposal would never have gotten through the sDAO because I would have requested that Charlie provide a copy of the contractual agreement with Payza to ensure that what he said was what was going to be delivered. I would have also insisted to speak with Payza to confirm what was said is what would be delivered. I would have also grilled Shrem on every detail of the project over a series of calls and requested evidence of what he said he was going to deliver. If there were any details I was not sure about I, and I'm sure the other MNOs in the sDAO would not OK the project if there were details on a project that were not fully worked out and were watertight. I think this is the benefit of the sDAO. Much closer attention to detail than on our current treasury proposals.

As to how we could 100% guarantee funds were used correctly. I don't think we could do that with any proposal however I am certain we would do a better job than the current treasury set up. Currently MNOs who know very little about projects are voting if they think it sounds good. There are some questions raised and suggestions etc but it would not be anywhere near the level of attention to detail an sDAO would receive with MNOS discussing directly with the team leads all details of a project.

The difference with an sDAO over the current treasury is that the MNOs have "skin in the game" . We would be working with the teams to develop the proposal instead of the current set up of passively waiting for someone to put a proposal forward and determine all the details of the proposal. The MNOs in a sDAO would work with the team leads to develop the proposal ideas to ensure they are right and will have the best chance of being successful.

I have worked with teams remotely for many years and have a quite a lot of experience of working with remote workers. You can quickly tell if someone is truly involved with a project and their motivations based on their responses to detailed questions over many calls and correspondence with the team leads.

 

[AlejandroE]

I have being talking with DeepBlue about this idea and I fully support it. We need a way to fund more projects here in order to get faster results (massification). Yesterday we endedn with these topics:

I think we have to define what you are mention:
- The way mnos will enter to the DAO
- Is there going to be a max number of mnos that can participate? (The bigger the DAO the more descentralized it will be)
- How is going to be measure the voting power: amount of time, amount of quality time (how this is going to be measured? Upvotes and downvotes on comments?) and amount of funds.
- Proposals submission system (is there going to be a fee for anti scam? Is there going to be a limit for each proposal to requesting funds like dashboost? Time of voting?)
- Who is going to manage the funds of the mnos (escrow from the Core?)
- We have to do a interphase (website) for this just like dashboost and dashcentral.
- We must have a neutral auditor in order to supervise the work of the proposals. It is better if this auditor is in ground.
- We need to define what happen if a team submitsa proposal in the treasury and in this DAO at the same time (or either members of the same time or persons who have relations with the team), will this be possible?

Whatever the name that this system has (DAO, subDAO, funding system) it is a brilliant idea to push the work here. It is a win-win for everyone.

Best,
Alejandro

 

[billyjoeallen]

I'm confused. Do the Venezuelans not understand that it was the destruction of property rights (nationalization, basically theft by the government, of foreign investment) that caused the crisis in the first place? There were other forms of socialist mistakes that contributed, such as punishing highly productive people in the form of high taxes to subsidize low productivity people such as the homeless. The leaders are communists and IMO there is no way they will accept anything even remotely resembling a free market solution unless they get a piece of the action. Should Dash pay off Maduro? Venezuela already has the Petro if they want to replace their national currency or the Dash Venezuela people can buy their own masternodes if they have the money to do so. I have enormous sympathy for people hurt by the evil socialist policies of the Venezuelan government, but anything other than simply letting Venezuelans participate in the network like everybody is is either doing a deal with the devil or it's charity work, not business. Who's to say it won't be OUR foreign investment that gets nationalized next?

 

[DeepBlue]

Hello @DeepBlue,


I am Edgar Caballero leader of Dash Valencia, we are one of the communities that have been motivated by Dash Venezuela; from Valencia we want to thank you for your interest in helping to overcome the crisis that my country has


As members of a Dash community, we want Dash to achieve a great adoption as quickly as possible.


Our community promotes the adoption of Dash in the center of the country, we have advanced, almost without resources, talks with the Carabobo Chamber of Industry , the Chamber of Small and Medium-sized Businesses (CAPEMIAC), the Valencia Chamber of Commerce and even the Valencia World Trade Center (WTC) with whom we have also made some exchanges trying to cover companies and consumers


We have developed an alliance with the Faculty of Economic and Social Sciences of the Carabobo University, centennial institution and of recognized prestige with professors Jorge Ferreira. and Santiago Guevara, both academics researchers who created the Criptoactivos y Cryptocurrencies subject. ,they saw this proposal and the cryptocurrency Dash as a great opportunity for the country and they are analyzing the macroeconomic impact and at the beginning they see it feasible and worthy of being investigated.


We are at your service, to promote this idea


We are thinking of making a treasury proposal so that Dash Valencia and the Carabobo University work on joint projects in cryptoeconomics research and empower Dash at a national level together with Dash Venezuela and the other existing communities.


Prof. José Angel Ferreira is also Vice Rector of the University

Hello Edgar, thank you for your post and your interest in this concept. It would be interesting to see what the university think of this concept and perhaps give a different perspective. The aim of this posting is to develop the idea as far as we can and to determine if it might be feasible. Then if shows potential we might decide to run it on a small scale first to iron out the issues. It is only though practical experience and realising the issues with the theoretical model that we can then develop it into something that would work in the real world. There will be issues that we will not think of and I'm sure there will be many challenges to overcome before it could work in a practical sense. I think we have to start somewhere and I hope to hear from other Venezuelan teams what they think about this concept. Thank you for your support.

 

[DeepBlue]

I have being talking with DeepBlue about this idea and I fully support it. We need a way to fund more projects here in order to get faster results (massification). Yesterday we endedn with these topics:

I think we have to define what you are mention:
- The way mnos will enter to the DAO
- Is there going to be a max number of mnos that can participate? (The bigger the DAO the more descentralized it will be)
- How is going to be measure the voting power: amount of time, amount of quality time (how this is going to be measured? Upvotes and downvotes on comments?) and amount of funds.
- Proposals submission system (is there going to be a fee for anti scam? Is there going to be a limit for each proposal to requesting funds like dashboost? Time of voting?)
- Who is going to manage the funds of the mnos (escrow from the Core?)
- We have to do a interphase (website) for this just like dashboost and dashcentral.
- We must have a neutral auditor in order to supervise the work of the proposals. It is better if this auditor is in ground.
- We need to define what happen if a team submitsa proposal in the treasury and in this DAO at the same time (or either members of the same time or persons who have relations with the team), will this be possible?

Whatever the name that this system has (DAO, subDAO, funding system) it is a brilliant idea to push the work here. It is a win-win for everyone.

Best,
Alejandro

Hello Alejandro, as always, you contribute with insightful comments that have got me thinking. I will need some time to sit with your questions. I'll post back when some answers come forward. At the moment I don't have an immediate answer to your questions. This sDAO is a new concept and I don't yet know if anyone has worked through the details of how it would work or if there is an existing model we could use / adapt to fit our needs. If anyone knows of anything could you post here so we could study it and see how we could apply it to this proposal. From some of the comments it appears that some people do not like the concept. It might be good however to continue to develop the concept as far as we can go and see what develops out of it. I really welcome all comments, especially one's with constructive questions like yours. I love this type of feedback because the concept must evolve to be able to handle all issues raised adequately if it is to prove as a robust and worthy venture. It is wonderful to be able to post an idea then receive the feedback like this. Out of the comments, questions and doubts solutions and different perspectives the concept begins to evolve. The idea has already evolved since it was posted based on some interesting and challenging questions raised.

 

[billyjoeallen]

"Accounts found to contain crypto transactions at prices which the government considers to be “undermining the national currency” will be “severely punished,” Vice President Tareck El Aissami said." https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-monitoring-bank-accounts-crypto-transactions/

 

[DeepBlue]

"Accounts found to contain crypto transactions at prices which the government considers to be “undermining the national currency” will be “severely punished,” Vice President Tareck El Aissami said." https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-monitoring-bank-accounts-crypto-transactions/

Hello I read the reports. I don't see anything to be concerned about on these reports. The use a sensationalist heading to catch people's attention and the talk about illegal activity undertaken with cryptocurrency. I think it is perfectly acceptable for any government to take actions against any form of illegal activity whether using crypto or not. The reports do not mention anywhere the government is cracking down on authorized and legal use of cryptocurrency. The article refers to exchanges charging inflated prices to exchange the currencies.

The Venezuelan government has legalized the use of cryptocurrency and is actively encouraging its use, but in a manner that is legal. Articles like this create sensationalist headlines so people read but then when you read the article it has little to do with how the headline was written. I really dislike articles like this because the headlines are misleading and do not fit with the text in the body of the article.

See this article on the Venezuelan Government issuing a decree that the use of cryptocurrency is encouraged and legal : https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-approves-decree-use-cryptocurrencies/ If the government did not want the people to use crypto it would not make it legal.

 

[akhavr]

Thank for your comment however I disagree with your point of view on this. The main problem in Venezuela is no matter what the government does it is sanctioned by other powerful countries. The reason it is sanctioned is because Venezuela did not want to sell its oil without making a reasonable profit. The US wanted their oil and wanted to buy it at a rate where very little profit would be made. The Venezuelan government wanted however to invest 30% of its oil profit into social programs such as housing and education. We have to remember that main stream media is being controlled to give an image of Venezuelan government that is not necessarily wholly accurate. I have seen independent reporters on Venezuela that give a very different image and view of what the Venezuelan government is like. From the independent reports I've seen the Venezuelan government is doing what it can to support the people however it is having its hands tied by external powerful countries that want to get their hands on their oil. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves of any country in the world and, what a surprise, the leadership is painted in a very negative light by the western press. I don't know the full situation I have spent many months researching it however and I've used sources that are not mainstream media and it appears that the mainstream media is not giving the true picture but a distorted one.

The Venezuelan government has fully legalized the use of cryptocurrency in Venezuela with a formal decree. If they did not have the people's best interests at heart I honestly do not see why they would do that.

I would like to thank you on your comment however because it is a valuable comment to move forward this debate. I do agree with you in the respect about taxes and I think many governments, not just Venezuela, could be more efficient at using our Tax money.

My line of thinking applies for any state government, not just the one of Venezuela. Also, I'm not from "the West", I don't read "west media", etc: I'm the resident of Ukraine, country in fighting off Russian aggression (so I know what "the crisis" means). I was born in the USSR and watched it fail, so I know how "social programs" end.

And even if the government of Venezuela was just a pink ponies vomiting rainbows, it doesn't affect my other 3 points: the expected conversion is unrealistic, marketcap calculation is wrong, we'd better to invest into specific projects with measurable ROI.

So, given that, what would be the metrics you're suggesting to measure, how we can be sure that the measures are true, what are the target levels, and how you're suggesting to achieve them.

PS After you've paid taxes, it's no longer your money, it's their money. No keys => no funds.

 

[DeepBlue]

My line of thinking applies for any state government, not just the one of Venezuela. Also, I'm not from "the West", I don't read "west media", etc: I'm the resident of Ukraine, country in fighting off Russian aggression (so I know what "the crisis" means). I was born in the USSR and watched it fail, so I know how "social programs" end.

And even if the government of Venezuela was just a pink ponies vomiting rainbows, it doesn't affect my other 3 points: the expected conversion is unrealistic, marketcap calculation is wrong, we'd better to invest into specific projects with measurable ROI.

So, given that, what would be the metrics you're suggesting to measure, how we can be sure that the measures are true, what are the target levels, and how you're suggesting to achieve them.

PS After you've paid taxes, it's no longer your money, it's their money. No keys => no funds.

Hello @akhavr,
thanks for your comment. My Bad for assuming you were from the West, it is not only interesting but valuable to get your view as a Ukrainian. Not only this you are able to give a invaluable perspective based on the history of your country.

On the expected conversion your point is that it is unrealistic. Could you state specifically what value you would give and give you reasoning. I don't mind people disagreeing with a point of view provided they give their reasons and a value response of your own. If you are not able to give a value of your own i.e. how much you think DASH price would increase to if Venezuela took up DASH as a parallel currency then how can I accept your point that it is unrealistic? Could you provide values and a reasoned argument?

Could you clarify what you mean by after you've paid taxes its no longer your money it is their money? The tax money is theirs yes but the remaining amount is ours because we hold the keys.

All governments of the world are soon going to learn a very important lesson which is this:

Governments work for us. Not the other way around.

Somewhere along the line this important distinction seems to have been forgotten. We pay their salaries with our taxes that makes us the customer. With crypto currency whether they like it or not the people will reclaim their power. Because we DO own our money when it is crypto.And as you say WE hold the keys to that money.

In the UK people that work for the government are referred to as Civil Servants, but currently they do not act this way because they hold the power. With cryptocurrency we hold the power. It will take time. But in the not too distant future the people will hold the power. All value comes from the work of the people and crypto gives us back ownership of that value for the first time in history.

 

[jesccs]

Thank you very much DeepBlue for your consideration and propose this project for the DASH network.

We are honored to direct your eyes to our country and much of that we owe to the work of the DashCCS / Dash Venzuela team.

Our country has enormous potential, not only for our natural resources (oil, gas, minerals, water, etc.) also for our geographical location, the sense of excellence and creativity of its people.

The creation of a DAO Sub for projects in Venezuela is a fabulous and very pertinent idea. Venezuela at this moment is the broth of creativity and enormous opportunities. In addition to the supervision and mentoring of the MNOs, this project has the potential to offer a real ROI for the entire DASH network. Your proposal have a huge potencial to help Dash grow

We, from the AgroCognitive project (and its parent company: Smartbase Group), place ourselves at the disposal of this initiative and we are open to contribute in this initiative.

Thank you very much again.

 

[Juan Baró]

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...nodes-the-real-indenpence-from-bitcoin.39412/

Maybe Venezuela is a good place for start something like Collective masternodes, for people investment in mining PoS and have like stocks and participation in the decisions of proposals. all powered by smart contracts.

 

[Juan Baró]

Argentina has been in an economic crisis for the past 50 years, at least. Why not give them priority over others? Suriname is a neighbor of Venezuela with high inflation. What about them?

Does the idea in this thread give Venezuelans priority just for being Venezuelans? Does the idea presented in this thread include a substantive plan to do anything that cannot be accomplished using the current governance and funding system?

Them can take the oportunity too, but where is the people working? is needed teams there , meanwhile in vzla are a lot of diferent teams and need to grow and improve the work.

 

[Juan Baró]

funds: How can this organization be certain that goals are accomplished in exchange for the funds paid? What recourse will there be if a provider fails? What recourse will there be if a provider presents fraud as success? How will the organization prevent mismanagement of funds?

Colective master nodes.
Deepblue alredy says it

Key: sDAO = Sub DAO

but handled by smartcontracts to own master nodes. not only few persons with 1000dash. thousands of persons owning one masternode with 1000DASH. am working on this and other things.

 

[akhavr]

On the expected conversion your point is that it is unrealistic. Could you state specifically what value you would give and give you reasoning. I don't mind people disagreeing with a point of view provided they give their reasons and a value response of your own. If you are not able to give a value of your own i.e. how much you think DASH price would increase to if Venezuela took up DASH as a parallel currency then how can I accept your point that it is unrealistic? Could you provide values and a reasoned argument?

Checkout this (long) post on the valuation of cryptoassets https://medium.com/@cburniske/cryptoasset-valuations-ac83479ffca7

I've not done the model for Dash in Venezuela, but it's obvious that your model misses some important pieces and would be wrong at least by an order of magnitude.

Could you clarify what you mean by after you've paid taxes its no longer your money it is their money? The tax money is theirs yes but the remaining amount is ours because we hold the keys.

All governments of the world are soon going to learn a very important lesson which is this:

Governments work for us. Not the other way around.

State governments don't work for you. They do work for themselves and only themselves. Ukrainians slowly learn this for last 15 years through two revolutions and a war with Russia. I won't finance any project that tries to somehow to "educate" state officials or "make them understand" or "trying to get a favorable regulation". Better create alternative systems of economic exchange, grow then through the valley of death, create and test new instruments to govern those systems, and beware that, since every governance system is prone to centralization, the economic system should be censorship resistant.

We pay their salaries with our taxes that makes us the customer.

Paying taxes doesn't make you a customer, since you're not free to pay them to a different "provider" or don't pay them at all.

 

[DeepBlue]

@akhavr thanks for sharing your opinions. I know intellectually your country has had a rough time however I understand that I can't fully appreciate to the full extent how bad without living there and experiencing it first hand.

Checkout this (long) post on the valuation of cryptoassets https://medium.com/@cburniske/cryptoasset-valuations-ac83479ffca7

Thanks for the reference I will look at it. I agree my calculation may well be inaccurate. We cannot say however how inaccurate without actually doing the calculations. The fact is that Venezuela GDP was 349 Billion USD in 2017 which is not an insignificant value. If DASH becomes established in Venezuela the amount of these funds that would flow through DASH would depend on how far DASH became adopted. However even if it was only a conservative 10% of GDP that would still 34.9 Billion in DASH. We don't know because we don't know how much adoption of DASH will occur and nobody has undertaken detailed calculations.

Paying taxes doesn't make you a customer, since you're not free to pay them to a different "provider" or don't pay them at all.

I still maintain the people are the customers and we hold the ultimate power. Whether a person chooses to execute their freedom is their choice e.g. they could just move country which is what 5 million Venezuelans have done. We have a choice. It is not an easy choice and I agree we should not have to have to make that choice. But we still have a choice.

State governments don't work for you. They do work for themselves and only themselves.

When you say they *only* work for themselves are you saying that they do absolutely zero for the people in your country? That means they only take the people's money and do nothing. e.g. no roads, no hospitals, no water or sanitation, no education? They have done nothing for the people whatsoever and all the money has gone to them only?

In which case I could state that "The role of Governments *should* be to serve the people.

What I've learned from this forum thread is that it appears that few other MNO's are willing to voluntarily donate their rewards for just one month to set up a sDAO to help Venezuela and other LATAM countries to establish DASH as a sound currency. If other MNOs thought it would be a good idea perusing they would have voiced their support for this concept here. If only a few MNOs donate to the Venezuela sDAO then I wonder how much impact this would make. Perhaps the idea of an sDAO is simply not an idea MNOs think is worthwhile.

 

[akhavr]

Thanks for the reference I will look at it. I agree my calculation may well be inaccurate. We cannot say however how inaccurate without actually doing the calculations. The fact is that Venezuela GDP was 349 Billion USD in 2017 which is not an insignificant value. If DASH becomes established in Venezuela the amount of these funds that would flow through DASH would depend on how far DASH became adopted. However even if it was only a conservative 10% of GDP that would still 34.9 Billion in DASH. We don't know because we don't know how much adoption of DASH will occur and nobody has undertaken detailed calculations.

Here's back-of the-envelope calculation:

1. Let's say 10% of GDP (34.9bln USD) will move to DASH
2. Let's guess that 1mln DASH will be used to serve this GDP.
3. If money velocity in DASH will be 1 (DASH is recycled once a year, on average), then the value of DASH will be around 34900mln/1mln ~$34.9K
4. If money velocity in DASH will be 100 (DASH makes a cycle 100 times a year), then the value of DASH will be around 34900mln/100mln ~$349
5. If velocity will be 100 and 10mln DASH will be used to serve this GDP, then the value of dash will be around 34900mln/10000mln ~$3.49

That's why central banks control the money supply so tight and regulate the money velocity: it can make 10000 times difference.

I still maintain the people are the customers and we hold the ultimate power. Whether a person chooses to execute their freedom is their choice e.g. they could just move country which is what 5 million Venezuelans have done. We have a choice. It is not an easy choice and I agree we should not have to have to make that choice. But we still have a choice.

Yes, the people hold the ultimate power. And it's choice of each person when stop to execute his own freedom. Very few are stubborn enough to defend their freedom with weapons in hands, against all odds.
Unfortunately, most are wowing for "greater power", for example regulating road speed limit, even if the official stats show that not enforced speed limits cause less incidents (example from the ongoing flame in the Ukrainian segment of Facebook)

When you say they *only* work for themselves are you saying that they do absolutely zero for the people in your country? That means they only take the people's money and do nothing. e.g. no roads, no hospitals, no water or sanitation, no education? They have done nothing for the people whatsoever and all the money has gone to them only?

There are roads, hospitals, water, sanitation, education. At least in some places. But guess what? Those services are provided by people and organizations in exchange for money. If we can own our money, then we can agree on a common cause (for example roads), pull the funds, hire the contractor. Why a middleman?

In which case I could state that "The role of Governments *should* be to serve the people.

And I'd like to say that people should be able to fly by the sheer willpower, without any other devices. But, alas, there are laws of nature.

And one of them says, that if you grand one group of people the permission to extort funds without your consent ("taxes"), the society will finally transform from free one, through socialistic, to the outright fascist one.

What I've learned from this forum thread is that it appears that few other MNO's are willing to voluntarily donate their rewards for just one month to set up a sDAO to help Venezuela and other LATAM countries to establish DASH as a sound currency. If other MNOs thought it would be a good idea perusing they would have voiced their support for this concept here. If only a few MNOs donate to the Venezuela sDAO then I wonder how much impact this would make. Perhaps the idea of an sDAO is simply not an idea MNOs think is worthwhile.

As I've said before: it's a question of (1) ROI, (2) risks, and (3) governance.