Patellaport
New member
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Budget Proposal: Hire Bitcoin Core Developer to work for Dash
- Thread starter Patellaport
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You have some interesting points and whilst I would support such a move I can't help but be sceptical about any of the core developers taking us up on our offer. You're basically asking them to jump ship in the hope of... So they'll be accepting a contract which will be a monthly one.
It would be great for marketing. But, I wonder how committed a btc dev would be.
Unless we choose a real professional person (not too much emotionally attached to BTC), I'm affraid a btc developer would not do his best for DASH: He could only be here for the buck, or his presence could turn out to be unproductive to the team (if pride causes a "war of egos", for example).
Unless we choose a real professional person (not too much emotionally attached to BTC), I'm affraid a btc developer would not do his best for DASH: He could only be here for the buck, or his presence could turn out to be unproductive to the team (if pride causes a "war of egos", for example).
That's a lot of money you're proposing to give them - not even Dash core devs get anywhere near that. And I think that your estimated benefits from the proposal may not go as planned. It sounds extremely idealistic, and that's probably an understatement. I read a whole of of "it would's" in there, which take a lot of your desired outcomes for granted, and that might not be how things really turn out at all.
I don't think that it would take that long... you even mention Evolution yourself a few paragraphs down, and how that would bring attention to Dash. And honestly, I don't think that a Bitcoin core dev working on Dash would be a necessity — look how far it's come already with our current team.
It might not strengthen the team, though. In fact, isn't there also a possibility that it could weaken it? What if Mike (or whomever) doesn't agree with the other Dash developer's direction?
I'd say we already have a solid team, and I would be worried that too many minds working on the same task could be counter-productive, re: Brooks' Law.
It seems like this would be a publicity stunt to get attention rather than an actual need for a Bitcoin core dev on the Dash team. Evolution's coming along in its own time and I think that the current Dash development leadership is doing a pretty good job. Personally, I don't feel that hiring another dev at a hugely inflated salary is something that we really need right now.
That sounds like a lot of hopium, and I would be worried about too much publicity too soon. There's a reason the Dash core dev team didn't release many details on Evolution until about a month or so ago, and why they're waiting until January to unveil a demo to the world.
I don't think that it would take that long... you even mention Evolution yourself a few paragraphs down, and how that would bring attention to Dash. And honestly, I don't think that a Bitcoin core dev working on Dash would be a necessity — look how far it's come already with our current team.
It might not strengthen the team, though. In fact, isn't there also a possibility that it could weaken it? What if Mike (or whomever) doesn't agree with the other Dash developer's direction?
I'd say we already have a solid team, and I would be worried that too many minds working on the same task could be counter-productive, re: Brooks' Law.
It seems like this would be a publicity stunt to get attention rather than an actual need for a Bitcoin core dev on the Dash team. Evolution's coming along in its own time and I think that the current Dash development leadership is doing a pretty good job. Personally, I don't feel that hiring another dev at a hugely inflated salary is something that we really need right now.
That sounds like a lot of hopium, and I would be worried about too much publicity too soon. There's a reason the Dash core dev team didn't release many details on Evolution until about a month or so ago, and why they're waiting until January to unveil a demo to the world.
I also like Gavin Andresen. He is a very honest and serious person. An idealist.
The problem with hiring Bitcoin core devs is in short EGO. All of these guys have immense egos and they all think they're some hot shit and they would charge exorbitant fees. Not only this but they won't work on DASH exclusively. I think it's a pass.
Best case scenario they will accept to be "consultants" which is code for ripoff. I know few such consultants (high profile community heroes) that bankrupted a few crypto projects with exorbitant fees while delivering shitty work.
Most of these Bitcoin devs, "community heroes" are more concerned with building their own credentials and promoting themselves than promoting and helping to grow a project.
Best case scenario they will accept to be "consultants" which is code for ripoff. I know few such consultants (high profile community heroes) that bankrupted a few crypto projects with exorbitant fees while delivering shitty work.
Most of these Bitcoin devs, "community heroes" are more concerned with building their own credentials and promoting themselves than promoting and helping to grow a project.
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@Patellaport
If we were to be associated with a name, I'd say let's hire Nick Szabo to work on some stuff. His mere presence at the Ethereum conference jacked up the price of Ether like crazy.
Some speculated in the past he is Satoshi. Most of the other Bitcoin devs are overpaid and overrated. They were just there in the right place at the right time, fully invested, willing and able to work on Bitcoin.
If we were to be associated with a name, I'd say let's hire Nick Szabo to work on some stuff. His mere presence at the Ethereum conference jacked up the price of Ether like crazy.
Some speculated in the past he is Satoshi. Most of the other Bitcoin devs are overpaid and overrated. They were just there in the right place at the right time, fully invested, willing and able to work on Bitcoin.
crowning
Well-known member
People are in a COMPLETELY different mindset when they are paid for something (like Gavin would) compared to when they BELIEVE in something (like, everyone else right now).
If one of the Bitcoin core-devs would believe in Dash he would already be here.
daf
Active member
Szabo does not seem available to the world...
Exactly what I meant with commitment.
The problem is if they are feeling "embarassed to change teams". It would take some kind of incentive (even some lame excuse) to justify their "mindset change". (I guess this rule would apply to anyone ... Sunk Cost Fallacy effect?).
the idea in general is great
but
it comes down to personal contact (with them) and a commitment (not based on finances)
whatever we can pay will not be what the market give proper programmers these days.
the conferences we will be doing (Miami , Mexico) and the perfect places to make these personal contacts , they do not only have to believe in dash , but in Evan (+ like him , his ideas and his vision)
I am not saying that the conferences will bring us BTC developers , but I think this is a good step in the right direction.
All Altcoin are a market of madness , trolls , fudsters, scam brothers ,.... for the outside people , they hear about us maybe but do not know and trust what is really going on . this takes time !
we are building the right foundation ... and time is on our side !
but
it comes down to personal contact (with them) and a commitment (not based on finances)
whatever we can pay will not be what the market give proper programmers these days.
the conferences we will be doing (Miami , Mexico) and the perfect places to make these personal contacts , they do not only have to believe in dash , but in Evan (+ like him , his ideas and his vision)
I am not saying that the conferences will bring us BTC developers , but I think this is a good step in the right direction.
All Altcoin are a market of madness , trolls , fudsters, scam brothers ,.... for the outside people , they hear about us maybe but do not know and trust what is really going on . this takes time !
we are building the right foundation ... and time is on our side !
stan.distortion
Well-known member
+1, if they have to be paid to take an interest then the price is too high regardless of how much.
The key question to ask is this just a marketing stunt? Because from that perspective it makes perfect sense to get a competing developer to "offically" switch sides.
However once they are here, what would they be working on exactly? Perhaps if there was a specific issue or problem we needed them to work on then I might be behind the idea(think when Atlas did the code review). Anything else is equivalent to an endorsement deal and I believe there are better marketing strategies for the cost.
Plus once evolution is out I'm guessing we will see a plethora of developers.
However once they are here, what would they be working on exactly? Perhaps if there was a specific issue or problem we needed them to work on then I might be behind the idea(think when Atlas did the code review). Anything else is equivalent to an endorsement deal and I believe there are better marketing strategies for the cost.
Plus once evolution is out I'm guessing we will see a plethora of developers.
I admire your creativity and I like where you're coming from, but I disagree with this plan for one very, very big reason:
Evan, Udjin, Flare, and the other full-time core developers get paid an average of 100 DASH ($250) per month*, or 1200 DASH ($3000) per year. You want to bring in a third-party and pay them over $100k USD when Evan himself is only getting paid $3k USD per year????
Every developer we have would quit--and rightly so. You can't go pay an outsider 40x what you're paying your internal team and expect that to work out very well.
*https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=12910682
Evan, Udjin, Flare, and the other full-time core developers get paid an average of 100 DASH ($250) per month*, or 1200 DASH ($3000) per year. You want to bring in a third-party and pay them over $100k USD when Evan himself is only getting paid $3k USD per year????
Every developer we have would quit--and rightly so. You can't go pay an outsider 40x what you're paying your internal team and expect that to work out very well.
*https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=12910682
I suppose that Patellaport's proposal is very good for PR. Also, I have a doubts about a real contributions of BTC developers and about contribution/price rate. I seriously intend to support this proposal, but it's need to smooth some points, that described upper. I think that you should think about PR budget and about contacts whith a big count of newsmaker-sites to post this news (if this happens). And the next question is "How to motivate BTC developer to work for dash for a long time without a large constant outlay.
stan.distortion
Well-known member
People are motivated for all kinds of reasons, not all of them are profit related.
As other posters have said, its worth considering what this budget proposal actually aims to achieve. Is it aimed at bringing the benefits of a Bitcoin core devs experience to Dash or at bringing their endorsement of Dash? I'd support the latter if it had technical merit, a code review maybe, but not Gavin with a cheesy grin in an "I heart Dash" T-shirt and I doubt he'd be interested in anything remotely like that either, not for reward anyway.
Indeed. With Patellaport's proposal (even though it's a tempting proposal) we would be touching this very sensitive situation. I'm affraid we'd risk having bad consequences outweighing the good ones.
Naruto
Active member
So this is all about publicity? Or there is some actual function/objective that we cannot get without those people. ?