Announcing the Project Management and Delivery Excellence Initiative

kot said:
Any improvement idea will be taken into consideration.
coingun - feel free to share your additional suggestions (I have read your links carefully) in this topic or share them on Slack. We will be happy to work with you (and anyone else interested in making Dash professional IT project) on improvements and reasonable changes.
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Welcome aboard kot. I've got one for you:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/debian-packaging.4993/

You can prioritise it anywhere on the list you wish, but it should be on there somewhere.
 
yidakee said:
The problem with Slack is that it's a already a bit overcrowded. The free version is only 10k messages, and that is already show to be extremely low for dev work. ex; I was only invited about a month ago to assist with the animated video. It's quieter than in outer space over there, only active relevant group chats see any action, and they're hidden from general view, so there is only really the #general topic where everyone "meets" ... but, like I said, nothing really goes on in there.

Sure would be cool for one of the big whales to donate to the cause, say, by funding Slack to it's fullest for a while...
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https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-mission-and-vision-statement.4998/#post-54925

Ok but if nothing really goes on in there why do we say this..."However, in order to create Dash's initial mission and vision, the core team engaged several community members with deep expertise leveraging these tools. Several drafts have been debated internally by the core team with guidance and council from the experts. It was further debated in a public Slack channel for extended team members to provide input."

Cause to me that says we teh community actually had a say in the mission and vision that was released and more then a few members have already approached me asking for where/if I contributed at all the to mission and vision and I still can't even find where all this "internal discussion" happened.

We either need to use less strong verbiage to describe this stuff or perhaps something else...?
 
coingun said:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-mission-and-vision-statement.4998/#post-54925

Ok but if nothing really goes on in there why do we say this..."However, in order to create Dash's initial mission and vision, the core team engaged several community members with deep expertise leveraging these tools. Several drafts have been debated internally by the core team with guidance and council from the experts. It was further debated in a public Slack channel for extended team members to provide input."

Cause to me that says we teh community actually had a say in the mission and vision that was released and more then a few members have already approached me asking for where/if I contributed at all the to mission and vision and I still can't even find where all this "internal discussion" happened.

We either need to use less strong verbiage to describe this stuff or perhaps something else...?
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Hold on, I may have not expressed myself in the best way. I'm not at all saying you're not welcome! quite on the contrary, as is evident in this exact scenario, where your input speaks volumes.

All I'm saying is that Slack is not a private club for people to chill out. It is a tool to maximize real time co-op work. The said "public" channel is not the #general channel that everyone that's on Slack is part of, sort of like a project shoutbox. Whoever is thought relevant to participate in an initiative is sure to be invited to collaborate.

The only thing is, during this process, the limits of the free Slack service has become a kind of hinderance. I for example think much of Slack's use could be lightened with a private section here on the forums... So it's not that you are not welcome, it's just that invites to Slack have become extremely scarce. I had absolutely no say at all about this, just reporting what I know.

I am sure that whoever is part of that "public" channel will surely ask fernando/minotaur/evan to invite whoever they think should be. But it's not public at all, I don't see it anywhere.
 
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yidakee said:
Hold on, I may have not expressed myself in the best way. I'm not at all saying you're not welcome! quite on the contrary, as is evident in this exact scenario, where your input speaks volumes.

All I'm saying is that Slack is not a private club for people to chill out. It is a tool to maximize real time co-op work. The said "public" channel is not the #general channel that everyone that's on Slack is part of, sort of like a project shoutbox. Whoever is thought relevant to participate in an initiative is sure to be invited to collaborate.

The only thing is, during this process, the limits of the free Slack service has become a kind of hinderance. I for example think much of Slack's use could be lightened with a private section here on the forums... So it's not that you are not welcome, it's just that invites to Slack have become extremely scarce. I had absolutely no say at all about this, just reporting what I know.

I am sure that whoever is part of that "public" channel will surely ask fernando to invite whoever they think should be. But it's not public at all, I don't see it anywhere.
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LOL please I've been around long enough I don't get that butt hurt anymore about being excluded, it's almost expected now. It's just funny that again I'm the most vocal one regarding this issues and I'm still constantly being left out of "the conversation".

I've become frustrated enough on lack of inclusion that I've began working on my own solutions which I will bring forward sooner then later. I'm here to protect and speak on behalf of the community. They haven't asked me to do that but after seeing how poorly they have been treated during the development process it's important to still provide feedback from members perspective. If someone who has followed the software project daily and read almost every post on DCT I still find myself with holes and missing pieces so I could only imagine how they average user trying to keep up is taking this.

Edit: I should mention that Kot and Balu have tried to reach out via skype to me unsuccessfully but there was effort made. So I don't want to be all debbie downer. Also love what they are working on as well, just not sure what it is...lol
 
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coingun said:
LOL please I've been around long enough I don't get that butt hurt anymore about being excluded, it's almost expected now. It's just funny that again I'm the most vocal one regarding this issues and I'm still constantly being left out of "the conversation".

I've become frustrated enough on lack of inclusion that I've began working on my own solutions which I will bring forward sooner then later. I'm here to protect and speak on behalf of the community. They haven't asked me to do that but after seeing how poorly they have been treated during the development process it's important to still provide feedback from members perspective. If someone who has followed the software project daily and read almost every post on DCT I still find myself with holes and missing pieces so I could only imagine how they average user trying to keep up is taking this.

Edit: I should mention that Kot and Balu have tried to reach out via skype to me unsuccessfully but there was effort made. So I don't want to be all debbie downer. Also love what they are working on as well.
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I hear 'ya. Find peace thinking we're all essentially still a primordial soup of self-organizing chaotic organism of ideas. Sometimes freak mutations have to happen before natural selection takes place and "survival of the fittest" ends up making us stronger. See, who better that kot and balu trying to reach you as sign of interest?

The force is strong with this one.

.
 
yidakee said:
I hear 'ya. Find peace thinking we're all essentially still a primordial soup of self-organizing chaotic organism of ideas. Sometimes freak mutations have to happen before natural selection takes place and "survival of the fittest" ends up making us stronger. See, who better that kot and balu trying to reach you as sign of interest?

The force is strong with this one.

.
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Thanks for the comments. I must come across as such a dick to those pour suckers. Good thing they know that I'm only poking, prodding, and sticking my nose in places that will hopefully help the project!
 
kot and balu tried to skype coingun and not me???!!! Now I feel butt hurt!

Oh wait... I don't have Skype, have never had Skype... what am i talking about ! lol
How can you trust Skype while holding dash in your possession? :tongue:

Actually, on principle, how can anyone trust Skype at all?
 
Found this old post that is worth adding here for reference I believe it stemed from that one day back in the day where enforcement got stuck on after a spork and nobody could get a hold of evan to disable it and we didn't have a block accepted for like 5 hours or something...?

https://dashtalk.org/threads/todays-issues-and-future-handling-of-crises.893/#post-5472

I agree that we need better communication for the future.

I couldn't get a complete hold of what was happening yesterday because I was travelling when the price alarms started buzzing on my phone. I'm quite calmed and just waited to get some info, but for some people it must have been tough... You can't imagine how frustrating is being a train with a bad connection and 30 pages of bitcointalk to read :)

Some thoughts:

-I'm also ok with giving all my data to the group for this kind of days.

-A map of the team's time zones and languages would be nice to have.

-We need an internal channel. A dedicated IRC channel is ok, but I think I would prefer something with more prevalent notifications. There are many apps we can use that can be installed on phones without the need to disclose the number to the others if someone prefers to keep it private.

-We should distribute responsibilities over the different communication channels. It is impossible to be at the same time on bitcointalk, darkcointalk, twitter, irc... We need to think on some way to identify us as sources of reliable semiofficial information.

-A support ticker system would be nice, but we need to be sure that we can handle it. The workload can be quite high. Maybe in a first phase something only open to those running darkcoin services (Evan has a mailing list, we could get to them easily).

-For planned events like this hard fork we need to plan ahead and reach out proactively. We can make a list on Asana and coordinate there easily draging items from one group to another and assigning them to team members(I've made an example project there for this).
 
moli said:
kot and balu tried to skype coingun and not me???!!! Now I feel butt hurt!

Oh wait... I don't have Skype, have never had Skype... what am i talking about ! lol
How can you trust Skype while holding dash in your possession? :tongue:

Actually, on principle, how can anyone trust Skype at all?
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I litterally had to setup an account just for this. For people with only one computer that sucks for us super nerds we have computers for skype and computers for holding dash and computers for our computers. So that isn't much of an issue.
 
coingun said:
Found this old post that is worth adding here for reference I believe it stemed from that one day back in the day where enforcement got stuck on after a spork and nobody could get a hold of evan to disable it and we didn't have a block accepted for like 5 hours or something...?

https://dashtalk.org/threads/todays-issues-and-future-handling-of-crises.893/#post-5472

I agree that we need better communication for the future.

I couldn't get a complete hold of what was happening yesterday because I was travelling when the price alarms started buzzing on my phone. I'm quite calmed and just waited to get some info, but for some people it must have been tough... You can't imagine how frustrating is being a train with a bad connection and 30 pages of bitcointalk to read :)

Some thoughts:

-I'm also ok with giving all my data to the group for this kind of days.

-A map of the team's time zones and languages would be nice to have.

-We need an internal channel. A dedicated IRC channel is ok, but I think I would prefer something with more prevalent notifications. There are many apps we can use that can be installed on phones without the need to disclose the number to the others if someone prefers to keep it private.

-We should distribute responsibilities over the different communication channels. It is impossible to be at the same time on bitcointalk, darkcointalk, twitter, irc... We need to think on some way to identify us as sources of reliable semiofficial information.

-A support ticker system would be nice, but we need to be sure that we can handle it. The workload can be quite high. Maybe in a first phase something only open to those running darkcoin services (Evan has a mailing list, we could get to them easily).

-For planned events like this hard fork we need to plan ahead and reach out proactively. We can make a list on Asana and coordinate there easily draging items from one group to another and assigning them to team members(I've made an example project there for this).
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good point
totally forgot about that

i agree, we should have some kind of representative (who knows how to reach evan in case of emergency) in each time zone !

Edit:
Skype from phone
rest from computer
:wink:
 
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LOL... coingun I just showed you that link and before I could finish my next thought you already posted it here :p

Here are a few more links that showed some people did try to make things go better, and someone did say maybe there should be a way to get ahold of Evan in crises:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/rc3-communication-strategy-discussion.1243/
https://dashtalk.org/threads/planing-for-the-next-hard-fork.945/#post-5946

But almost a year later we had another crisis, no block was found for 6 hours because of the Foundation multisig address being used for donation. And again we still couldn't get ahold of Evan:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/11-2-dash-release.4515/page-16#post-49943

So, maybe these issues need to be addressed again:
1. Emergency plan - How to get in touch with Evan or someone who's in charge of emergencies.
2. A chain of command needs to be established to carry out the emergency plan to calm the public -ie. who's the next person to get the orders from Evan to disseminate the info to the next person and so on, so Evan can concentrate on his job.

Thoughts?
 
moli said:
LOL... coingun I just showed you that link and before I could finish my next thought you already posted it here :p

Here are a few more links that showed some people did try to make things go better, and someone did say maybe there should be a way to get ahold of Evan in crises:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/rc3-communication-strategy-discussion.1243/
https://dashtalk.org/threads/planing-for-the-next-hard-fork.945/#post-5946

But almost a year later we had another crisis, no block was found for 6 hours because of the Foundation multisig address being used for donation. And again we still couldn't get ahold of Evan:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/11-2-dash-release.4515/page-16#post-49943

So, maybe these issues need to be addressed again:
1. Emergency plan - How to get in touch with Evan or someone who's in charge of emergencies.
2. A chain of command needs to be established to carry out the emergency plan to calm the public -ie. who's the next person to get the orders from Evan to disseminate the info to the next person and so on, so Evan can concentrate on his job.

Thoughts?
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Moli all my thoughts and ideas are just stolen from you anyways so get used to it. I ABSOLUTELY love where your mind is going with this moli it's exactly what my concern is. Identifying and addressing with proper processes all the single points of failure that can bring this project to a halt. The "Evan gets hit by a bus scenario" I would like solved and addressed. What about the reference node getting stuck, needing a reboot, having the VPS be lost, etc,etc. Who can support pull requests to git. Who else has key's for accessing these "Asset's". This is where my asset list and responsibility of said assets would come into play.

I understand that in order to build the decentralized model's there is some need to have bits of centralization occur while we wait. The reference node is a great example of this. We didn't at the time have a solution to solve the issue and now a few months later we do. We can see how with our decentralized quorum's we can now extend this to the ability for the masternode quorum's to determine who to pay rather then the reference node. I personally don't mind some of these centralizations exist I just want to make sure their are documented and understood by teh community. The reason for that is this is half the battle in solving the problem simply addressing the need for a different solution. So if Evan is scared to tell people about the reference node then we will never find the right person to hear about it and propose the best solution.
 
coingun said:
Moli all my thoughts and ideas are just stolen from you anyways so get used to it. I ABSOLUTELY love where your mind is going with this moli it's exactly what my concern is. Identifying and addressing with proper processes all the single points of failure that can bring this project to a halt. The "Evan gets hit by a bus scenario" I would like solved and addressed. What about the reference node getting stuck, needing a reboot, having the VPS be lost, etc,etc. Who can support pull requests to git. Who else has key's for accessing these "Asset's". This is where my asset list and responsibility of said assets would come into play.

I understand that in order to build the decentralized model's there is some need to have bits of centralization occur while we wait. The reference node is a great example of this. We didn't at the time have a solution to solve the issue and now a few months later we do. We can see how with our decentralized quorum's we can now extend this to the ability for the masternode quorum's to determine who to pay rather then the reference node. I personally don't mind some of these centralizations exist I just want to make sure their are documented and understood by teh community. The reason for that is this is half the battle in solving the problem simply addressing the need for a different solution. So if Evan is scared to tell people about the reference node then we will never find the right person to hear about it and propose the best solution.
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LOL... I didn't say you stole my ideas... :tongue:
We're going to help kot and balu get this all worked out and this time next year we can look back and say "We did it!".
One thing though: You might have to give up some time on fishing and hunting to help the team. :grin:
 
Wow... a lot of new ideas - good.
Regarding Skype - please propose any different tool, if you don't like Skype. Just remember - it has to be easy to use for everyone.
 
coingun said:
To fix the executable's we are releasing being flagged on all operating systems as not valid we need to purchase and start using a Extended Validation (EV) Code Signing Certificate supported on all major platforms. Costs about $1000 for 3 years.

https://www.digicert.com/code-signing/ev-code-signing.htm

Just one example.
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A perfect example for what money should be raised for. And also a perfect example for a situation where money could be raised for a cause, while a free alternative exists.

I'm no tech guy, but the following seems to be ideal for us:
https://www.certum.eu/certum/cert,offer_en_open_source_cs.xml

(edit: obviously I meant no offense, and thanks for bringing the issue up)
 
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balu said:
A perfect example for what money should be raised for. And also a perfect example for a situation where money could be raised for a cause, while a free alternative exists.

I'm no tech guy, but the following seems to be ideal for us:
https://www.certum.eu/certum/cert,offer_en_open_source_cs.xml

(edit: obviously I meant no offense, and thanks for bringing the issue up)
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Yeah see you and I completely disagree on this one. I think this project has grown up well beyond the scope of using free services. So far this week I've heard that slack doesn't work well cause we are on the "free" account. Now I'm hearing that we can't afford to properly sign our software because it costs money. It what world do we exists as a potential business where we don't have access to a few thousand dollars in resources to make ourselves look professional. No offense but going and getting the cheapest, easiest solution to a problem is a very similar path that has lead us to being where we are.

Software projects with a 23 million dollar market cap shouldn't be squirming over a very basic set of functionality. Heck we haven't even gotten into buying and flying proper ssl certificates across all our products. Setting these things up with "free services" and without proper network budgets to me is a MASSIVE I said again MASSIVE swing and a miss. We are sitting here blowing our horns over decentralized governance and wanting to higher blockchain contractors yet at the current time we don't even have funds to finish a proper re-branding rollout. Foundation all still fly old domains, offical block explorer's old domains, dnseed infrastructure old domain's. Shouldn't the block chain be more worried about fixing and finishing off the things it requires to be fully healthy.

I really see this no different then vetting the financials of any project. Before we go spending any more moving forward shouldn't we first be taking the time to do a full audit and align the audit with a new vision and mission statement. It seems like now that we have those statements the direction going forward is quite clear. We now have two proof of concept services for our second tier network building any more services is probably a project for next year while we spend the current year finalizing the migration of all of our assets and getting some stability behind our servers and infrastructure.

The amount that this project rely's on the community at this point is amazing. You go to the dashpay site and it's never more prominent. I'd say almost 50% of the links on our core site are simply redirects to other sites offering services for us. We don't have enough resources to fly our own full set of infrastructure. Does it seem weird to anyone else that 60-70% of all the tools we have for looking into the block chain and monitoring votes have been built by someone completely removed from the dev team? We have no way of keeping those assets online if said current curator disappears. Those are scary things for investor's to know and realize. Suddenly are very shiny armor starts looking tarnished as people look around. Even teh fact that I'm able to have this discussion on this forum. To my knowledge all those fees are being covered again by an individual community member. Ironically enough it's a lot of these community members that host and supply systems for DASH but are then left out of the discussions. See how it all circles around.

Mmmmm need more 0xc0ff33
 
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