Checkerama
Active member
I rather not have her buy me a masternode. You're forgiven for the mental gymnastics.
An Open Letter From Evan and Ryan Regarding Dash Marketing
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I rather not have her buy me a masternode. You're forgiven for the mental gymnastics.
Dandy
Active member
I'm really not sure at this point if you are just trolling or you just don't understand math at all.
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Checkerama
Active member
Then break down the math so you can prove my point.
This is how you calculate ROI:
"Everyone else" holding DASH for a year: 9500% return (supposedly)
But what you're forgetting is that these are holders and are getting no increased value of DASH for their current holdings, so your 10300% valuation of your own profits is only accurate if you had actually paid for the DASH you're proposing to add into your initial 1000 DASH (but you don't - you have it mined and distributed to you)
MNO's: Dollars spent on maintaining the server (at most, $100 a month)
Monthly income: 6.9 DASH/month or 7.5k/month (currently)
ROI = money profited/money SPENT = (90636-1200)/1200 = 74,530% ROI
That's your actual ROI on your investment, people. Holding is not an investment.
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TroyDASH
Well-known member
The 8% is the difference *between* 9500% and 10500%. Masternodes do *not* make twice as much as non-masternode holders. I don't know how else to explain this. Suppose the price of dash went from $10 to $1000. If you bought a masternode, the value of your holdings started at $10,000 and ended at $1,080,000 (1000 dash + 80 dash from the payments). If you bought 1000 dash but did not set up a masternode, then the value of your holdings started at $10,000 and ended at $1,000,000. How is $1,080,000 twice as much as $1,000,000?
Checkerama
Active member
You're explaining it too complex - simply put, when you did your calculations, all you did was add the 8% DASH you got into your total 1M so you could dilute the profits youre gaining as a MN, but that is NOT the case at all.
Lets say if someone wanted to buy DASH at its current price of $1000. At $1000, off of my rudimentary estimates for your server upkeep, you could pay maintenance for 10 months. A buyer would earn 1 DASH, and you would earn how many in 10 months? 69?
ROI is not based off of any value gained specifically on the currency, it is based on how much money you input to how much you have returned, and right now, the proportions are ridiculous. For a mere $100 a month and for simply entering when DASH was cheap (except for Dandy who for some reason mortgaged his house for the MN), you now gain ridiculous ROI in perspective of your actual expenditures. No one is gaining almost 7 DASH for a $100 contribution, no matter how you splice it. To add insult to injury, you're also sitting on 1000 DASH that is ALSO gaining the 9500% valuation that you had set for everyone else - so not only are you gaining a ridiculous amount of DASH for a dirt cheap maintenance upkeep, your initial lock is also gaining along with all the holders.
That's how you calculate ROI.
TroyDASH
Well-known member
You can't have it both ways, if you don't count the currency appreciation as ROI for non-masternode operators, then it shouldn't count for masternodes either. And if you do count it for Masternodes, then you need to include it for non-MNs. The fact is, for the *same* initial investment, after a year of holding, regardless of whether you denominate it in dash or in Fiat, the value of a masternode's holdings will be 8% higher than a non-masternode.
Checkerama
Active member
That would only hold true if MNs had bought the accrued 8% additional DASH by buying them at market value, but you didn't - again, you had it distributed to you at dirt cheap prices just for being a 1000 DASH holder. If I hold 500 DASH, I don't get the additional ROI that you do UNLESS i buy more DASH at its current price. MNs don't have to do that. Does no one seriously see a problem here yet? Lol, trickle down economics on steroids.
TroyDASH
Well-known member
No, but a lot of non-masternodes made $10,000 on each of their $100 contributions, and the ones who bought Masternodes made $10,800 on each of their $100 contributions.
Checkerama
Active member
No, the proper math is you ALSO gained $10,000 on each your own $100 contribution just like every non-MNO, PLUS an additional $7,500 (currently) for every $100 you spent (on server maintenance, lemme know if I can make this number more accurate) thereafter on a monthly basis (with no regard to current DASH prices at any point throughout the year)
Dandy
Active member
You cannot assume that all MNOs bought Dash when it was cheap. But even if that were the case, that just mean they were smart and recognized the value of Dash early on and now they are making a profit from their forward thinking. I don't see anything wrong with that
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Checkerama
Active member
True, but now we have to apply it in terms of many problems others are seeing with the currency today - specifically, the lack of liquidity and the race for hoarding as much of it as you can. In its current form, DASH reflects a mechanism for hyperdeflationary economics, where even the slightest uptick in purchases creates artificial pumps that do not reflect its true value, and as previous commentators have already pointed out, isnt DASH supposed to be digital cash?
It also helps that the people who are benefiting the most off of the system are the ones in control of their own salaries. There are no checks for MNOs at all.
Also, I can assume (and prove) that more than half of all MNOs bought DASH cheap. I have the data points to prove that, but I think you've already seen it.
demo
Well-known member
@Checkerama leave the born to be slaves alone!
They cannot change their mind, due to their genes...
Will you join a hard fork?
They cannot change their mind, due to their genes...
Will you join a hard fork?
@Checkerama I don't understand your disdain for profits, good fortune, risk taking, or whatever it is you find so repulsive.
Dash, like 1100+ other cryptos, is an economic policy enforced in code. You don't like dash's structure, you are totally free to go search for a crypto that you can call home. Some masternode systems give less, others give more. Most of them are cheaper than dash with plenty of potential for growth. Is that not good enough for you?
Dash, like 1100+ other cryptos, is an economic policy enforced in code. You don't like dash's structure, you are totally free to go search for a crypto that you can call home. Some masternode systems give less, others give more. Most of them are cheaper than dash with plenty of potential for growth. Is that not good enough for you?
Dandy
Active member
MNOs are also the biggest investers (MNO today has to invest more than one million dollars), so it's similar to the functioning of a company and masternodes as it's shareholders.
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demo
Well-known member
Checkerama
Active member
Then DASH is not digital cash, it's a corporation for profit now, profiting off of the later contributors to your system where the only winners are the ones that come in early enough, which brings me back to what I was saying on earlier threads that that vision is now dead, and we are only left with a greater fool's theory currency.
This could be said, of course, for any cryptocurrency, but DASH has yet to achieve anything to substantiate its price increase, so if Bitcoin is a bubble, then DASH is the mother of all bubbles.
Dandy
Active member
Well, if that is true, then MNOs will be the biggest losers when the bubble pops, so it should make you happy
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Checkerama
Active member
Of course you don't understand, youre an MNO.
My main premise is that masternode governance was a good idea, but its profit system for doing absolutely nothing (also of which it does not adhere to a sliding difficulty rule such as miners have) has turned it into a bunker for hedgers and kept afloat by unknowing stragglers buying small amounts for the ridiculous price points. My proposal seeks to end the masternode bunkers that keep this system in place and allow for anyone who joins to stand to profit from being a part of that project. What has DASH accomplished for someone to have to invest $1M into it to earn a masternode? Nothing.
Checkerama
Active member
Fair enough, but what I'm suggesting would prevent it from being a hurl from a high place. I won't save any of you, since you all came in early enough, but for future investors and DASH holders (who would definitely stand to lose more than you percentage wise).
None of what I'm writing is to convince any of you - I think its pretty obvious you will all turn a blind eye as long as your short term profits stay intact... this is for anyone reading this and trying to determine whether to make the investment.
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