Additional Network Layers and Governance v3

jeffh

jeffh

Active member
I think it's time to start thinking about the governance layer and the budget system as first class citizens on the Dash network.

Here's a quick little paper I wrote a couple of weeks ago with some of my ideas.

The diagram isn't all that great so feel free to ask questions and I can share more of the vision.

I'm looking for some feedback from the community and I think that it's worth having a discussion about this and beginning the conversation around what v3 of Dash Governance could look like.
 

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Love it.
Also, I clicked on the link and didn't die.
I would like to see this on DashDrive.
I don't think it would take up many resources and integrating it with DAPI would be a perfect solution.
Perhaps @Obusco could help.
 
I hope you don't mind, I linked them as a non-download JPG.

I would also like to add, a DDOS attack longer than 15 minutes is unlikely.
 
jeffh said:
I think it's time to start thinking about the governance layer and the budget system as first class citizens on the Dash network.
Click to expand...
it's been a first class, decentralized citizen from it's inception. you confuse dashcentral with the dash governance system.
jeffh said:
One of the problems being faced by the Dash Governance system is that of centralization. The basic component of the governance system relies on the work of one community individual, rango.
Click to expand...
not true, nothing is centralized. dashcentral is not a component of the governance system. using dashcentral is completely optional. i've never used it. voting is easy with dashninja & dash-cli, even better with dmt. pre- and proposal discussions are done on the dash forum. i really dislike the whole idea of third parties for these essential functions.

from what i understand about this proposal it essentially the same as dashcentral but utilizing distributed tech. i don't see any advantages here.
 
Dashcentral is third party site, it is NOT official system.
DAO and voting works fine without any third party site.
But it is eye candy and easy to use i agree.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I know it’s Dashcentral technically isn’t a component of the governance system but if you don’t use it, then you’re just voting based off either their pre-proposal or off the ID.

I think it’s pretty safe to say the majority of us follow the link to see what additional information proposal owners have posted to justify the cost of their proposal.

I think that if Evolution allowed for voting through the DAPI instead of requiring DMT or the core wallet, and gave folks a good interface - then we might see voter participation rise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Vedran Yoweri said:
it's been a first class, decentralized citizen from it's inception. you confuse dashcentral with the dash governance system.

not true, nothing is centralized. dashcentral is not a component of the governance system. using dashcentral is completely optional. i've never used it. voting is easy with dashninja & dash-cli, even better with dmt. pre- and proposal discussions are done on the dash forum. i really dislike the whole idea of third parties for these essential functions.

from what i understand about this proposal it essentially the same as dashcentral but utilizing distributed tech. i don't see any advantages here.
Click to expand...

Dashcentral is not the governance system, but when the actual proposal submitted to the network only contains a URL pointing to where you are supposed to find the proposal details, and that URL points to dashcentral (or wherever), then obviously if there is a problem with Dashcentral (or wherever the URL points to), then it interferes with things. When someone submits a proposal in Dash and the proposal can only contain a URL, there is no guarantee that (1) the URL will necessarily always resolve to the same website, (2) the content of the website will remain unchanged either by the proposal owner or by a third party, and (3) the website will remain online and the data is able to be retrieved. Using a distributed solution mitigates all of these issues, how is that not an advantage?
 
jeffh said:
I think it's time to start thinking about the governance layer and the budget system as first class citizens on the Dash network.

Here's a quick little paper I wrote a couple of weeks ago with some of my ideas.

The diagram isn't all that great so feel free to ask questions and I can share more of the vision.

I'm looking for some feedback from the community and I think that it's worth having a discussion about this and beginning the conversation around what v3 of Dash Governance could look like.
Click to expand...

thanks - like some comments above, DashCentral is an app that reads governance data from fullnodes and provides UIs for writing governance data via fullnodes, i.e. it's not part of the Dash protocol. Likewise your proposed implementation isn't within the Dash protocol but a layer to make it easier to do same (in a more redundant / decentralised way).

We are actually already working on the governance system V2. It's part of Evolution, which is a 2 layer system - we remove governance objects from layer one onto layer 2, with data stored in DashDrive, and use Quorums to mediate the governance results back to layer 1. So actually this kind of implementation wouldn't be needed, although it could still be built on top.
 
Vedran Yoweri said:
third-party.
url should be forum/proposal discussion. both interactions (blockchain / forum) under dash control.
Click to expand...

I get where you’re coming from here but as the budget continues to scale, I don’t think managing $100M through a forum is the best approach.

You’re never going to get buy-in from larger businesses to become contributors if they have to use the current system, it’s an accessibility problem.

Let’s make sure we build not just for today, but for the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jeffh said:
I get where you’re coming from here but as the budget continues to scale, I don’t think managing $100M through a forum is the best approach.

You’re never going to get buy-in from larger businesses to become contributors if they have to use the current system, it’s an accessibility problem.

Let’s make sure we build not just for today, but for the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yep remember though that DashCentral is just a frontend to the governance system which is p2p itself. I guess there's not many alternative frontends because a) the gov system internals are pretty esoteric and b) DashCentral is a really good / usable site so high bar / lot of work to compete with.

I think we are on the same page, Evo design is solving the same problems your aiming to. The solution is DAPI based, i.e. raising proposals and voting via DAPI instead of DashCore. The Evo v2 gov solution is also highly flexible because you can assign lots of types of data to be fundable and anyone (with the required collateral) can vote on that.

PM me if you'd be interested in getting involved with the alpha when it's ready to develop applications around this.
 
AndyDark said:
Yep remember though that DashCentral is just a frontend to the governance system which is p2p itself. I guess there's not many alternative frontends because a) the gov system internals are pretty esoteric and b) DashCentral is a really good / usable site so high bar / lot of work to compete with.

I think we are on the same page, Evo design is solving the same problems your aiming to. The solution is DAPI based, i.e. raising proposals and voting via DAPI instead of DashCore. The Evo v2 gov solution is also highly flexible because you can assign lots of types of data to be fundable and anyone (with the required collateral) can vote on that.

PM me if you'd be interested in getting involved with the alpha when it's ready to develop applications around this.
Click to expand...

Definitely on the same page, that last reply was meant more for the person above you than for you.

I’ll be in touch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Vedran Yoweri said:
third-party.
url should be forum/proposal discussion. both interactions (blockchain / forum) under dash control.
Click to expand...

I would rather it point to a distributed system that does not require trust, than one that is controlled by the dash team and is also a single point of failure. But since there may be something being developed as @AndyDark mentioned, we might end up with something that is both distributed and controlled by dash, which would be even better.
 
AndyDark said:
PM me if you'd be interested in getting involved with the alpha when it's ready to develop applications around this.
Click to expand...
Why you hide your code?
As long as you insist of following a closed source model, you will never become competitive.
You need as many eyes as possible to watch your alpha.
How is it possible for you to write valuable closed source code, when all programs you run are already based on millions of lines of open source code? Closed source model is a dead model, and you will fail if you follow it.
 
AndyDark said:
The Evo v2 gov solution is also highly flexible because you can assign lots of types of data to be fundable and anyone (with the required collateral) can vote on that.
Click to expand...
sounds great. please consider adding rfp proces so dash can ask the market what it wants proposed. could be used as beta to mature the tech.
 
demo said:
Why you hide your code?
As long as you insist of following a closed source model, you will never become competitive.
You need as many eyes as possible to watch your alpha.
How is it possible for you to write valuable closed source code, when all programs you run are already based on millions of lines of open source code? Closed source model is a dead model, and you will fail if you follow it.
Click to expand...

Now is not the time to worry about such things. Once the DAPI is live, I am very much hoping we can get a Core2 team going.
 
What I'd like to see for more advanced proposals. Larger and more complicated projects can involve sensitive information. A public forum is not always in the best interest of the Dash community. It allows competitors to steal ideas, sabotage projects and lets people who have no knowledge publically comment.

I'd like to see a secure means of communication between business and the Masternodes. With NDA function to protect proprietary information. A business may go another direction and seek traditional funding if they are forced to lay out their business plan to the public.
 
demo said:
Why you hide your code?
As long as you insist of following a closed source model, you will never become competitive.
You need as many eyes as possible to watch your alpha.
How is it possible for you to write valuable closed source code, when all programs you run are already based on millions of lines of open source code? Closed source model is a dead model, and you will fail if you follow it.
Click to expand...

Dash is not publishing their updates as open source until it is ready for release, there's too much competition and too many people who would undermine them. Protecting information is important now that Dash is a major player.
 
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