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The costs to use Dash

ec1warc1

ec1warc1

Active member
I came to the realization today that an instant send costs USD $0.40, which seems rather high if we want to attract users. A basic transaction from the core wallet using the "recommended" setting now costs USD $0.08. Furthermore, the cost to submit a proposal is now $500. Is that right? The price of Dash has gone up, but the simple services for end users need not be so expensive. I don't want to see Dash be a victim of its own success.

So, how can we go about making changes that prevent these costs from destroying the user experience and review them on a weekly or monthly, basis? How are such fees determined and how can they be changed? Must there be a vote? Can these fees be set in Dollars?
Thanks,
Ec1warc1
 
I totally agree. I think there is some urgency for Core to issue a proposal to reduce end-user costs, much like they did with the blocksize thing. And that would also make good PR (re: prices voted on). Ideally though, I would like to see all transactions to be automatically instant and very cheap. The only problem is, it's now $500 to make a policy proposal, and personally I think all policy proposals should be a nominal fee of, say, $1. It would be trivial to restrict policy proposals to MNs only.
 
Why are there not responses here from our core members? @tungfa @Minotaur And, how did you guys get the Masternode Owner label? I want one! (I am also a masternode owner! LOL!) Thanks!
 
Instant tx will eventually be changed, but bear in mind that Dash price moves very fast and software should be stable, so it will never be perfect. Standard tx will get into a block even without a fee. I recommend including one to make sure you get into next block, but truth is I don't know of any miner that doesn't include all txs. Our blocks are not that full... yet :)

The proposal price is a different thing, as being discussed in that other thread.

ec1warc1 said:
And, how did you guys get the Masternode Owner label? I want one! (I am also a masternode owner! LOL!) Thanks!
Click to expand...
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/new-forum-feature-masternode-owner-badges.13819/
 
I agree with op.

A question to the wizards that run this show. Is the fee fixed? I think it is. So, could it be coded to dynamical change with number of transactions taking place?

To clarify, only a certain amount in fees is required to pay miners/masternodes/treasury. If more transactions take place, shouldn't each TX fee be cheaper?
 
ec1warc1 said:
Why are there not responses here from our core members? @tungfa @Minotaur And, how did you guys get the Masternode Owner label? I want one! (I am also a masternode owner! LOL!) Thanks!
Click to expand...

not sure what u mean ?
did u tag me in your initial post ?
am in asia - totally different timezone than most and tbh have so much on my plate that i engage less and less in the forum as out of time :rolleyes:
 
I have already told them one year before. They dont listen.
demo said:
Nobody was asked about the protocol, the core team decided about it. And all of us had just one choice, either accept it and become members of dash, or reject it and leave dash. This is not correct.
Protocols should not give only the accept and the reject choice.
At the begining the core team should put into a vote all initial values of their protocol. And in a second version, all inital decisions of the protocol should also become a subject to vote.
Click to expand...

The instant send cost is yet another initial value, decided by the core team in a hardcoded way.

This case is yet another case where you desperately need to vote the numbers.

demo said:
Because something is generated by a protocol, this does not mean that it is not a tax. It is a protocol generated tax.

What I mainly argue is that 10% is a hardcoded number, thus a wrong number. This is not correct, it should be a number that fits to the will of the active members of the community. If you have a theory explaining why 10% is the correct number for the community of today, then it is ok. But you have not. So in the case a number has no theory, then this number should vary in order to fit best into the community's current needs (and vary again in order to fit to the future needs of course).

And who is about to decide the change of that number? It is either Evan, or the core team, or the MN owners, or the miners, or the wallet owners. I am in favor of the third or fourth option. I dont think the fifth option (wallet owners) is appropriate, because wallet owners get benefits from the budget (for example they hope the basic income to be written in the budget).

So lets inspect the decision tree to be voted, and how polls are dependant eachother. More dependent polls could occur of course, this is just the simpliest decision tree example about this subject.

Poll:Should 10% budget be a constant number for the present and the future?(yes/no/other)
---Voted yes/other---> end
---Voted no-------------> Poll:Should Evan decide the change of this number? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should core team decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should MN owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
------ Voted no/other--->end
-------Voted yes -----------> Poll: Should MN owners decide that change by voting with numbers? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should miners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should wallet owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
​
And who is allowed to vote into this decision tree? Evan and the core team currently.

But I claim that at least MN owners should also be allowed to vote on it. Not by voting a simple yes or no for a proposed budget percentage, but by voting with a number, a number between 0% and 100%. And then the poll result should be the average of all the number votes.
Click to expand...

But wait, everybody hates to vote the numbers, dont they?
 
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jimbursch said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can manually set your transaction fee to zero if you like.
Click to expand...


Yes you can pay little for transactions but DASH is ment for instant payment which should also be very cheap to use. We want to replace VISA and MasterCard payments would mean cheaper than the cost to do a transaction on DASH network

From visa
Each time you process a credit or debit card transaction through your merchant account, you are charged an inquiry fee and a percentage of the total transaction. The inquiry fee is a flat amount, typically between 20 cents and 35 cents
 
What's bothering me is the lack of engagement from core. I feel like one day someone in core is going to say, "by the way guys, we've made a policy change, we're changing these fees and doing it this way... and btw, we didn't ask your opinion or let you vote on it"
 
freshdopamine said:
Yes you can pay little for transactions but DASH is ment for instant payment which should also be very cheap to use. We want to replace VISA and MasterCard payments would mean cheaper than the cost to do a transaction on DASH network

From visa
Each time you process a credit or debit card transaction through your merchant account, you are charged an inquiry fee and a percentage of the total transaction. The inquiry fee is a flat amount, typically between 20 cents and 35 cents
Click to expand...
It's hard to compare visa. Also visa charges the merchant anywhere from 1.x-5 percent depending on the card type and how stupid the business with the merchant account is. And up to 10% for risky business models. The end user does not see this. If dash wanted to be like visa the receiver would pay the transaction fee.

This entire thread is a reaction due to a price run-up. And will repeat every time the price changes a lot. I'm hoping someone has a good proposal. Fixing it to a magical USD value doesn't work well if USD becomes unstable.
 
I am manually setting my transactions now. I am paying 0.0002 per kilobyte. I have noticed that the "RECOMMENDED" has dropped to about that amount from a week ago when it was over double that amount.

Instant-send is still 400000 duffs or about $0.35USD. A very high fee. Which goes all the way back to my first question, how does this fee and other fees get set? Who sets them? (read the very beginning). Thanks! Where are the CORE guys on this issue?
 
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