Qt-Wallet and a Bootstrap

[MangledBlue]

Maybe this has been talked about - maybe not

BUT....

Why is it that - when anybody downloads the DASH Wallet......


....... why can't the current BlockChain be a-part of the installation?


I mean - we are downloading the MOST recent version from DASH.org/downloads anyway....

WHY NOT have the BlockChain included?

Why wait hours to install initially?

Say - Once a month, update the current release with the BlockChain available to-date

Yes, it will increase the total download size, time and bandwidth of the service provider and the user
BUT -
It will decrease the Total Time it takes to get the New User up and running

If we are looking to increase New Customer Satisfaction
Should we not also look at decreasing New Customer frustrations
- especially with the RIGHT NOW world we live in?

1st impressions mean everything
And - in my opinion - the DASH installation is not currently worthy of the DASH name.....
I mean come on - think about it...

Will you, the reader, SUPPORT a downloadable version of DASH that includes the most recent BlockChain?


Example:

CLICK TO DOWNLOAD

[instert OS here]
Dash V.12.1 32 bit
Dash V.12.1 64 bit
Dash V.12.1 32 bit with BootStrap
Dash V.12.1 64 bit with BootStrap

 

[MangledBlue]

The above LINKs were made to 'error out' and
404 Not Found
as they were only meant to be examples

 

[flare]

The blockchain bootstrap is 1.2G in size at the moment, so i refuse to bundle them with the binaries.

We can set a link to https://github.com/UdjinM6/dash-bootstrap though, i think that should be sufficient.

 

[MangledBlue]

What about an option - within DASH - that could be linked to grab the current bootstrap and apply it to the DASH installation
- post installation?

For example........

DASH Installation Completes...

At 1st run....
Prompt for BootStrap BlockChain or Natural BlockChain
Also - Make it an option, within DASH 'Repair' commands

Of course, the BlockChain 'optional download' would need the be maintained on say - the current Github location, as you indicated - -
- - BUT
Just include/code the Github within the DASH Core code to access the BootStrap and apply it post installation

DASH core would grab the BootStrap and there would be no reason to include it, physically, within the actual installation


Problem solved? no?

 

[MangledBlue]

@flare
I think I said what you said but WAY more detailed?
LOL

 

[c44c]

I think the option to have both is great, I'd personally take advantage of having a bootstrapped client when downloading to a friend or on my computers. It would make the time to get started that much faster.

 

[flare]

@flare
I think I said what you said but WAY more detailed?
LOL

No, your vote is on

include the BlockChain within the Installation files

while i am proposing to simply set a link to https://github.com/UdjinM6/dash-bootstrap - which is different.

 

[Balych]

Just for info, Verium client have in-wallet possibility of bootstrap download:

 

[camosoul]

I'd say the notion is good, but the suggested implementation is bad...

1) Could just add a link to latest booststrap below the client downloads, with instructions on what to do with it.
2) We don't want total noobs doing this anyway because security. What if they got MIMed with a fake blockchain?
3) MNs make DLing the blockchain almost as fast as bootstrapping. I did both multiple times just to check and see, difference was only a few minutes. Let the shitcoins have their band-aids, DASH doesn't need them.
4) electrum-dash
5) DAPI will make DLing the BC obsolete, unless you feel like DLing it.
5a) Could be using a limited version of DAPI right now to demonstrate this... All MNs have to have a BC. It would almost nothing to the current system. Could be querying DAPI Quorum, and have that mechanism replace the server implementation on electrum-dash right-now-today.

It's a neat idea, but I find it in the same realm as ATMs... We're supposed to be making this sort of thing obsolete, not adding fluff just to add fluff.

I agree with @flare but with a list of reasons that demonstrate why, even if the BC weren't 1.2G.

 

[TanteStefana]

No, your vote is on



while i am proposing to simply set a link to https://github.com/UdjinM6/dash-bootstrap - which is different.

I think what mangled is getting at is to have an option where the bootstrap downloads with the wallet installation files, and is installed without any more complicated user input. Finding the /user/appdata/roaming/dashcore folder, unzipping the bootstrap, etc... it's just all freaking scary and too complex for a normal person. A normal person would never do that, unless they're super motivated to learn.

although this will be solved with evolution (to be safe with your lite wallet, tapping trustlessly into the blockchain) you could still use electrum with a little trust or a lite wallet available today. Though Electrum is kinda ugly

It would be nice if this wasn't too hard to do. But the core team needs to evaluate how much time is spent on something like this vs getting Evolution out the door.???

 

[camosoul]

Finding the /user/appdata/roaming/dashcore folder, unzipping the bootstrap, etc... it's just all freaking scary and too complex for a normal person.

If by "normal person" you mean "extra special stupid person" then you're right.

There needs to be at least some small level of learning what the hell they're doing. If you're going to put your money in the computer, you need to learn how to do so responsibly and safely. If a person is unwilling to do that, let them reap the consequences of that laziness and irresponsibility until they do. It's just copying a file for fuck's sake. If you can't be asked to do something as simple as that, you're a douche bag. DASH has already made downloading the BC so fast that you don't have to bootstrap... That's not what the bootstrap is for in the first place. It's proof that idiot-proofing only breeds bigger idiots. To a point that it results in idiots that actually assert being entitled to idiocy and proud of it...

If you own a car, maybe you don't choose to become a mechanic, but you should at the very least be able to change a flat tire. If you're so lazy and dumb that you can't be asked to do something so basic and simple; pay AAA. I'm not helping.

This is just another symptom of the Overpolished Turd mentality of Crypto at large. Every coin has it in their heads that they need to attract more users with yet more useless fluff features. No. You need to focus on having a place where users can actually use!

If you could actually use even an unpolsihed shitcoin at Wal Mart or the Gas Station, that coin would wipe out BTC in a month. This is not a hard puzzle to solve. It's just that people who understand the real world are not involved in Crypto, not even in DASH. It's a bunch of self-absorbed snowflakes who are completely oblivious to anything but their own base instincts. The problem is painfully obvious, but they're little more than animals and can't grasp it. It's like trying to teach a cat to do math. It's never going to happen. They just don't get it, and think another ball-on-a-rubber-band cat toy is going to bring the mob to them... And within the cryptosphere, it's true. They think it's working because the cat mob runs to the new toy. But its still nothing but the same cat mob running from one toy to the other, as the real world looks on cringing harder every time...

This is yet another attempt to create a useless fluff cat toy that doesn't reach out to the real world in any way. It's the false-positive conditioning of drawing the cats away from one crypto project to another with a feature set that nobody in the real world gives a shit about. Even cats get bored with the same old games. A kitten might play with a string dangled on it's ears.. But try that with a 10 year old cat... this is why only mentally and emotionally underdeveloped people, and those who know how to use them as useful idiots, bother with Crypto.

DASH has the potential to breach that and be Crypto that grown-ups can take seriously, yet has not merely failed to do so, but refused to do so.

So VRM has a useless fluff cat toy. And? Your point? How does this make VRM into a thing I can use in my everyday purchases?

This poll is just another symptom of the root problem; continuing to do fluff while failing to do the obvious thing.

You writ me off as a troll because nearly everything I say comes back to that point. Think, dumbasses. The reason it keeps coming back to that point, is because you're showing symptoms of this same root problem EVERYWHERE in this project. You've run out of fluff and busywork to do, so you're dreaming up new useless shit to do. Even to the point of putting good features on the chopping block to make room for another stupid cat toy. The problem has reached the point of self-sabotage, and you still don't notice?

 

[TanteStefana]

Camo, by "normal person" I mean non-technical people who just want to try out Dash, but would walk away from the complications. Remember, we want adoption, no? And if there is no easy safety, Dash will not become a mainstream payment service. Even my sister, a programmer analyst, just wants "credit card protection" out of the box. How do I convince her it's better to be in control of her own money and personal information? I know you say these people are stupid and don't deserve crypto currency, but I want to see the world change - and that means converting people like my sister.

And I hope you're not saying that I write you off as a troll. You should know better! In fact, I'm mulling over your comment on the sentinel thread. You're right, and I need to understand how attack vectors are thwarted if at all in sentinel. There are so many issues here, it's hard to keep track of them! And yah, I do have limited brain capacity - and unlike most women, I can't multi-task well. When worried about my kids, my hubby, my mom, etc..., I can't do other things well and fall behind.

If you could actually use even an unpolsihed shitcoin at Wal Mart or the Gas Station, that coin would wipe out BTC in a month.

I agree. But even if you got Walmart and Exxon to accept your shitcoin, you also need users to use it, and they won't if it's scary complex. Dash is a service. We want it to be usable the way Visa is usable, and even better; a combo of Visa, Paypal, and now there is that new one, whatever it's called??? LOL BUT, like you say, each ease-of-use feature will come at the cost of ultimate safety. But there is no ultimate safety, and just like freedom/safety in public policy, you get ease of use/safety and people will strike a balance in accordance to their needs/wants. Me? I'd keep my funds as safe as possible, but will use the Evolution wallet with only what I need in it short term. That will probably be best practice in the end. As long as basic wallets, paper, trezor, cold, but not connected to a user name/password Evolution are available, I don't have a problem with Evolution.

I do have fun with calling toknormal my Master, and I am the insubordinate student, but I do mean it, he is my teacher!
I do say I adore you, Camo, and think you're funny with your rants, but don't think I just dismiss them. Sometimes they're rants where you know your concerns are being addressed. Other times, they're more real and immediate observations . So I very much appreciate your input. You constantly challenge. And it doesn't matter if the core team feels they've got it covered. It needs to constantly be challenged, squeezed, and maybe, if possible popped (Ewwww, where is this coming from?!) If it pops, it wasn't good enough, and needs to be improved! People like you push the limits, poke others into thinking, and that is extremely healthy for Dash. You are our devil's advocate, and we need you. Damn angels get so much light in their eyes, they can't see anymore and even God gets pissed at their incessant bowing and shoe licking. Nothing is worse than a bunch of YES men. Even if I'm guilty of being one of 'em.

So no, I'll never think of you as a troll. Sometimes I think of you as angry, which you sometimes are, but most of the time, you're making a point in a hilariously crude way. Keep it up, please!

And, being old, sometimes I worry you're getting too hot, and may sound like I'm trying to pat you on the hand, saying don't worry dear, etc... Don't think I'm belittling you. I'm just a mommy like that. Punch me in the face if you need to, but know I'm not trying to belittle your concerns.

 

[TanteStefana]

Just for info, Verium client have in-wallet possibility of bootstrap download:

The only problem with something THAT easy, is security. It's better to verify you're on the right website and check the PGP signature. But lets face it, they took that away on the website. I'm disappointed in that. With the way it was set up, you even had a link to where to check the signatures and how to check them. A long time ago, we discussed having updates and such delivered in the wallet the way other software does it, and decided it created too much of a risk. Perhaps with sentinel (barring any weakness like Camo describes) could allow for such things to be done securely??

 

[camosoul]

Camo, by "normal person" I mean non-technical people who just want to try out Dash, but would walk away from the complications.

This right here.

There's nothing complicated about installing the client as-is. Leave it at at that. The speed at shich MNs spew chain at clients leaves no need to bootstrap. It's only useful for people who need to save bandwidth for one reason or another, and if they can say "bandwidth" and know what it means, they already know how to copy a damn file...

There's also nothing complicated about copying a file from A to B. Anyone over the age of 8 should be able to do that. Those who can't are failed people who will never be able to use or understand DASH anyway. If a person walks away from DASH over a useless feature that's "too complicated" and serves no purpose anyway:

1) That person was never going to use DASH anyway.
2) I'm pretty sure that person can't even use a computer in the first place.
3) DASH gains nothing by catering to them.
4) This person has a very long list of much worse life problems that they need to sort out.

There is no excuse for being so obnoxiously clueless and lazy in this day and age. Tech is all around us, just like cars are all around us. To be incapable of changing a tire is as equally unforgivable as being unable to copy a fuckin' file from one place to another. There's a price to pay for being absurdly fuckin' dumb and lazy that results in bettering one's self. Endlessly catering to people who desperately need to step the fuck up only makes the problem worse, it robs them of that teaching moment and they stay dumb animals.

DASH gains nothing from continuing to cater to lower and lower snowflakes.

DASH needs to make itself a thing that can actually be used by catering to Vendors instead. The path DASH is on has been a benign waste of time up to now, but it's becoming self-destructive. DASH need to stop worrying about what will appease the whiny, demanding, lazy, dumb as shit snowflakes, and start catering to grown-ups who are worth a shit. Vendors.

This is just another example of trying to cater to and appease the useless fuckin' snowflakes. Even if you manage to gain the love and adoration of every idiot cryptotard snowflake out there, it gains you nothing, because they're a bunch of do-nothing cryptotard snowflakes!

When you're drawing a crowd, you need to pay attention to the content of that crowd... Doing more to draw a bigger crowd, with no regard to what that crowd is, has been crypto's problem for nigh on a decade. DASH is not immune to this. It has the killer feature, but it still lacks the brains and the guts. Evidence seen here. Again. Still.

 

[camosoul]

I agree. But even if you got Walmart and Exxon to accept your shitcoin, you also need users to use it, and they won't if it's scary complex.

The bar has been lowered way too low by the most recent generation. The tiniest thing that wouldn't have been a thought 50 years ago, is now considered an insurmountable complexity beyond the capability of mere mortals. It's fuckin' absurd.

Even in the company I run... It's embarrassing to me that I can actually make money doing what I do. It's fuckin' stupid! It's the wort of thing that any child could do for themselves 50 years ago, but today, grown adults find themselves baffled (no pun intended) and confused... Does anyone even get that pun? Any idea why it's kinda funny that I said that? This is why humor is dead; it requires a brain.

There is no substitute for stepping the fuck up.

Angels, nay. Icarus. They're way to fucking arrogant. They think DASH is so fucking powerful that they get to dictate reality. I want them to come back down to Earth before their wings melt and they learn the hard way that reality answers to no man. this project has the key, and it's too fucking important to let it collapse in hubris. Being loved by the snowflakes is a VERY BAD OMEN. These people have never had yes men before, and they don't realize that the yes men they're catering to are complete losers...

 

[TanteStefana]

Camo, I have to disagree. Dash has everything to gain by catering to the snowflakes on the ground Just look at Paypal's new payment system. They made it easier by one click, and their adoption is through the roof. People want ease of use, period. And I'm one of the dashers who wants mass adoption on the scale of the USD. Maybe that sounds silly, but to me, that's how we're going to take back our world from over reaching governments - which is my idealistic dream.

It works fine for you now, and frankly, I can live with the way Dash works now, but most people will hate it. Without mass adoption, merchants won't want to bother with it. Only gung ho crypto enthusiastic small businesses will ever touch the stuff. That's just not good enough.

I was sure we needed merchant tools and outreach now, but after listening to Ryan Taylor, he has a grasp of how adoption works, and I trust in his vision. So I have my own little low level plan to spread the word, but after hearing Ryan, I'm just waiting until Dash is actually ready. And it's not. None of these cryptos are ready for adoption. Trying to get big business to adopt Dash right now would be like treading water. And they're not in the business of investment, they're in the business of selling things, and they don't care about anything except their customers and keeping their expenses as low as possible. There is practically no volume to be gained by adding cryptocurrency to their payment options. Not at this time.

 

[TanteStefana]

The bar has been lowered way too low by the most recent generation. The tiniest thing that wouldn't have been a thought 50 years ago, is now considered an insurmountable complexity beyond the capability of mere mortals. It's fuckin' absurd.

Even in the company I run... It's embarrassing to me that I can actually make money doing what I do. It's fuckin' stupid! It's the wort of thing that any child could do for themselves 50 years ago, but today, grown adults find themselves baffled (no pun intended) and confused... Does anyone even get that pun? Any idea why it's kinda funny that I said that? This is why humor is dead; it requires a brain.

There is no substitute for stepping the fuck up.

Angels, nay. Icarus. They're way to fucking arrogant. They think DASH is so fucking powerful that they get to dictate reality. I want them to come back down to Earth before their wings melt and they learn the hard way that reality answers to no man. this project has the key, and it's too fucking important to let it collapse in hubris. Being loved by the snowflakes is a VERY BAD OMEN.

Oh god, you sound like my husband! LOL.

Personally, I think making people responsible for the safety of their own money, which crypto requires, is going to be a fucking Mt. Everest to climb. You may hate the snowflakes, and I can't say that I blame you, but they are a necessary, an obligatory entity for Dash to succeed. I have no doubt in my mind. They are the fattest / by far the largest section of the bell curve. They cannot be ignored no matter how much they insult your senses. I know you hate it. But camo, businesses don't live deep in the forest of self sufficiency like you do! They want to sell to those unwashed masses because they want to make money, and we want them to use Dash to do so. I envy you getting to be a hermit. I wish I could! I don't like these people all around me, they're so shallow, fucking worrying about the dead squirrel on the street, wanting to create some kind of squirrel safety net, seriously! And one wonders why I cringe at the thought of talking to a neighbor!!! But fuck yah, get them using Dash!

 

[camosoul]

You may think that the warning label on your hair dryer that tells you not to use it in the shower, is stupid. But you're wrong. What's really stupid is a waterproof hair dryer. Exactly how do you dry your hair while it's under water?

If all you ever do is reach down, you end up reaching for people who see no use for it. If you showed a cat the cure for cancer, it wouldn't care. If you target people who are too stupid to understand the thing, what good will it ever bring? I meet people on a daily basis who see nothing wrong with printing more money and just giving it to poor lazy baby factories. They can't comprehend things like inflation and earned value. These people will NEVER use DASH. Trying to court them is a waste of time. Explain math to a cat and it'll just walk away. They're feral savages and they're a waste of time. DASH needs to focus on people that bring value, not those that squander it.

Casting pearls before swine will accomplish nothing. Ryan is wrong. Period.

 

[TanteStefana]

Well then we disagree. I hope it's not a project killer for you, and that we can keep Dash up to your standards in other areas??