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Pre-Proposal: Ride with Dash

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ddpunk

ddpunk

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Hi guys,

My name is Maciej Krasowski (https://www.linkedin.com/in/maciejkrasowski/ | https://fb.com/ddpunk). I come from Poland, city of Lodz. My background is programming (Ruby / Javascript). Since 2014 I am running a software development company called BinarApps (www.binarapps.com | https://clutch.co/profile/binarapps). During last 4 years we've successfully participated in more than 60 web and mobile projects serving our programming services, project management and product design skills. We are now 50 people working from one office, working with clients from around the world (eg. Poland, USA, Canada, Switzerland, Norway, Israel, Ireland).
Recently with the help of friends from this community from Poland, we are working on a new coin based on Dash. I am managing all teams involved. Also we've been sharing some words about Dash during Dublin meetup (https://www.meetup.com/Dublin-Busin...ng-Meetup/events/244657679/?eventId=244657679). Privately I am the fan of blockchain and Dash.

This post is an explanation of my thoughts and ask for your opinion.
I am thinking for some time how to help with our services to make Dash the first choice of instant payments. Once we've created a proof of concept of PoS on Bitcoin using RaspberryPi set for our client. The problem - we all know - time of getting transfer confirmations is too long, so it eliminates Bitcoin. Dash is perfect for it, especially with InstantSend payments. I am thinking now of making MVP app for mobile devices, that could use InstantSend and be used as a PoS for merchants. I tried to find if something is happening in that matter here on the forum, but found no particular general app.
Base app is kind of easy to create with the basics features like numpad, calculations, generating QR code and showing the results of the transfer.

From what I know, Dash community is trying to get into as much users as possible, as every day users are most welcome. So I started looking for the best niche / market to start implementing it. Then I realized, traveling by taxi, that this kind of app would be perfect for them. I started doing private asking while traveling each time. It appears that taxi and uber drivers, who are familiar with cryptocurrencies, are eager to use it. My idea grown to a bigger picture that might help achieve what is expected for Dash: to be the first choice currency to pay small amounts for services and products. Easy, fast and non-problematic. I imagine couple of stages of making this idea happen, where the final result would be "Drive with Dash" mark.

  1. Creation of PoS system for the merchants (basics to be used by merchants on their mobile/tablet devices)
  2. Creation of a wallet for clients (we do have experience with copay. I saw one project accepted by the Governance in April this year, still not delivered (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hd-wallet-project.14628/). I was thinking of proposing this one, as I am sure we are enough experienced to face it, but then I noticed DashEvo team is working on it already - can't wait to see the results :) )
  3. MAIN: Creation of Dash oriented service for carpooling / taxi and developing apps for both drivers and clients based on PoS and wallet apps created before. This is the biggest part where centralized system for managing orders and maps should be created (unless there is a way to build this one on a decentralized Dash network (TBD)). Centralized system could provide just a contract feature, which could have locations info (active drivers with their price for km, active asks). All of this would be listed with API on maps on the devices. All calculations could be done using third party maps APIs (like preferred path for taxi which could give number of km, then final price). A lot of time and work would go to marketing and putting this systems to the people. On this point I wanted to create a seperate team responsible only for this product - devs, managers, marketing, pr.
The result. You may imagine different results for this like:
  • uber-like services from drivers who want to earn some extra money
  • fulltime uber-like drivers with "Drive with Dash" logo on their cars
  • taxi drivers who accept Dash payments
  • carsharing systems with dash payments similar to pay-as-you-go systems
  • carpooling systems like blablacar
  • transport services with Dash
  • rickshaw in the city centres
  • gondolas in Venice :)
  • etc.
The main profit from this for Dash would be gathering new users. Even if people are familiar with crypto, it is Bitcoin mostly. This could be a good way of showing to the people the real value of Dash advantages.

All of this would be middleman commision-free. Only the servers for centralized system would have to be somehow paid (TBD).

I am happy to arrange our time to create PoS app to show the intent for this idea and to make me more trustworthy to the community, as I understand I am a new guy with couple of posts on this forum.

Please, share with me your thoughts. All comments, ideas, suggestions, tech proposals appreciated. What do you think about the idea? It this kind of the idea that could be funded by the Dash Governance? Which part is worth discussing in your opinion? How should I approach to the final proposal then? Should it be divided into stages? Or should I drop it?

We are always trying to be as much transparent to our clients as possible. I would love to make this proposal and delivering the results maximum transparent to you too.
 
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How do you see this as different / better than Swarm City?

If you're open to other ideas, I would dearly love to see a wechat-like service for dash. We just had a proposal for a messenger app but it's failing, I think because the valuation for the company was all wrong. Maybe you could make a wechat-like app with an uber-like plugin?
 
Hey! Thanks for the reply.

GrandMasterDash said:
We just had a proposal for a messenger app but it's failing
Click to expand...

Could you please share the link to your proposal? I'd love to understand more.


GrandMasterDash said:
How do you see this as different / better than Swarm City?
Click to expand...

I think it doesn't have to be better than Swarm City. There is even more taxi oriented token planned to be released soon: https://www.cryder.io/. My thinking is slight different here. It supposed to be "drive easily with Dash", not "yet another uber - but with crypto".

The idea is to fill the niche, that suits to Dash vision perfectly. If you think about the niches where PoSs may be used, taxi / uber environment is the best environment to test the value of Dash. There are many many post here about "how to make it first choice coin for micropayments". Community says, that Dash could prepare TV ads, even on suberbowl, to tell people about itself. There is a post about paying to the merchans for using Dash. Yeah. OK. But still, it does not give you true devoted user. Actually Dash is a choice for people who see $ in it, not the VALUE it gives. Recent valuation makes it better for Dash. But they own Dash to play on exchanges. What we want to achieve is to make Dash THE coin, which is a synonym of instant payments everywhere, starting from taxi / carpooling industry.

What I proposed is not a new blockchain. It is a tool to make Dash accessible to a humans everyday. Of course we could use Ethereum with smart contracts. But the goal is to put Dash where it belongs to - instant payments. To do so, I want to choose the market (taxi), give tools (apps) to the people. It will move forward by itself with the "word of mouth", with the help of marketing and help of Dash community.

The main goal is not to have "Drive with Dash" logo on the side of the car. It is a part of it, "nice to have".
The main goal is to cause an avalanche, to set fire to the fuse :) To give it to the people and let them use it, let them live next to it.
 
ddpunk said:
Hey! Thanks for the reply.



Could you please share the link to your proposal? I'd love to understand more.




I think it doesn't have to be better than Swarm City. There is even more taxi oriented token planned to be released soon: https://www.cryder.io/. My thinking is slight different here. It supposed to be "drive easily with Dash", not "yet another uber - but with crypto".

The idea is to fill the niche, that suits to Dash vision perfectly. If you think about the niches where PoSs may be used, taxi / uber environment is the best environment to test the value of Dash. There are many many post here about "how to make it first choice coin for micropayments". Community says, that Dash could prepare TV ads, even on suberbowl, to tell people about itself. There is a post about paying to the merchans for using Dash. Yeah. OK. But still, it does not give you true devoted user. Actually Dash is a choice for people who see $ in it, not the VALUE it gives. Recent valuation makes it better for Dash. But they own Dash to play on exchanges. What we want to achieve is to make Dash THE coin, which is a synonym of instant payments everywhere, starting from taxi / carpooling industry.

What I proposed is not a new blockchain. It is a tool to make Dash accessible to a humans everyday. Of course we could use Ethereum with smart contracts. But the goal is to put Dash where it belongs to - instant payments. To do so, I want to choose the market (taxi), give tools (apps) to the people. It will move forward by itself with the "word of mouth", with the help of marketing and help of Dash community.

The main goal is not to have "Drive with Dash" logo on the side of the car. It is a part of it, "nice to have".
The main goal is to cause an avalanche, to set fire to the fuse :) To give it to the people and let them use it, let them live next to it.
Click to expand...

"We" meant dash, it's not my proposal.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DappDapp-Dash-Messaging-Eco-System

and

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-dash-messaging-eco-system.17790/

I agree with you regarding real world usage. One of the main criticisms I hear about dash is low volume.

I would like to see you develop your ideas (especially as a plugin, as discuss above).
 
ddpunk said:
Hi guys,

My name is Maciej Krasowski (https://www.linkedin.com/in/maciejkrasowski/ | https://fb.com/ddpunk). I come from Poland, city of Lodz. My background is programming (Ruby / Javascript). Since 2014 I am running a software development company called BinarApps (www.binarapps.com | https://clutch.co/profile/binarapps). During last 4 years we've successfully participated in more than 60 web and mobile projects serving our programming services, project management and product design skills. We are now 50 people working from one office, working with clients from around the world (eg. Poland, USA, Canada, Switzerland, Norway, Israel, Ireland).
Recently with the help of friends from this community from Poland, we are working on a new coin based on Dash. I am managing all teams involved. Also we've been sharing some words about Dash during Dublin meetup (https://www.meetup.com/Dublin-Busin...ng-Meetup/events/244657679/?eventId=244657679). Privately I am the fan of blockchain and Dash.

This post is an explanation of my thoughts and ask for your opinion.
I am thinking for some time how to help with our services to make Dash the first choice of instant payments. Once we've created a proof of concept of PoS on Bitcoin using RaspberryPi set for our client. The problem - we all know - time of getting transfer confirmations is too long, so it eliminates Bitcoin. Dash is perfect for it, especially with InstantSend payments. I am thinking now of making MVP app for mobile devices, that could use InstantSend and be used as a PoS for merchants. I tried to find if something is happening in that matter here on the forum, but found no particular general app.
Base app is kind of easy to create with the basics features like numpad, calculations, generating QR code and showing the results of the transfer.

From what I know, Dash community is trying to get into as much users as possible, as every day users are most welcome. So I started looking for the best niche / market to start implementing it. Then I realized, traveling by taxi, that this kind of app would be perfect for them. I started doing private asking while traveling each time. It appears that taxi and uber drivers, who are familiar with cryptocurrencies, are eager to use it. My idea grown to a bigger picture that might help achieve what is expected for Dash: to be the first choice currency to pay small amounts for services and products. Easy, fast and non-problematic. I imagine couple of stages of making this idea happen, where the final result would be "Drive with Dash" mark.

  1. Creation of PoS system for the merchants (basics to be used by merchants on their mobile/tablet devices)
  2. Creation of a wallet for clients (we do have experience with copay. I saw one project accepted by the Governance in April this year, still not delivered (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hd-wallet-project.14628/). I was thinking of proposing this one, as I am sure we are enough experienced to face it, but then I noticed DashEvo team is working on it already - can't wait to see the results :) )
  3. MAIN: Creation of Dash oriented service for carpooling / taxi and developing apps for both drivers and clients based on PoS and wallet apps created before. This is the biggest part where centralized system for managing orders and maps should be created (unless there is a way to build this one on a decentralized Dash network (TBD)). Centralized system could provide just a contract feature, which could have locations info (active drivers with their price for km, active asks). All of this would be listed with API on maps on the devices. All calculations could be done using third party maps APIs (like preferred path for taxi which could give number of km, then final price). A lot of time and work would go to marketing and putting this systems to the people. On this point I wanted to create a seperate team responsible only for this product - devs, managers, marketing, pr.
The result. You may imagine different results for this like:
  • uber-like services from drivers who want to earn some extra money
  • fulltime uber-like drivers with "Drive with Dash" logo on their cars
  • taxi drivers who accept Dash payments
  • carsharing systems with dash payments similar to pay-as-you-go systems
  • carpooling systems like blablacar
  • transport services with Dash
  • rickshaw in the city centres
  • gondolas in Venice :)
  • etc.
The main profit from this for Dash would be gathering new users. Even if people are familiar with crypto, it is Bitcoin mostly. This could be a good way of showing to the people the real value of Dash advantages.

All of this would be middleman commision-free. Only the servers for centralized system would have to be somehow paid (TBD).

I am happy to arrange our time to create PoS app to show the intent for this idea and to make me more trustworthy to the community, as I understand I am a new guy with couple of posts on this forum.

Please, share with me your thoughts. All comments, ideas, suggestions, tech proposals appreciated. What do you think about the idea? It this kind of the idea that could be funded by the Dash Governance? Which part is worth discussing in your opinion? How should I approach to the final proposal then? Should it be divided into stages? Or should I drop it?

We are always trying to be as much transparent to our clients as possible. I would love to make this proposal and delivering the results maximum transparent to you too.
Click to expand...


This is fantastic if you can make it happen , i was waiting for such ideas coming on top of dash basically , but heres the deal , if this software is decentralised completely then there are host of problems to solve , how do you intend to solve them ??

if its not decentralised let me know why you think we can beat uber ?
 
Dashmaximalist said:
but heres the deal , if this software is decentralised completely then there are host of problems to solve , how do you intend to solve them ??
Click to expand...
You're right. As I wrote, there would have to be a centralized system to manage locations, prices, offers list or asks. That would be a seperate system to manage it. I can't find right now the way to make it decentralized. I see it as a seperate service to support the idea for now, while Dash does not support it yet. It would be easier with smart contracts type of features, then it would be totally decentralized. To minimize centralization problem, I am thinking of building simple app with API, that stores this info and shares it with mobile / web apps, but in totally "no login and password" way. Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe when it become successful, Dash community decides to add new big feature that allow to move the app to Dash in 100%?
What's your idea on this? Maybe there is something to be used that I am missing?

Dashmaximalist said:
if its not decentralised let me know why you think we can beat uber ?
Click to expand...
I think we should not take "beating uber" as a goal. Business factor is important, but not crucial for now. I would rather think about it as "throwing bait and see what happens". It may go pretty well and it may grow to the stage, where competing with uber could be a goal. At the start, the goal would be to put interest, put tools and try it. Tools still can be re-used (like 1st stage PoSs apps - opensource).

In my opinion, we as a community, should do something to gather the attention of PoSs users, merchants. I am thinking the guys behind the wheels are the perfect fit. You don't have to pay them for using it. You don't have to pay for ads, because they talk - either it is drivers community or a conversation with passengers during the drive. It is a perfect environment to test word of mouth marketing which shows Dash to the people, the reason to use it and what is it built for.
 
For me, the single biggest problem to overcome with ride-sharing services is passenger safety. I can't imagine a project like this working in isolation. We'd have to find a suitable (and existing) reputation system.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
For me, the single biggest problem to overcome with ride-sharing services is passenger safety. I can't imagine a project like this working in isolation. We'd have to find a suitable (and existing) reputation system.
Click to expand...
decentralised reputation is the holy grail of ride sharing , do any one have a real solution at all , if so i think we should absolutely fund the same for dash
 
To be fair, @ddpunk recognizes there is a need for some centralization, at least to be begin with.

I'm wondering, if it's workable for Maciej to setup a ride-sharing company, dash helps to fund it's development (including licensing and DBS checks). In return, dash takes a 40% stake in the company, coming down to 35% if he meets certain goals.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
I'm wondering, if it's workable for Maciej to setup a ride-sharing company, dash helps to fund it's development (including licensing and DBS checks). In return, dash takes a 40% stake in the company, coming down to 35% if he meets certain goals.
Click to expand...
To be honest I wasn't aware Dash may want to participate in any kind of businesses having shares :) Haven't thought about it. But if it's a deal, then deal. The thing is I wasn't thinking about setting the ride-sharing company myself. I was thinking about having this working by itself with help of Dash funding the centralized part from time to time. At least for the beginning. If it works, then thinking about setting a company to wrap more functionalities up.

GrandMasterDash said:
For me, the single biggest problem to overcome with ride-sharing services is passenger safety. I can't imagine a project like this working in isolation. We'd have to find a suitable (and existing) reputation system.
Click to expand...
Dashmaximalist said:
decentralised reputation is the holy grail of ride sharing , do any one have a real solution at all , if so i think we should absolutely fund the same for dash
Click to expand...

I must add, that when I was working on this idea, I took two main things as a crucial ones: 1. dash fast instantsend transfers, 2. privacy of the decentralized blockchain. I am aware that the issue is reputation system, which refers to safety naturally. I just assumed good will of people using this system. You are right that reputation system would help, but there is no way of keeping privacy factor on the table then. At least not for the drivers. You can try to figure out how to store 1-5 point as a rating without the central system (the idea below), but if it comes to safety of the passengers, there has to be central system of having drivers checked.

So I am thinking of two ways of building this idea up, each of them has pros and cons.

1. More privacy, less safety
Isolated system, put to the public and working by its own life (my first choice). Here we would have to use some centralized services to store some info, like active asks at least. Here is the scenario:
Client needs a ride. He opens a client app, type the destination location and accepts. At this point new data goes to the server with his location. Database contains only active asks. Driver may view them in his app. Having "price for 1 km" set up, he picks the new ask up, and send his data as "willing to make the services". He sends back data about the price and his location. Client sees it and accepts it. At this point all info is stored on the devices, data may be deleted from the cloud database. The api from this server is opened, everyone can see "active asks". The end of scenario. The simplest one.
Of course you could make more additional features and put more info, but the less it is, the more privacy is protected.
Reputation: There is a way of building in a reputation system for drivers using blockchain and not store it in DB. Lets say, during the payment, client may check stars from 1 to 5. From the backend perspective, this could be a additional transfer to a dedicated "reputation" address. 0,00000001 - 0,00000005. It has to go to the same address every time. Having this system could send an average reputation point by diving balance by number of transfers. It would give reputation eg. 4,78. Of course there is a problem of driver sending dashes there by his own. There are more limitations though like having no way to store reputation of the client.

2. Safer, but no privacy (at least for the drivers)
In this case we would have to build centralized ecosystem to manage all features except payments. This one need to have a company registered with all licensing and DBS checks. At this point, each driver would have to authorize himself. This way the system is closer to Uber, but with Dash payments. The issue is that this company have to earn money to be living, so fees are mandatory to be included into payments.

My idea was build it more opened, social, trust-between-humans-based. I was going for point 1. At least for the first stage.

Of course, we could just go to Uber and ask them to accept Dash payments :) Joking ;)
There is no way big corpos will accept Dash (or other crypto) until they realize they are too behind the revolution. To make them realize it, Dash has to got to the people by its own in my opinion.
 
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@ddpunk If you're not interested in the company / equity thing, that's fine, I was just throwing it out there. I suggested it because dash will soon be able to make equity arrangements and I'm curious to see it in action, though it's completely untested.

Personally, I would prefer the more centralized uber-like approach, because a serious breach of trust with riders would have significant impact on dash as a whole. Yes, we can experiment with various parts but not with passenger safety.

I know I'm banging on about this but, if this was a plugin to a messenger-like service, it would allow the rider to share live updates (location and ETA), in frame, while simultaneously communicating with people in their contact list.
 
Thanks for your comments guys. I must admin I can't imagine the plugin to a messenger solves the problem and the needs Dash has. We need to go to the people, so they need to have a simple tools to use dash. The plugin would be used only by kind of the tech part of humans. Or am I wrong?

Could you please suggest how should I manage proposing this idea to the Governance? I understand, according to "8 steps to a Successful Proposal" thread, it is better to divide it into phases. My team is currently working on building PoS app to prove our skills and veracity. So maybe I could start from proposing this project? Then move with the idea in further proposals? How do you see it guys?
 
ddpunk said:
Thanks for your comments guys. I must admin I can't imagine the plugin to a messenger solves the problem and the needs Dash has. We need to go to the people, so they need to have a simple tools to use dash. The plugin would be used only by kind of the tech part of humans. Or am I wrong?

Could you please suggest how should I manage proposing this idea to the Governance? I understand, according to "8 steps to a Successful Proposal" thread, it is better to divide it into phases. My team is currently working on building PoS app to prove our skills and veracity. So maybe I could start from proposing this project? Then move with the idea in further proposals? How do you see it guys?
Click to expand...

I was imagining a messenger app with your uber-like service pre-installed and tightly integrated. It would feel like one app but additional services could be added later.
 
Hi Maciej, we share the same idea of using DASH for daily transactions from buying bread to riding a cab, and I've studied the pain points for crypto adoption by mere mortals as they are instant transactions (DASH is the only one doing it) low volatility (USD-Tether) and local currency adoption via tokens (Ether tokens). So I am starting an ambitious project to create DASH tokens for all fiat currencies of the world and a worldwide Vanity Number System (VNS) so people can send DASH tokens to any person/merchant/website in the world by simply typing in a phone number and sending money instantly, frictionless, easily.

I hope the idea gains more acceptance since the crypto world moves so fast we can't even blink or we'd miss the train. Only one coin will be the world leader in digital commerce and DASH is positioned to be the one. I hope we don't miss this huge opportunity.
 
ddpunk said:
What do you think about this one? http://libretaxi.org/ Is it something thats on your mind? They have a "bitcoin integration" point in the roadmap.
Click to expand...

I've not looked into it but yes, it looks interesting. Again though, my number one concern is passenger safety.

I realize you may not be up for this but personally, once the Dash Distributed API is live, I would very much like to see a Dash Core2, developing an alternative to Evolution, perhaps with an instant messenger interface. Such idea would need to go way beyond ride sharing.

Just saying.
 
ddpunk said:
I must add, that when I was working on this idea, I took two main things as a crucial ones: 1. dash fast instantsend transfers, 2. privacy of the decentralized blockchain. I am aware that the issue is reputation system, which refers to safety naturally. I just assumed good will of people using this system. You are right that reputation system would help, but there is no way of keeping privacy factor on the table then. At least not for the drivers. You can try to figure out how to store 1-5 point as a rating without the central system (the idea below), but if it comes to safety of the passengers, there has to be central system of having drivers checked.
Click to expand...

Of course not! You may store passengers' ratings in a blockchain, so you can have a decentralized rating system! Read here.

Furthemore the drivers may be identified and rated by the hash value of the driver's license number when added to the car's driving plate number. So the driver's and the car's privacy will be somehow protected, especially in the case the driver drives a car that is not classified by the state as his car.

The passenger could calculate the hash value just before entering the car. He can see the car's plate, he could ask to see the driver's license number, and both values could be send to his phone number wirelesly in order for the hash value to be calculated. Then he could see the ratings the hash value received, and judge whether he wants to enter the car or not.

This assures passenger safety, doesn't it? I mean you may not enter the car if the hash value of the driver has low ratings, or no ratings at all.

What do you think about it, @GrandMasterDash ?
 
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demo said:
Of course not! You may store passengers' ratings in a blockchain, so you can have a decentralized rating system! Read here.

Furthemore the drivers may be identified and rated by the hash value of the driver's license number when added to the car's driving plate number. So the driver's and the car's privacy will be somehow protected, especially in the case the driver drives a car that is not classified by the state as his car.

The passenger could calculate the hash value just before entering the car. He can see the car's plate, he could ask to see the driver's license number, and both values could be send to his phone number wirelesly in order for the hash value to be calculated. Then he could see the ratings the hash value received, and judge whether he wants to enter the car or not.

This assures passenger safety, doesn't it? I mean you may not enter the car if the hash value of the driver has low ratings, or no ratings at all.

What do you think about it, @GrandMasterDash ?
Click to expand...

I'm far from an expert on reputation systems, quite uninformed actually. But I think the best approach would be to first decide how centralized / decentralized he wants it, and then go and find an existing token that is actively working on it and matches his needs. No point re-inventing the wheel unless it's clearly superior.

Having said that, if this was to become a Core2 project, I would favor an open and decentralized system.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
I'm far from an expert on reputation systems, quite uninformed actually. But I think the best approach would be to first decide how centralized / decentralized he wants it, and then go and find an existing token that is actively working on it and matches his needs. No point re-inventing the wheel unless it's clearly superior.
Having said that, if this was to become a Core2 project, I would favor an open and decentralized system.
Click to expand...
What I just proposed is inventing the wheel, not re-inventing it. I posted this idea in this forum, under the GPL license, so that no-one can patent it.

I bet that what I just proposed is not yet implemented, anywhere in the world. Do you bet?
 
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GrandMasterDash said:
To be fair, @ddpunk recognizes there is a need for some centralization, at least to be begin with.

I'm wondering, if it's workable for Maciej to setup a ride-sharing company, dash helps to fund it's development (including licensing and DBS checks). In return, dash takes a 40% stake in the company, coming down to 35% if he meets certain goals.
Click to expand...
Please read our pre-proposal dash cycling Africa and let us know what you think
 
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