• Forum has been upgraded, all links, images, etc are as they were. Please see Official Announcements for more information

Budget Proposal - Proof of Labour

Do you find relevant thos proposal?

  • I think it has nothing to do with Dash

    Votes: 7 28.0%

  • I think it is an interesting idea, but too complicated and unfeasible

    Votes: 2 8.0%

  • I see it as a very good idea, but I need to clarify some doubts

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Excellent proposal, I would finance it!

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
victorbx said:
in other words...
You want to transform Dash to Counterparty or Mastercoin...

leave it Digital Cash IMHO
this is our niche
Click to expand...
Hello
#1 It is a proposal. Is up to the masternodes in what dash will become.
(The essence of decentralized systems is that there are no dictators).
#2 Couterparty or Mastercoin do not create flow money, as the proposed flow scrip contract will.
#3 As far as I know (May be wrong) there isn't any option to create your own money from a "credit line" in any cryptocurrency.
The only way today to really create money in cryptocurrency market is through POW minery, and now (thanks to masternode paradigm) through POService.

So, IMHO it is a needed improvement. It even can improve your niche.

This is not "a cryptocurrency more" proposal or intended to compete in the niche of anyone, but to enrich the options on any platform to create money.
 
The 2nd tier opens the door to very interesting things like smart contracts and all sorts of different ways to decentralize stuff. I'm all for it. I think it could create a very valuable Dash ecosystem of apps and be a real boost for the project.

Let's not forget that the first smart contract platform, Mastercoin, now known as Omni, was created to offer an alternative to centralized exchanges that can't be shut down. At the time regulators were threatening certain exchanges with closure and account freezes. Decentralized exchanges and smart contracts is the way of the future.

BitShares set up an interesting model that gives all holders of a base coin a stake in the future projects that issue coin tokens on their platform. Perhaps this is a model worth following. Give Dash holders a stake in the future of Dash related projects.

For Digital Cash to succeed, it must have very good unregulated, unrestricted access to the market, the same way cash does. Using a built-in decentralized exchange, its own smart contracts platform is probably the way to go.
 
victorbx said:
Hi Again,
#1 it was my humble opinion, if i will see a dictator, i will shoot him myself :smile:
#2 can you please elaborate what flow money is for the low level investors like me ? ( thanks in advance )
#3 as much as i can understand Counterparty , you create your own money , you name it as you wish and you can trade it in the counterparty decentralized exchange
this money can be exchange only in the counterparty exchange.

but I may miss the point here ,
so if i am wrong , i will be more than happy to get an explanation (for dummies) and i will certainly vote yes if it will make my eyes glow...

thank you juliomoros
:smile:
Click to expand...
Ok, let's see...

#2 Flow Money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_and_flow)
Your wage is a form of flow money. Is an income which appears once per month. 12 times per year.
GDP is a form of flow money. Is how much a country produces each year.
Coins or deposits, are Stock Money.

Stock are how much exists now.
Flow is how quickly it is changing over time.

#3 Couterparty create Shares. If you have a business you may agree with your partners to create some shares in order to exchange them for PRE-existent money.
Even if you use those shares as means of exchange (money), it will be limited as a "cake piece" of your business, instead of enabling to use all the production potential of your business.
The money which is not created by Counterparty or Mastercoin are the dividends, which confers to shares the form of flow money.

For that shares beeng sold as flow money, you need some kind of escrow system to guarantee the public the payment of dividends.
And in order to do this in a trustless way, you need a smart contract.
I don't know if couterparty integrates already some smart contract system on that sense, but I think the smart contract is a very recent novely.

So, these colored coins may be used as shares, but are not real flow money. Real shares create money periodically, in form of dividends, as flow scrip are sopposed to do.

I'm trying to give the most clear explanation, but it is a tricky subject.
So if you have further questions, go on!
 
I've just skimmed through the PDF documentation of your proposal. It's probably the most solid of all proposals put forth so far. Good work guys! :cool:
 
juliomoros said:
Ok, let's see...

#2 Flow Money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_and_flow)
Your wage is a form of flow money. Is an income which appears once per month. 12 times per year.
GDP is a form of flow money. Is how much a country produces each year.
Coins or deposits, are Stock Money.

Stock are how much exists now.
Flow is how quickly it is changing over time.

#3 Couterparty create Shares. If you have a business you may agree with your partners to create some shares in order to exchange them for PRE-existent money.
Even if you use those shares as means of exchange (money), it will be limited as a "cake piece" of your business, instead of enabling to use all the production potential of your business.
The money which is not created by Counterparty or Mastercoin are the dividends, which confers to shares the form of flow money.

For that shares beeng sold as flow money, you need some kind of escrow system to guarantee the public the payment of dividends.
And in order to do this in a trustless way, you need a smart contract.
I don't know if couterparty integrates already some smart contract system on that sense, but I think the smart contract is a very recent novely.

So, these colored coins may be used as shares, but are not real flow money. Real shares create money periodically, in form of dividends, as flow scrip are sopposed to do.

I'm trying to give the most clear explanation, but it is a tricky subject.
So if you have further questions, go on!
Click to expand...

Thank you, this made it a little clearer to me, but need more. I mean, how would this work? An example would be so much help.

Would this be something that only businesses would create via issuing "stock" via, say DASH (actual coins) then issue a DASHf (Dash flow coin) at a set rate per DASH invested? Then, if they make a profit, it would be sent out as dividends via a DASHf which would have some kind of fluctuating DASH value? And if they lose money, Dash would ultimately be lost? (burned DASHf)

Would this DASHf be the same for everyone using it, or would it be based on which "stock" you purchased with your DASH? How would the DASHf be burned? I don't really get all this, but I'll keep re-reading but this isn't my forte, and am having a hard time with it :) I've asked our resident hobby economist to come here and check all this out. I hope toknormal will come by soon :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TanteStefana said:
Thank you, this made it a little clearer to me, but need more. I mean, how would this work?
Click to expand...
Ok, The system we propose works, more or less this way:

1°.- let's suppose you're a baker. The product of your labor/business is bread.
2°.- You know that in your community your bread would be well received. So you announce an offer to deliver, say 10 Kg of your delicius bread weekly, for one year.
3°.- And you launch a campaign. So, in 30 days there are enough people (a community) fans for your bread. The potential clients, giving reputation to your business.
4°.- You create a smart contract wich is validated by the most of, or all of your fans. This community is now the owner of the contract for the products offered (breads).
You have a compromise to make availabe to the community 10 Kg of bread weekly, for one year.
5°.- To warrant your fulfillment, the smart contract create a negative balance in the main address of your business wallet (Te price of all the 10 Kg of bread): CHarge Account.
To make valid your contract you give the manage of this account to another decentralized pool (A master-pool <--- the guys who randomly "verify" the transaction sales, similar like masternodes).
6°.- But as reward, you will receive the same amount of coins but with positive value, deposited in your credit account.
7°.- During the week you can use the positive coins to buy whatever you like within your community to other business with other flow scrip contracts.
8°.- Everyone who buys to you a bread, pays the price to your charge account, so positive and negative coins for that price amount dissapears.
9°.- At the end of the week, all the positive coins you haven't spent or negative coins of breads you didn't sold, are destroyed by the smart contract.
10°.- Inmediately a new amount in coins for the price of the 10 Kg of bread are created in your charge account (negative coins) and in your credit account (positive).

Your commercial activity gives you credit to your personal reputed wallet (wich is unique, and identifies you on the network)
Your reputation in your community also enhance your credit line.
So if you need money, you can create it by a "credit transaction", leaving in your wallet the negative coins.

In the system you can receive negative coins to your account, only if you authorize it.
While you have a negative balance in your personal wallet, you can not participate in investments.
But here are no interests, and no hurry to pay your debt.

As you invest in new business projects in the community you become shareholder of new business, receiving money to more credit accounts, increasing your purchase power, and your personal credit line.

This projects will only work because a digital and cheap version of banking trust accounts can be replicated bay a smart trus (a still non existent smart contract).

But once in existence these tools make you ern a lot of money. Well, not olny to you, but for everybody.

=) regards,

P.S. please excuse my misspellings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PantsOnFire said:
It is quite tricky to understand. Could you please try and ELI5 a couple of use cases
Click to expand...
Dude, I'll do my best...

take a look of my answer for TanteStefana I think is a good start point.

Then just ask me as if you were 5. Please, please... take your time!!!
(We've been working on this project by 2 years, and is the first time we plublic it)
 
Julio,

Is your work related to "The Community Labor Integrated Money Economy (CLIME)"?
 
How does a person really get credit? Do other people have to invest DASH in them? Or do they create as much as they want whenever they want? If there is nothing requiring a person to pay it back, what gives these flow coins value?
 
TanteStefana said:
How does a person really get credit? Do other people have to invest DASH in them? Or do they create as much as they want whenever they want? If there is nothing requiring a person to pay it back, what gives these flow coins value?
Click to expand...
You get the credit by the reputation or by compromising on a flow scrip contract. NO INVESTMENT NEEDED... The community CREATE THAT MONEY!!!!

Money is the outcome of an agreement. So, you don't create individually an arbitrary amount, but an amount established depending on an agreement which in this case is an exchange for breads, and the reputation this activity gives to you in your community.

Your personal debt is backed on the value of your personnal reputation, and in your ability to invest. If you don't pay, your reputation is compromised and you can not invest and get more wealth.
So, there is SOMETHING requiring a person to pay back: His own personal interests.

But te value of the coins created in the flow scrip contract are backed on the goods that are produced. That is why once delivered the products, coins are destroyed as selling / buying transactions happen.
 
TanteStefana said:
What happens if you reneged on your deal? Are there any consequences?
Click to expand...
That is why you have to be promoted your contract. You must give the comunity the ownership of the contract. If you fail, or get away there must be some collaterals. The most easy way is to execute your credits (trough an electroral pool created to that end) in favor of the community. So you get a debt, people get your money.
Other collaterals may be the community having some kind of access to your baker store.
The most of the collaterals for a contract may be accomplished with prevention.
Another kind of legal actions (a headeach) is a logistic risk, but falls beyond any cryptographyc problem.
 
juliomoros said:
First time I hear about it, sound interesting.
Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.com/Radically-Ben...nology-ebook/dp/B0178MQI1M/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

f5234062_o.png
 
Still reading through it and there's a lot good so far but personally I'd be strongly against it, it's introducing debt and I feel that would be extremely harmful to Dashes reputation. Possibly something other than debt based units, contracts to pay a sum of credit maybe (essentially the same thing) but debt based money... no.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top