A tale of two coins or how I learned to stop worrying and love good inflation

xkcd

xkcd

Well-known member
Masternode Owner/Operator
For today's discussion point I present the chart PIVX/DASH, that is PIVX taken as a ratio of Dash. The exchange is Binance. On the chart, higher prices means Pivx is doing better than Dash, while lower prices are the opposite.

Looking at the data, we can see that PIVX and Dash have been trading in a fairly tight range, please ignore the scam wicks on PIVX, the coin is highly centralised and thwart with manipulation. PIVX trades within +123% of the Dash price and -73% on average (first std dev). Pretty surprising since it is mostly just a clone of Dash with fewer merits and way more fuck ups than Dash, however, the market seems to forgive it, or at least rate those fuck ups in a similar way to how the market rates, Dash's lack of Evo :Wen_Evo: .


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In version 5.5.0 Pivx made the following upgrade. <https://github.com/PIVX-Project/PIVX/releases/tag/v5.5.0> This was 8 months ago.

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Please note the severity of the change. It was to double the rewards paid out to Stakers and MNs and a staggering 10x sent into the budget, truly Jerome Powell blushed. 😊


Returning to our chart which if you will recall is the ratio of Pivx to Dash, we observe the relative change in price of PIVX. You might expect PIVX to decrease in value on this staggering increase in inflation, but no, that is not what happened. PIVX is actually up 50% against Dash. How do you explain those apples?



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Also, as the supply increases the market cap also increases which raises the coins position on the all important coin ranking sites, as Dash is about to exit the Top 100 on CMC, we desperately need something like this. I find it interesting that if the coin is able to direct funds to where they are needed most that tokenomics can improve or at least get no worse. Dash has a problem right now, it is under funding development and marketing and also not competitive with trad-Fi which is able to offer a high reward in risk free markets (bonds).

If the community were to decide to do something similar it might look like this. Make one change to the emission and increase the amount paid to Masternodes each block, this would have the following knock on effects.

  • The MN APY would increase, potentially making buying a MN more attractive.
  • The % going to miners would be less.
  • Since the DAO is computed to the 10% of the emitted supply, it too would see an proportionate increase.
  • The market cap would increase at a faster pace assuming the price did not change.

Levels of subsidy boost for the MNs that I would suggest are 50%, %100 and 200%.

The current split is:
Miner: 38.07%
MN: 51.93%
DAO: 10%

If we double the MN rewards, they become 2.66536184 and miners still get 0.9769914 which would put 6724 Dash into the DAO each month up from 4264 Dash, or an increase of 57%.

The new split would become then,
Miner: 24%
MN: 66%
DAO: 10%

You will notice this also 'fixes' another issue Dash has currently, which is that it is paying too much for its POW.
 
The assertion that Dash is competing with tradfi is totally unfounded. Dash is competing (and failing) against crypto.

MNOs are not the end user of the dash ecosystem. Dash tokenomics should serve dash users not the parasitic Masternode operators.

These half-baked solutions are bad.
 
TheNetworkIsBiggerThanYou said:
The assertion that Dash is competing with tradfi is totally unfounded. Dash is competing (and failing) against crypto.
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It is though, I stopped buying Dash also and keep money in bank earning risk free yield. Check the price if it is not clear to you.
 
Seems like everyone is talking that DASH needs changes and ... well, that's it. This idea is worth trying but someone has to push it through - at least for MNs to decide during voting. Since some time I've been lurking and watching what's going on in DASH community and the only thing I've noticed are endless discussions, nothing ever comes out of it. Community seems as impotent as Ryan was during his last years as CEO, so basically we earned hard the position we're in.

In my opinion no change is much worse than bad change. If we try to different things (inevitably making mistakes on the way) finally something will work out for DASH. The other alternative is just to sit and watch how DASH is sliding into oblivion, hoping that Neverlution will save us (spoiler alert: it won't).

There were few interesting ideas that were quite heavily discussed in the community but died slowly with time (just like DASH is now). For eg. denomination to increase our marketcap. Seems like everyone is afraid of these few people shouting each time: "If you ever touch DASH tokenomics I'm out", "If you ever decrease miners rewards I'm out" etc. Well - I hope that DASH got to so bad shape that no one gives a sh.t about these voices anymore - changes are needed and they are needed now.

I'm all for decreasing significantly miners rewards (not like during Ryan's times) and increasing significantly MNs revenue and DCG budget. I'm also for increasing marketcap by eg. something similar to stock split.

Now - for the voices "why won't you put a proposal then, why won't you do it yourself ?". I'm not really that knowledgeable to do it and probably not the best person for this role, but in the really worst case - if there is no one smart enough in the community willing at least try to drag DASH out of it's misery I can create a sketch proposal on the forum for amendments of more experienced. Maybe even submitting a proposal - just to see if DASH community really is in coma. For now it seems like no one wants to take any risk and MNs are fine were the projects is going.
 
BoomStick said:
Seems like everyone is talking that DASH needs changes and ... well, that's it. This idea is worth trying but someone has to push it through - at least for MNs to decide during voting. Since some time I've been lurking and watching what's going on in DASH community and the only thing I've noticed are endless discussions, nothing ever comes out of it. Community seems as impotent as Ryan was during his last years as CEO, so basically we earned hard the position we're in.

In my opinion no change is much worse than bad change. If we try to different things (inevitably making mistakes on the way) finally something will work out for DASH. The other alternative is just to sit and watch how DASH is sliding into oblivion, hoping that Neverlution will save us (spoiler alert: it won't).

There were few interesting ideas that were quite heavily discussed in the community but died slowly with time (just like DASH is now). For eg. denomination to increase our marketcap. Seems like everyone is afraid of these few people shouting each time: "If you ever touch DASH tokenomics I'm out", "If you ever decrease miners rewards I'm out" etc. Well - I hope that DASH got to so bad shape that no one gives a sh.t about these voices anymore - changes are needed and they are needed now.

I'm all for decreasing significantly miners rewards (not like during Ryan's times) and increasing significantly MNs revenue and DCG budget. I'm also for increasing marketcap by eg. something similar to stock split.

Now - for the voices "why won't you put a proposal then, why won't you do it yourself ?". I'm not really that knowledgeable to do it and probably not the best person for this role, but in the really worst case - if there is no one smart enough in the community willing at least try to drag DASH out of it's misery I can create a sketch proposal on the forum for amendments of more experienced. Maybe even submitting a proposal - just to see if DASH community really is in coma. For now it seems like no one wants to take any risk and MNs are fine were the projects is going.
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I've proposed a change that is more meaningful and solves many problems the network is experiencing: https://www.dash.org/forum/index.ph...-end-of-each-treasury-cycle.53933/post-235602
 
Block rewards should be a round number. How does Dashcore mix a 1.332xxx Dash MNO reward? A 50% hike in MNO payouts is almost 2 Dash on the button, that is an easy mix if we make the number round, this mathematical complexity in MNO rewards does not help Coinjoin. MNOs just end up with a lot of leftover toxic dust they have to guard against accidentally spendling.
 
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TheNetworkIsBiggerThanYou said:
Why aren't people flocking to dash?
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So many reasons,
  • Poor chart.
  • High trustless yield in TradFi these days.
  • Uncertainty around the future of the core team.
  • Evo delays, fuck ups, lies? #wenevo.
  • X and Paypal going to war in the payments space.
That last one only emerged in the last week or so, but it is clear that Musk wants to turn 'X' (Twitter) into what he wanted Paypal to be, the strong push for KYC is a move to transform the platform into some kind of WeChat knockoff, meanwhile Paypal is not sitting by waiting to go extinct and they are fighting back with a deeper move into Crypto and the PYUSD which will allow them to run payments over the Ethereum network. This is all very bad for Dash since our primary focus has been payments, we've made little inroads and now we are about to be schooled by the legacy super corps.
 
I'd argue the reason is because the tokenomics of the projects are fucked. This can be addressed by using MN capital for liquidity in DEFI that enables 1x shorting Dash (stable prices without the need for a stablecoin). This would elevate Dash above any cyrpto project that is attempting to be digital cash (i.e the people Dash are actually competing with)
 
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